Using mobiles when driving.

[Domh245]

It's slowing down the response times; most drivers round here don't seem to use their eyes and only get out of the way when ( if! ) the siren does eventually go on. It is certainly resulting in considerably more near-misses with the pedestrian texting zombies nearly stepping out in front of ambulances ( ironically ).

I wonder how those who complain about the sirens would feel if they themselves had to summon help and it took a minute or two longer to arrive because the vehicle was running on the lights only for most of the way?

On a similar note, the unmarked cars definitely do need sirens (and seem to always have them one when on business). I head the sirens a good amount of time before I saw a black BMW emerge from a side street with tiny flashing lights in it's grille when I was driving around the other day.

 

[90019]

That was probably a CID car rather than a proper unmarked traffic car, which would be lit up like a christmas tree when on blues and twos, whereas CID tend to just have grill strobes and a siren.

 

[ralphchadkirk]

That was probably a CID car rather than a proper unmarked traffic car, which would be lit up like a christmas tree when on blues and twos, whereas CID tend to just have grill strobes and a siren.

Or it wasn't anything to do with the police at all!
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It's slowing down the response times; most drivers round here don't seem to use their eyes and only get out of the way when ( if! ) the siren does eventually go on. It is certainly resulting in considerably more near-misses with the pedestrian texting zombies nearly stepping out in front of ambulances ( ironically ).

That sounds to me like an issue with their driving. Organisational policy shouldn't stop them from driving safely, which surely includes using audible warnings in enough time to allow people to react.

 

[47802]

It would help if all new cars had built in hands free as standard unfortunately there are still lower end models of small hatchbacks which don't have hands free as standard.

My car has it built in but obviously a lot of older cars don't and it is a pain.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

That sounds to me like an issue with their driving. Organisational policy shouldn't stop them from driving safely, which surely includes using audible warnings in enough time to allow people to react.

Ideally they should have the sirens on at all times when the blue lights are on - except if it's police on a "silent approach" because the suspects are still on the premises, obviously.

 

[Antman]

Ideally they should have the sirens on at all times when the blue lights are on - except if it's police on a "silent approach" because the suspects are still on the premises, obviously.

Even at 3am when the roads are empty?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Well, not if the roads are empty - you got me there!

Epsom is generally gridlocked all day every day through the day, though, and yet this is when they often use the siren in short bursts if at all.

I fear we are getting a bit off topic now though; so getting back to the subject of mobiles:

A question for JonMorris: Although active blocking devices are illegal, out of curiosity is passive blocking of mobile phone and GPS signals allowed or is that illegal to? As in a deliberate screen to prevent the signals getting through?

 

[jon0844]

It wouldn't be illegal to construct the vehicle in such a way that a signal couldn't get in. Many buildings are like this. Or indeed trains with solar reflective film that seems to have the same effect.

 

[Fahad]

It wouldn't be illegal to construct the vehicle in such a way that a signal couldn't get in. Many buildings are like this. Or indeed trains with solar reflective film that seems to have the same effect.

It wouldn't be illegal surely but the cost of doing that would be too high!

 

[jon0844]

It wouldn't be illegal surely but the cost of doing that would be too high!

I can't see any vehicle maker ever doing this, so it's purely hypothetical.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Isn't it hypothetically just a case of coating the windows and other weak points with that godawful film used on the windows of modern trains? (not that I'm agreeing that it's a good idea, just discussing the practicality)

 

[AM9]

All this talk of what is legal in terms of controlling mobile phone use within cars is irrelevant. If the government of the day decided to make it a legal requirement that such measures existed and included it in the Road Vehicles Construction & Use legislation, it would be so. Of course it would take some time for the majority of vehicles on the road to become so equipped but (probably) the worst offenders are those driving in newer cars and vans anyway.

