Mistaken identity

[Nickw84]

Hi I really need someone's help. In September I received a further steps the letter was horrible threatening to arrest me if I didn't pay this fine. I did pay the fine. I then contacted the court asking them what this fine was about. They said it was for an unpaid train fair from stalybridge to Manchester on 13th July 2009. I couldn't believe it I have never even been to stalybridge before. It turns out that on this day someone didn't buy a ticket for £2.80. And they have stolen my identity. They were identified by a letter from the job centre that had my details on that's how it has got back to me. I appeared in my local court in Walsall the westmidlands to do a statutory declaration the judge said I should have appeared in court on the 21st December 2009. The first I heard of the case was in September this year. I have contacted action fraud the police and reported that someone has stolen my id. I now have to travel to Manchester to appear in court next month. I kept a diary from 2009 I was in Walsall at my old job I didn't use my bank card that day I can't prove where I was. If I get found guilty that's going to leave me with court costs and a criminal record. Can someone please help me. It's been s nightmare.

 

[najaB]

If you weren't there then all you need is someone willing to testify/make sworn statement to that fact. It's up to the Train Company to prove you are guilty.

 

[CatfordCat]

Have you got some sort of legal representation here?

I'm not a lawyer or a police-person so can't offer specialist advice, but do wonder if this is the sort of tangle that you need professional help to get out of.

However, a few things that occur to me -

I'm a bit puzzled by you saying you paid the fine, but have to appear in court again. Is this for the same (alleged) offence, or has 'person claiming to be you' done it again?

Firstly, I wonder if just paying the fine may have been taken by the legal system as an admission of guilt. Easier said than done now, but wonder if you should have asked more questions before paying up.

Do you know if this letter from the job centre was a letter genuinely from the job centre to you that someone else has found / stolen? (any ideas how this might have happened?), or were you not making a claim with the job centre at the time?

If the latter, then you'll need to talk to the DWP about this, as firstly it means that this person is defrauding the DWP (either they aren't entitled to JSA or they are claiming twice or something) and it could louse up your future benefits entitlement (and could result in further action against you if they think you have been working and signing on at the same time.)

As an aside, it may also be worth getting a credit check done, in case this person has tried to open a bank account / get credit in your name.

Was the court summons in 2009 sent to your current address? Or an old address? or an address you've never lived at? Since you're not required to register your address with the legal system in case they feel like sending you a summons, I don't see that it's reasonable to take action against you for not responding to a summons that was sent to the wrong address, but I don't know what the legal position is here. I can find a few references on web forums to this situation, but legal advice by web forum is not worth more than the pixels it appears on. If you have something that proves you were living at X address not Y address (e.g. council tax bill or something like that) in late 2009, then that might help matters.

Ultimately, criminal law should be on the basis of 'innocent until proven guilty' but I also suspect that magistrates and the like are a bit sceptical of people saying "it wasn't me, it must have been someone else giving my name"

Again, a solicitor will know the right points to make in court and the right questions to ask.

 

[Diplodicus]

How on earth does anyone pay a fine for an offence they have not committed?

 

[CatfordCat]

How on earth does anyone pay a fine for an offence they have not committed?

I can see some people doing this if they have little knowledge of the way the legal system works and get an official letter out of the blue threatening them with being carted off to the clink if they don't.

Although as I said, I'd think it wiser to ring up and ask what the heck it was all about first (but it is perhaps a bit late for that now in this case)

Also, in response to najaB's post, I'm not sure I'd find it easy to track down any of my colleagues I was working with in 2009, let alone get them to be sure I was at work on a particular day 6 years ago...

 

[najaB]

Also, in response to najaB's post, I'm not sure I'd find it easy to track down any of my colleagues I was working with in 2009, let alone get them to be sure I was at work on a particular day 6 years ago...

I suppose it is easier in some jobs than others.

 

[gray1404]

How on earth does anyone pay a fine for an offence they have not committed?

Exactly!

 

[Llanigraham]

Hi I really need someone's help. In September I received a further steps (1) the letter was horrible threatening to arrest me if I didn't pay this fine.(2) I did pay the fine. (3) I then contacted the court asking them what this fine was about. (4) They said it was for an unpaid train fair from stalybridge to Manchester on 13th July 2009. I couldn't believe it I have never even been to stalybridge before. It turns out that on this day someone didn't buy a ticket for £2.80. And they have stolen my identity. They were identified by a letter from the job centre that had my details on that's how it has got back to me. I appeared in my local court in Walsall the westmidlands to do a statutory declaration the judge said I should have appeared in court on the 21st December 2009. (5) The first I heard of the case was in September this year. I have contacted action fraud the police and reported that someone has stolen my id. I now have to travel to Manchester to appear in court next month. I kept a diary from 2009 I was in Walsall at my old job I didn't use my bank card that day I can't prove where I was. If I get found guilty that's going to leave me with court costs and a criminal record. Can someone please help me. It's been s nightmare.

Something doesn't add up here!!

(1) What EXACTLY did you receive? Your words don't make sense.
(2) What fine?
(3) Why did you pay it?
(4) Why didn't you do that BEFORE you paid it?
(5) Did they grant the Statutory Declaration?

 

[Romilly]

(1) What EXACTLY did you receive? Your words don't make sense.

A further steps notice is a procedure taken by the Fines Enforcement office of a criminal court to enforce payment of a criminal court fine when other prior procedures have failed to get the fine paid: see Schedule 5 to the Courts Act 2003 as amended.

 

[island]

If you've paid the fine then I'm unclear what a statutory declaration will have achieve.

The conviction is probably spent by now, isn't it?

