New shorter NB4L unveiled

[Tetchytyke]

Not really, maybe on a route like the 88 but on most routes that terminate in the central area its either one or the other.

Out in the suburbs you tend to see the same boarding patterns as in the provinces- the bus steadily fills up then everyone gets off at the train/tube/bus station.

In the centre (which I'll take to mean zone one, given how big the "centre" is in London), most stops will see significant boarding and alighting at the same time. A lot of the routes cross the centre, stopping at the far end (e.g. 73 or C2 through to Victoria, 10 or 59 through to Kings Cross, 453 through to Baker St/Marylebone) and you'll get plenty of traffic from the edge of the centre right into the centre.

 

[neilm831]

I see fares are only getting a 1% increase..i would gladly pay £2 a ride on the new routemasters to help finance the new batch,I was on the 148 yesterday and saturday and thoroughly enjoyed my rides.
My enthusiasm has not dipped at all ever since the first eight protocols launched on the 38. This even further backs my wanting far many than what we have now on london buses,in fact would like them here in sussex.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Out in the suburbs you tend to see the same boarding patterns as in the provinces- the bus steadily fills up then everyone gets off at the train/tube/bus station.

In the centre (which I'll take to mean zone one, given how big the "centre" is in London), most stops will see significant boarding and alighting at the same time. A lot of the routes cross the centre, stopping at the far end (e.g. 73 or C2 through to Victoria, 10 or 59 through to Kings Cross, 453 through to Baker St/Marylebone) and you'll get plenty of traffic from the edge of the centre right into the centre.

Hang on.... Aren't we all in agreement???

We all recognise that there are many stops on London routes where there are significant access/egress and so multi-door vehicles are perhaps appropriate. Obviously, that might be less so out in the provinces but there are some cities where the cross city pattern of operation (e.g. Newcastle, Oxford) might also benefit but the benefit is probably not great enough to outweigh additional costs, reduction in capacity, and the fact that they may need to be cascaded elsewhere.

 

[radamfi]

Metrobus is rather unusual in running a lot of two-door buses. Well, Metrobus is unusual in a number of ways, and probably why it regularly wins awards. Obviously Metrobus is also a London bus contractor and so in the past has cascaded former London buses to Crawley. So obviously the two doors are inherited, but before they are used on non-London commercial routes they are refurbished with a different livery and change of seat fabric. They could remove the second door at this point but they haven't always, whereas other operators who use old London buses tend to remove it. Don't forget, we are talking about a modest sized town here. You would have thought that somewhere like Manchester would have more need of two doors than Crawley.

There are also routes branded "Fastway" that have used double-door buses bought brand new since the Fastway inception in 2003. For many years they bought Scania Omnicities but have recently switched to Wright bodied Volvos, but still with two doors.

 

[AB93]

Metrobus is rather unusual in running a lot of two-door buses. Well, Metrobus is unusual in a number of ways, and probably why it regularly wins awards. Obviously Metrobus is also a London bus contractor and so in the past has cascaded former London buses to Crawley. So obviously the two doors are inherited, but before they are used on non-London commercial routes they are refurbished with a different livery and change of seat fabric. They could remove the second door at this point but they don't, whereas other operators who use old London buses tend to remove it.

That's not quite true - not all dual-door buses retain their second doors. The batch of TfL-spec Enviro200s inherited from Arriva were converted to single door. The same goes for the batch of Scania OmniTowns which have moved from the London to provincial blue ops.

More recently, the Scania OmniCitys that have been displaced from Fastway by the new Volvos have have been converted to single door.

Don't forget, we are talking about a modest sized town here. You would have thought that somewhere like Manchester would have more need of two doors than Crawley.

I suppose there's the factor of how much of the Stagecoach/First Manchester fleet is ex-London, compared to Metrobus' ex-London fleet where they've left the doors in. I think it's telling that, Fastway vehicles aside, none of the buses Metrobus have bought new for blue Crawley services have been dual door.

