London-Brighton Main Line - Late Night Staff Stops

[ctom_s]

Hi,

I'm new to this forum so please feel free to move this elsewhere as required.

I'm under the impression a lot of the late night trains from Victoria on the Brighton main line actually stop at Redhill on their way towards Brighton. I was on such a train last week (dep Victoria 0100) which did indeed stop at Redhill. The only odd thing is that it's not actually timetabled to stop there(!). It wasn't listed in the stop list at Victoria and isn't listed as a pick up/set down only stop because then it would show on the national rail website if you looked hard enough.

I bugged Southern on twitter about this, who said it was to drop staff off and the last train to Redhill is 0014 and refused to say more.

My friend lives in Redhill. At the moment she rolls up at Victoria not knowing whether the train will stop without speaking to a member of staff on the platform (who helpfully tell the truth). Does anyone know which of the late night services make an additional stop at Redhill, is it all of them or only some? I'd imagine this only applies to the 1am, 2am and 3am departures but could be wrong.

Any help would be great!

 

[causton]

Sites like http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ will show you trains that stop at Redhill for passenger or operational purposes. However be warned that due to the current state of the Brighton Main Line, these trains can be rerouted with little or no notice and even if the train does stop, not all of the doors may be released (more likely on a train with a guard than not), so I would not advise particularly relying on these trains.

 

[30907]

Sites like http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/ will show you trains that stop at Redhill for passenger or operational purposes. However be warned that due to the current state of the Brighton Main Line, these trains can be rerouted with little or no notice and even if the train does stop, not all of the doors may be released (more likely on a train with a guard than not), so I would not advise particularly relying on these trains.

Diversions have always been the norm, which is why trains like these aren't booked to stop at Redhill.

 

[ctom_s]

Thanks Causton for your reply.

I've tracked down the train we were on and it still isn't listed as stopping at Redhill however, this seems to be Southern's best kept secret(!). It DEFINITELY did stop there promise aha.

see below

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W61751/2015/12/17

Edit:30907, that seems fair enough that they can get bumped onto the Quarry line at short notice, I guess it would still be nice to know because if she ends up at Gatwick it's not the end of the world.

 

[306024]

If you use the advanced facility in RTT you'll find your Redhill call, as well as a stop at Selhurst which is also not advertised. If the train is diverted via the Quarry line then it can't call at Redhill, which will be why it isn't advertised.

Of course staff stops are exactly that, staff stops. The Twitter team are not going to encourage fare paying passengers to use them.

 

[ctom_s]

You guys are amazing, I thought I was a train nerd but I still have lots to learn!

 

[306024]

Some of us prefer to be called professional railway(wo)men but we'll accept the compliment none the less

Always prepared to help others with a genuine interest to understand our industry, but enjoy having fun with those that think they know better as well

 

[tony6499]

Staff Stop is exactly that , not for paying passengers

 

[6Gman]

Passengers alighting at a staff stop could find themselves in some difficulty.

Don't do it would be my advice.

Seriously.

 

[ctom_s]

Duly noted will pass on.

Fortunately not an issue for me as I only have to get back to Battersea Park

 

[Surreytraveller]

I believe its only the 01.02 Victoria to Brighton that stops at Redhill. And the 04.15 Brighton to Victoria in the reverse direction (shown as 03.50 in the timetables to allow for diversion via Hove or Lewes for engineering work). Being staff stops, there is no obligation to tell you whether they stop there or not, nor to provide alternative transport if it doesn't. Although regular passengers do become wise to these services, and there is usually no problem with the public using them. But some staff stops do occur at stations which are locked up.

 

[ctom_s]

Thanks.

According to that timetable website the 0400 from Victoria also stops.

All very interesting stuff...

 

[sarahj]

When your working these trains I used to only announce an arrival at Redhill when the train crossed the point into the loop. If people asked if we were stopping my answer is, possibly, but until we stop at the platform I can not guarantee it. I've heard of folks doing announcements from Victoria and the driver even adding it to the PIS, and then not stopping and having a train full of miffed punters. Selhurst is an ok one to mention, as unless your going via C Palace*, then you pass, and you stop. And that is a staff stop, for all the staff at Selhurt Depot.
If you plan your life around a staff stop at Redhill, you will be disappointed as you get a taxi back from Horley. If it stops, bonus, if not, its cheese and its hard.

* then you stop at Norwood Junction instead.

 

[JonathanH]

It depends on whether these are actually "staff stops" or whether they are "unadvertised stops that can't be guaranteed". I think they are very much the latter and simply a consequence of the Redhill / Quarry line issue.

Otherwise, on the introduction of 377s ten years ago, Southern could have put up posters saying that doors would no longer be opened at Redhill on the late / early trains that stop there.

