New Liverpool Street lines timetable

[AlanFry1]

Now that the number of crossrail trains in the peak starting/ending at LST has been cut down from 6-4 from 2018, I assume that there has finally been an answer from above on solving the problems on the astronomical overcrowding on the WAML and GEML.

So what changes can us commuters expect?
(Inc new developments at Chelmsford north (new settlement 6000 homes), White hart lane (I've just checked 20,000-30,000 new homes), Tottenham Hale - Meridian Water (21,000 new homes).

WAML is to get very crowded! Hopefully either a Enfield/Cheshunt to Stratford via south tottenham or a new WHL-LST service using the points ahead of the station.

 

[306024]

Now that the number of crossrail trains in the peak starting/ending at LST has been cut down from 6-4 from 2018, I assume that there has finally been an answer from above on solving the problems on the astronomical overcrowding on the WAML and GEML.

I wondered why Tim Peake had gone up to the international space station, I now realise it is to solve passenger loadings into Liverpool St.

I think the powers that be are still waiting for that fully detailed timetable you claimed was easy to produce.

 

[swt_passenger]

Now that the number of crossrail trains in the peak starting/ending at LST has been cut down from 6-4 from 2018, I assume that there has finally been an answer from above on solving the problems on the astronomical overcrowding on the WAML and GEML.

So what changes can us commuters expect?
(Inc new developments at Chelmsford north (new settlement 6000 homes), White hart lane (I've just checked 20,000-30,000 new homes), Tottenham Hale - Meridian Water (21,000 new homes).

WAML is to get very crowded! Hopefully either a Enfield/Cheshunt to Stratford via south tottenham or a new WHL-LST service using the points ahead of the station.

Have you never read any of the responses to your similar previous questions? You aren't going to get any different answers if you wait a couple of weeks every time, try waiting until NR publish some plans, I think that's what most people do...

 

[jopsuk]

Now that the number of crossrail trains in the peak starting/ending at LST has been cut down from 6-4 from 2018, I assume that there has finally been an answer from above on solving the problems on the astronomical overcrowding on the WAML and GEML.

So what changes can us commuters expect?
(Inc new developments at Chelmsford north (new settlement 6000 homes), White hart lane (I've just checked 20,000-30,000 new homes), Tottenham Hale - Meridian Water (21,000 new homes).

WAML is to get very crowded! Hopefully either a Enfield/Cheshunt to Stratford via south tottenham or a new WHL-LST service using the points ahead of the station.

Future plans:
Crossrail 1 will be 12tph, all 200m long, through the core, when complete.

Crossrail 2 will be at least 12tph on new slow lines (four track railway) from Tottenham Hale to Broxbourne

STAR - Stratford to Angel Road - will be 4tph and as far as I can tell is planned to run to Hertford and/or Bishops Stortford.

Overground has a new fleet on order for Chingford, Chesunt and Enfield services.

Now, this may not all be complete till 2030, but that's quite a clear 15 year plan. Crossrail 2 and STAR will close all the Lea Valley level crossings and will free up capacity for services beyond Bishops Stortford. The worst bottleneck that will remain will be Clapton, where Cambridge and Stansted services will still have to slot in around.

Really, there's no London Terminal with as clear a plan for massively increasing suburban capacity than Liverpool Street.

 

[rwebster]

Last time I checked, there's about 5,000 homes coming forward at Meridian Water. Potentially 10,000 in Tottenham as a whole - but 5,000 of those are at Tottenham Hale (i.e. more likely to be Victoria Line users), with a couple of thousand around Seven Sisters and a couple of thousand up the High Road near White Hart Lane...

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/tottenham_summary_pdf_web.pdf

There's lots of growth happening on the lines into Liverpool Street, but no more so than on the lines into Paddington, Marylebone, Waterloo, etc etc...

 

[AM9]

I know, things are hard down south. I duly hope that you reach 7tph soon, even on Sundays. And who knows, maybe we'll even get a direct train from Bradford to Hull, or from Liverpool to Nottingham.

When (if) there is ever passenger flow justification for a service from Bradford to Hull, it will no doubt happen. The stations on the routes being discussed here have massive passengers that frequencies of 7tph can't cope with. Of the fourteen stations on the GE Metro services from Shenfield to Liverpool St, all but two of them each have passenger flows greater than Hull or even both Bradford terminii combined. Two of them are busier than Nottingham, (Romford and Ilford), one is nearly the same as Leeds and almost twice that of Lime Street (Stratford) and of course there is Liverpool St with its handful of passengers at 63 million.
All these comments are misdirected unless the numbers of passengers are understood and taken into consideration to demonstrate the viability of services from anywhere to anywhere calling at so many minor destinations shacks in the north.

 

[AlanFry1]

Last time I checked, there's about 5,000 homes coming forward at Meridian Water. Potentially 10,000 in Tottenham as a whole - but 5,000 of those are at Tottenham Hale (i.e. more likely to be Victoria Line users), with a couple of thousand around Seven Sisters and a couple of thousand up the High Road near White Hart Lane...

http://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/tottenham_summary_pdf_web.pdf

There's lots of growth happening on the lines into Liverpool Street, but no more so than on the lines into Paddington, Marylebone, Waterloo, etc etc...

Tottenham Hot. F.C. confirmed this was 20,000 after a change to their stadia plans, I think it's 10,000 affordable homes

 

[306024]

When (if) there is ever passenger flow justification for a service from Bradford to Hull, it will no doubt happen. The stations on the routes being discussed here have massive passengers that frequencies of 7tph can't cope with. Of the fourteen stations on the GE Metro services from Shenfield to Liverpool St, all but two of them each have passenger flows greater than Hull or even both Bradford terminii combined. Two of them are busier than Nottingham, (Romford and Ilford), one is nearly the same as Leeds and almost twice that of Lime Street (Stratford) and of course there is Liverpool St with its handful of passengers at 63 million.
All these comments are misdirected unless the numbers of passengers are understood and taken into consideration to demonstrate the viability of services from anywhere to anywhere calling at so many minor destinations shacks in the north.