 

[Llanigraham]

A further steps notice is a procedure taken by the Fines Enforcement office of a criminal court to enforce payment of a criminal court fine when other prior procedures have failed to get the fine paid: see Schedule 5 to the Courts Act 2003 as amended.

Which isn't what was said!

 

[DaveNewcastle]

This doesn't look like identity theft to me if it is just a one-off incident 6 years ago in which one letter addressed to you was presented deceitfully.

So lets move on to the Court appearance to answer for some Offence or other. It would be tremendously helpful if you could tell us what the Offence is, as stated in the Summons to appear which you have received.

If your Statutory Declaration was accepted by the Judge, then I'll guess that the Court appearance is to answer to the original claim for ticketless travel (to which your adequate defence is thet you were nowhere near the place concerned on the date in question).

If (as Romily has suggested) the Court appearance is to answer for outstanding liabilities to the Courts, then either, you are wrong in thinking that you had paid the full amount you were liable to pay last year, or, there is some other liability which you are unaware of (or the Court has made some administrative error).

Whatever the facts are, it doesn't sound like a difficult matter to resolve simply and cheaply. But from the fragmented information you have given us on here, it's going to be impossilbe to untangle it and give you useful advice.
You could ask a local law firm to help, or you could get good advice from here, but both will require the facts of what the prosecution think is happening, and if you'll forgive my bluntness, you don't seem to have a clue what they are prosecuting you for.
Without that knowledge, none of us can help make it any better.

 

[broadgage]

How on earth does anyone pay a fine for an offence they have not committed?

I an see how it might be tempting, especially if in fact a penalty fare is involved rather a true fine.
I once received a letter demanding payment of a penalty fare by return, for a journey that I had not made.
I contested this and eventually won, but the costs of legal advice, of time off work, of fares to two hearings, and postage and telephone calls, was substantial and was many times the "fine" demanded.
It would have been much, much cheaper to pay a "fine" for an "offence" that I had not committed.
My then employers took a very dim view of a "court appearance for dishonesty" and regarded a court appearance in much the same way as a conviction.

 

[Bletchleyite]

How on earth does anyone pay a fine for an offence they have not committed?

A lot of people write "I did do X" when they mean "I didn't do X" in slang. I suspect the OP meant this.

 

[Nickw84]

This doesn't look like identity theft to me if it is just a one-off incident 6 years ago in which one letter addressed to you was presented deceitfully.

So lets move on to the Court appearance to answer for some Offence or other. It would be tremendously helpful if you could tell us what the Offence is, as stated in the Summons to appear which you have received.

If your Statutory Declaration was accepted by the Judge, then I'll guess that the Court appearance is to answer to the original claim for ticketless travel (to which your adequate defence is thet you were nowhere near the place concerned on the date in question).

If (as Romily has suggested) the Court appearance is to answer for outstanding liabilities to the Courts, then either, you are wrong in thinking that you had paid the full amount you were liable to pay last year, or, there is some other liability which you are unaware of (or the Court has made some administrative error).

Whatever the facts are, it doesn't sound like a difficult matter to resolve simply and cheaply. But from the fragmented information you have given us on here, it's going to be impossilbe to untangle it and give you useful advice.
You could ask a local law firm to help, or you could get good advice from here, but both will require the facts of what the prosecution think is happening, and if you'll forgive my bluntness, you don't seem to have a clue what they are prosecuting you for.
Without that knowledge, none of us can help make it any better.

The case is for not having paid for a ticket from Stalybridge to Manchester on13/7/2009. I've never even been to Stalybridge before. They got my name and address because someone was identified with a letter from the job centre with my name on. The case starts in Manchester next month.

 

[Nickw84]

The course summons says on 13/7/2009 I travelled from Stalybridge to Manchester without having paid the fare. Someone produced a letter from the job center with my name and address on this is how it has got back to me.

 

[Jonfun]

If you've paid the fine then I'm unclear what a statutory declaration will have achieve.

The conviction is probably spent by now, isn't it?

It's still a blot on his good name though. Just because a conviction is 'spent' doesn't mean it ceases to exist, or is deleted from the record or whatever.
Would you be happy to spend the rest of your life as a convicted criminal because someone stole your identity?

 

[Llanigraham]

It's still a blot on his good name though. Just because a conviction is 'spent' doesn't mean it ceases to exist, or is deleted from the record or whatever.
Would you be happy to spend the rest of your life as a convicted criminal because someone stole your identity?

But would you pay a fine, if that is what it was in this case, without finding out why you had been issued with it?
I have a feeling that once a Court Fine is paid then that is the end of the matter, and it would be too late to "make an appeal". Perhaps Dave can clarify?
As said, there are things in this story that do not add up!

 

[Jonfun]

Well, I'd be straight in contact with the court to ask why they were sending me letters, but I can understand why someone, if they were being threatened with someone coming to their front door and them being sent to prison, would pay first and question later.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Thanks for explaining what the Summons is for.

It is now clear that the Court hearing is in respect of a suspected incidence of fare evasion which is being re-heard as a result of the Statutory Declaration you made. Your defence is simple - it wasn't you. There's really nothing else to be said about that (if, and only if, that is true).

What surprises me is that the Railway Company still think that it it is worth going to Court to get a judgement against you. Either you haven't explained to their Prosecutions team that it wasn't you, or you have, but they have peruasive evidence against you.

Have you spoken with them to discuss this situation?
If so, how was the situation left at the end of the conversation?
If not, why not?

 

[talltim]

With regards to paying a fine and then appealing it, isn't that what is often recommended (on this forum) with Penalty Fares? I know they aren't technically/legally a fine, but in most peoples eyes they are.
I would however find out what it was about before paying it.