There are also routes branded "Fastway" that have used double-door buses bought brand new since the Fastway inception in 2003. For many years they bought Scania Omnicities but have recently switched to Wright bodied Volvos, but still with two doors. Most unusually (for Britain) they also have shorter Scania Omnicities because one route goes around an estate where full size buses wouldn't go around. This isn't a high-frequency route on a major corridor. It only runs every 20 minutes at best. But this gets two doors.

No it doesn't - the short OmniCitys used on the Fastway 100 are single door!!

 

[radamfi]

No it doesn't - the short OmniCitys used on the Fastway 100 are single door!!

Yes, you are right. I should know, they go within a few minutes walk of my home! I've edited my earlier post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suppose there's the factor of how much of the Stagecoach/First Manchester fleet is ex-London, compared to Metrobus' ex-London fleet where they've left the doors in. I think it's telling that, Fastway vehicles aside, none of the buses Metrobus have bought new for blue Crawley services have been dual door.

But why insist on dual-door for Fastway? They were/are brand new for Crawley. Greater Manchester is a 2 million+ conurbation.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, you are right. I should know, they go within a few minutes walk of my home! I've edited my earlier post.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


But why insist on dual-door for Fastway? They were/are brand new for Crawley. Greater Manchester is a 2 million+ conurbation.

Perhaps because of the high percentage of existing dual doors in the fleet? More a reflection on Crawley as an exception to the rule.

Also, very few cross city routes in Manchester so the typical provincial model etc

 

[Antman]

Yes, quite sure.

Funny there's no mention of any new dual doored buses on the B&H website?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Also, very few cross city routes in Manchester so the typical provincial model etc

The one route that would do very well with dual-door or even open boarding is Oxford/Wilmslow Road. Mind you, it could *really* do with trams.

Whatever the current number of the 135 to Bury has dual-door artics, I believe, I have a feeling it isn't legal to have artics with no rear door at all.

 

[Busaholic]

I see fares are only getting a 1% increase..i would gladly pay £2 a ride on the new routemasters to help finance the new batch,I was on the 148 yesterday and saturday and thoroughly enjoyed my rides.
My enthusiasm has not dipped at all ever since the first eight protocols launched on the 38. This even further backs my wanting far many than what we have now on london buses,in fact would like them here in sussex.

I think you just nailed what we should call these buses: PROTOCOLS, as in 'I just saw one of those Johnson Protocols on the 148'

One of the biggest problems LT and now TfL has had with converting trunk routes like the 6,8,12,30,40,88 and 159 each of which had separate traffic streams from two different parts of London into the West End or City is where to terminate buses in the central area. Victoria Bus Station creaks at the seams (and, in any case, is not a suitable terminus for buses from the south), the old Gillingham Street bus garage and parking area has gone, Oxford Circus and Tottenham Court Road Station can take no more buses and Marble Arch should be no more than a late-running turning point, given its lack of facilities for drivers, unless money is spent on making it into something better (oh, yes, there is no money, right). Kings Cross is fortunate in having a street where the buses do not impede commerce, alongside the wall of the station, but with 'regeneration' who's to say how long this will be allowed to continue? Crossrail construction has and will stop Liverpool Street Bus Station being used for months at a time, as has London Bridge reconstruction. No doubt Euston Bus Station will be disrupted by HS2 too.

 

[radamfi]

Lots of Greater Manchester routes go between two or more major centres. For example Rochdale to Oldham to Ashton, Rochdale to Middleton to Manchester, Rochdale to Bury to Bolton etc. So stops between these centres will have people getting on and off.

The 192 from Manchester to Stockport to Hazel Grove is one of the busiest routes outside London. People go from Manchester to Levenshume, Levenshume to Stockport, Stockport to Hazel Grove etc. I don't think Crawley Fastway is in the same league as that!

A few cross-city routes have started in recent years, for example the 18, 50 and First 42. There is a cross-city bus priority scheme under construction at the moment which presumably will encourage further cross-city routes.