Travel on the Shenfield service in the peaks and you'll see the demand. Class 345 units can't come quick enough, simply for the extra standing capacity they provide.

I know, things are hard down south. I duly hope that you reach 7tph soon, even on Sundays. And who knows, maybe we'll even get a direct train from Bradford to Hull, or from Liverpool to Nottingham.

You have a direct service from Liverpool to Nottingham, which continues to the fine city of Norwich.

 

[AlanFry1]

We should see the liverpoolst-chingford increased to 6tph in the peaks, with at least two going via stratford. That needs to happen.

 

[Bald Rick]

We should see the liverpoolst-chingford increased to 6tph in the peaks, with at least two going via stratford. That needs to happen.

Please read the responses to every other similar statement you have made in the past.

The West Anglia route, and Liverpool Street, are both full. There is no space for any more trains until more infrastructure is provided. This is coming in the form of the STAR scheme, which by 2018 permits an extra 2 trains per hour between Stratford, Tottenham Hale and Angel Road only.

If you want more trains than this, write to your MP and ask the Government to push on with Crossrail 2 quickly. There are no other solutions planned that result in more trains from the West Anglia corridor(s) to Liverpool Street.

 

[jopsuk]

To really improve Chingford - Liverpool Street needs extra tracks from Clapton Junction to Hackney Downs North Junction taking the Stansted Express/Cambridge services either over or under the Chingford line and bypassing Clapton. I'd then send Chingford services to call at London Fields, Cambridge Heath and Bethnal Green.

Also needs more efficient turn around at Liverpool Street? Ideally the approaches would be 8 track- two for Enfield/Chesunt/Chingford Overground, two for West Anglia/Stansted Express, two for GEML Express/Intercity and two for GEML outer suburban + peak Shenfield Metro.

 

[swt_passenger]

If you want more trains than this, write to your MP and ask the Government to push on with Crossrail 2 quickly. There are no other solutions planned that result in more trains from the West Anglia corridor(s) to Liverpool Street.

We know from previous discussions the NR strategy is to use the extra capacity between Stratford and Liverpool ST for additional trains from the GEML. I've quoted whole chunks of the proposals in earlier threads of this type.

 

[CyrusWuff]

Also needs more efficient turn around at Liverpool Street?

I'm not sure how you can make West Anglia Inner turnarounds any more efficient than they already are, given they're already as low as 4 minutes between arrival and departure in the peaks (usually 6 or 7 minutes off-peak)! The GE Metro ones could do with tightening up though, as they're generally ten minutes or more.

 

[Class 170101]

We know from previous discussions the NR strategy is to use the extra capacity between Stratford and Liverpool ST for additional trains from the GEML. I've quoted whole chunks of the proposals in earlier threads of this type.

Where is the additional capacity north of Stratford to Shenfield to accommodate all these additional GEML services though?

I'm not sure how you can make West Anglia Inner turnarounds any more efficient than they already are, given they're already as low as 4 minutes between arrival and departure in the peaks (usually 6 or 7 minutes off-peak)! The GE Metro ones could do with tightening up though, as they're generally ten minutes or more.

GE Metros are tight in the peaks. 7 minutes is about as tight as you want to go. six minutes is the absolute minimum. Off peak is 13 minutes.

 

[swt_passenger]

Where is the additional capacity north of Stratford to Shenfield to accommodate all these additional GEML services though?

I don't know. NR say they can achieve an uplift to 28 tph into Liverpool St by remodelling the tracks at Bow Junction, and with certain infrastructure changes elsewhere e.g.:

• High Meads new sidings (£15.86m)
• turnback infrastructure at Chelmsford East (£3.87m)
• turnback infrastructure at Wickford (£0.83m)

Details are at option D2 of the London and SE RUS.

However, I only mentioned it again because the original poster of this thread never seems to take anything on board, just repeating his own preferences...

 

[306024]

I'm not sure how you can make West Anglia Inner turnarounds any more efficient than they already are, given they're already as low as 4 minutes between arrival and departure in the peaks (usually 6 or 7 minutes off-peak)! The GE Metro ones could do with tightening up though, as they're generally ten minutes or more.

Beware! Looks like you are quoting from the public timetable on WA there. On the GE metro many trains run back ECS for their next workings.

Very difficult to tighten up the metro turnrounds without hitting another train coming into Liverpool St, the platform working at Liverpool St is based on maximising parallel moves across the throat (thereby maximising capacity) rather than trying to achieve heroic turnround times. Besides no point in dashing back to Shenfield if you are just going to wait outside there for a platform instead.

I don't know. NR say they can achieve an uplift to 28 tph into Liverpool St by remodelling the tracks at Bow Junction, and with certain infrastructure changes elsewhere e.g.:

• High Meads new sidings (£15.86m)
• turnback infrastructure at Chelmsford East (£3.87m)
• turnback infrastructure at Wickford (£0.83m)

Details are at option D2 of the London and SE RUS.

Shame they didn't mention the signalling capability on the up main from Shenfield to Harold Wood. Threading the Southend and Colchester line trains together to achieve 28 tph could prove a challenge too.

 

[Busaholic]

I don't know. NR say they can achieve an uplift to 28 tph into Liverpool St by remodelling the tracks at Bow Junction

This must be in the Bow Locks area