 

[Antman]

All this talk of what is legal in terms of controlling mobile phone use within cars is irrelevant. If the government of the day decided to make it a legal requirement that such measures existed and included it in the Road Vehicles Construction & Use legislation, it would be so. Of course it would take some time for the majority of vehicles on the road to become so equipped but (probably) the worst offenders are those driving in newer cars and vans anyway.

I don't think that is the answer at all, somebody injured in an accident might have to make an emergency call from inside a car.

Automatic bans for offenders is the answer, three months for the first offence and the ban doubles with any subsequent offences.

 

[jon0844]

The current punishments are, in my opinion, satisfactory if actually used. We don't need to suggest rather crazy, expensive, possibly illegal in cases, alternatives.

We just put more police on the ground and let them do their job.

We also stop allowing it to be acceptable for people to who do get done to play the victim, say the police should have been concentrating on something else etc, and just accept it.

 

[AM9]

The current punishments are, in my opinion, satisfactory if actually used. We don't need to suggest rather crazy, expensive, possibly illegal in cases, alternatives.

We just put more police on the ground and let them do their job.

We also stop allowing it to be acceptable for people to who do get done to play the victim, say the police should have been concentrating on something else etc, and just accept it.

I have no problems with anything that you say above except the word 'illegal'. Whether individuals like it or not, a law passed IAW parlimentary procedures by a democratically elected government is by definition legal until either it is deemed in contravention of another law by a court, or it is repealed by the same or a later administration. I am assuming that any laws passed are compatible with existing EU directives as enshrined into English law, unless of course we the electorate have thrown our toys out of our prams and we leave the EU.
I agree that such a measure would be difficult to implement (and probably unlikely to happen) even if it was decided to proceed, but getting a sufficient number of police to remove rogue drivers isn't exactly going to be easy, so probably the needless death-toll will continue for decades just like it did with drink-driving.

 

[Minilad]

The current punishments are, in my opinion, satisfactory if actually used. We don't need to suggest rather crazy, expensive, possibly illegal in cases, alternatives.

We just put more police on the ground and let them do their job.

We also stop allowing it to be acceptable for people to who do get done to play the victim, say the police should have been concentrating on something else etc, and just accept it.

Which also applies in respect of people getting caught speeding

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I can't see any vehicle maker ever doing this, so it's purely hypothetical.

Isn't it hypothetically just a case of coating the windows and other weak points with that godawful film used on the windows of modern trains? (not that I'm agreeing that it's a good idea, just discussing the practicality)

I was actually hoping with my question to catch out XC if you had replied that blocking the signals was in fact illegal....

 

[PermitToTravel]

I don't think that is the answer at all, somebody injured in an accident might have to make an emergency call from inside a car.

Automatic bans for offenders is the answer, three months for the first offence and the ban doubles with any subsequent offences.

The current punishments are, in my opinion, satisfactory if actually used. We don't need to suggest rather crazy, expensive, possibly illegal in cases, alternatives.

We just put more police on the ground and let them do their job.

In the absence of a dream-world level of policing, perhaps the stronger punishments would be a more effective deterrent - I certainly don't think driving bans are inappropriate for this, particularly in the case of people looking at phone screens rather than making calls.

 

[jon0844]

Which also applies in respect of people getting caught speeding

Agreed. And I say that as someone done for speeding (albeit many years ago) myself.

 

[Busaholic]

Even at 3am when the roads are empty?

I lived in Copenhagen for a short while in 1969, having up to then lived in London all my life, and it took me a while to come to terms with hearing emergency sirens at night. Emergency vehicles never ever used to sound them in London after about 10 p.m., I suppose for the same reason that use of car horns was also banned at night. As an example of this, as a kid I lived very close to Eltham High Street in SE London, with its fire station about 200 yards as the crow flies from my home. One night the furniture store on the High Street burned down and the first I knew of it was going to school the next morning past its smouldering ruin. I was gutted (but not as much as the store) not to have known it was happening, apparently with about 10 fire engines in attendance.