Is there any practice of charging people an excess / penalty fare if they travel with tickets to Redhill on the 0102 from Victoria?

(And just to follow up that point, presumably when trains like http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/W66672/2015/12/23/advanced run which are actually staff trains, not all the doors open?)

 

[tsr]

Redhill station is usually open for people to alight from the staff stops, but the driver does not have to open the doors for the public and sometimes they will not, especially if it's an unexpected stop on a train not mentioned here. Even if it is, on rare occasions there may be no overnight staff at Redhill to supervise passengers, or there could be other problems such as maintenance work on the platforms preventing a public call, so in these cases the driver would stop and staff would use the cab doors (which are NOT an option for the public unless there is an evacuation or the other doors fail!).

As you will see from Realtime Trains, staff stops at Redhill can exist on the 010x/040x from Victoria, and the 035x from Three Bridges (where x is the minute, which regularly varies due to engineering work). The stop on the 0350 from Brighton is no longer a staff-only stop and is now an advertised call.

The aforementioned staff stops are definitely timetabled and marked on train crew diagrams as being for staff only. Sometimes, if there have been major late-night events in London or other nearby areas, or if there are cancellations of the first/last trains at Redhill, these stops will be converted to public service calls by means of a special stop order. If so, they will usually be advertised on CIS screens and the like. Onboard train PIS displays will show Redhill by default when some of the configuration codes are entered for services with staff stops there. If the driver is not given a PIS code, then it is up to them to see if they can find an approximately appropriate one from their own documentation, which may mean one is used which shows Redhill when actually it is not an advertised call.

Usually, if the staff stops are omitted there will be notice by means of a change in the schedule on RTT, and in the internal rail industry documentation, but this is not always so. If it is, it's usually the case that the days when staff stops are removed are Mondays/Tuesdays to Thursdays. The stops are well-known amongst some passengers and to avoid disturbances due to them not being made (it happens), every effort is made at the weekends to call at Redhill and open the doors during staff calls. The exception is the train on Sunday mornings which usually leaves Three Bridges around 0400, which heads to Victoria but does not call at Redhill at 0415 as it does on other days.

 

[maniacmartin]

I've been on the 0100 myself a fair few times, and every time we've been diverted, there has been a manual onboard announcement before departing along the lines of "Note that this train will not be calling at Selhurst", to warn those passengers who are too wise for their own good. Obviously such an announcement cannot be guaranteed though.

 

[Minstral25]

In the Thameslink contract the last train from London to Redhill is supposed to depart no earlier than 01:00. GTR are currently not conforming to this requirement. One of many failures along the Redhill route.

 

[tsr]

In the Thameslink contract the last train from London to Redhill is supposed to depart no earlier than 01:00. GTR are currently not conforming to this requirement. One of many failures along the Redhill route.

That's interesting - I was sure the contract just said there had to be a last train between midnight and 0100 (which there is - the 0014 London Victoria-Gatwick Airport). Maybe I have misread the requirements then - lucky I'm not responsible for implementing it!

 

[JonathanH]

In the Thameslink contract the last train from London to Redhill is supposed to depart no earlier than 01:00. GTR are currently not conforming to this requirement. One of many failures along the Redhill route.

Presumably because either
a) Network Rail haven't yet dealt with infrastructure changes for this to happen
b) GTR don't want to pay for a bus to be on standby from Purley for when the 0100 can't run via Redhill

I note that the first advertised trains in the morning are now earlier - eg 0504 from Redhill to Thameslink is the first up service now.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

That's interesting - I was sure the contract just said there had to be a last train between midnight and 0100 (which there is - the 0014 London Victoria-Gatwick Airport). Maybe I have misread the requirements then - lucky I'm not responsible for implementing it!

Page 362 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploa...ile/381933/tsgn-service-level-commitments.pdf does appear to state that the last train from London to Redhill should leave London after 0100. The earlier text (which summarised the pre-December 2015 timetable) only required a service between 0001 and 0030 from London. So the 0100 should already be making a scheduled stop.

Page 367 of the document requires a train after 0100 and the first service no later than 0230 suggesting all night trains from December 2018.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

We used to have them down at Pompey to take the early starters to Eastleigh, but it never seemed to avoid attracting controversy.

The problem being that those who didn't know how to read the WTT properly, thought that when they saw a time like this (04N45) it meant a passing time which are actually written like this 04/45 and there's a significant difference.

The number of times go hauled over the coals for missing Cosham & Fareham was unbelievable.

In the end it was bought up at a drivers "Company Day" what they now call a development day and the matter was sorted that way, however shortly afterwards the Eastleigh staff train was withdrawn.