 

[Deerfold]

A few cross-city routes have started in recent years, for example the 18, 50 and First 42. There is a cross-city bus priority scheme under construction at the moment which presumably will encourage further cross-city routes.

After changes in the 90s killed them all off.



Many cities used to have cross-city routes but scrapped them as increasing congestion caused problems on the opposite side of the city to where the problems were - when I lived in Nottingham in the early nineties, perhaps a third of the routes crossed the city centre, whilst now I can't think of any (though lots of routes loop the city centre, causing these roads to be very busy). Leeds is perhaps one of the few large cities to have a good number of cross-city routes - which of course go nowhere near the bus station, making transfer between routes tricky for non-locals. I'm guessing First isn't keen on getting double door buses (on top of the few bendy buses) as these would not be able to be easily used in West Yorkshire's drive-in, reverse out bus stations. The improvements to the 72 Bradford-Leeds link buses came with the downside that they could no longer serve Leeds bus station.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Lots of Greater Manchester routes go between two or more major centres. For example Rochdale to Oldham to Ashton, Rochdale to Middleton to Manchester, Rochdale to Bury to Bolton etc. So stops between these centres will have people getting on and off.

The 192 from Manchester to Stockport to Hazel Grove is one of the busiest routes outside London. People go from Manchester to Levenshume, Levenshume to Stockport, Stockport to Hazel Grove etc. I don't think Crawley Fastway is in the same league as that!

A few cross-city routes have started in recent years, for example the 18, 50 and First 42. There is a cross-city bus priority scheme under construction at the moment which presumably will encourage further cross-city routes.

As I said, there are very few cross city routes. 3 ain't many, and given the split in territory between First and Stagecoach, I don't know how many more there would be. Whilst it can enable cross city routes, how many there might be is anyone's guess? Even in GMPTE days, you had a staunchly single door fleet - think the last dual doors might have been the experimental single decks like the K reg Nationals?

Like I say, Crawley is atypical but why it has DD vehicles, I don't know.

The 192 is a very busy route but does the 409 have the same incidence of access/egress as a London route? I suggest not

 

[radamfi]

As I said, there are very few cross city routes. 3 ain't many, and given the split in territory between First and Stagecoach, I don't know how many more there would be. Whilst it can enable cross city routes, how many there might be is anyone's guess? Even in GMPTE days, you had a staunchly single door fleet - think the last dual doors might have been the experimental single decks like the K reg Nationals?

Like I say, Crawley is atypical but why it has DD vehicles, I don't know.

The 192 is a very busy route but does the 409 have the same incidence of access/egress as a London route? I suggest not

Yes, I can't see that much exploitation of the cross-city bus priority scheme until bus devolution is in operation. Pre-1986 GMPTE was not a model of speedy boarding or even good integration. Boarding was very tedious with a highly graduated fare structure measured in odd pence. Towards the end they did try to improve matters with the Clippercard system but cash payment still dominated.

You are setting the bar very high if you demand London levels of crowding before considering two doors. London is getting to the limits of what a normal bus service can carry. They should really be looking at mass conversion to tramway, or at least segregated busway. If people are alighting at the same time as boarding then you save time with two doors, even when crowding levels are not so extreme. It is not as if dual door operation is a specialist or unusual thing. What percentage of passengers in urban areas in the developed world travel on two door buses/trams? It might be as much as 90% or more. It is not even that weird in England as about half of English bus passengers travel on two door buses.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

Yes, I can't see that much exploitation of the cross-city bus priority scheme until bus devolution is in operation. Pre-1986 GMPTE was not a model of speedy boarding or even good integration. Boarding was very tedious with a highly graduated fare structure measured in odd pence. Towards the end they did try to improve matters with the Clippercard system but cash payment still dominated.

You are setting the bar very high if you demand London levels of crowding before considering two doors. London is getting to the limits of what a normal bus service can carry. They should really be looking at mass conversion to tramway, or at least segregated busway. If people are alighting at the same time as boarding then you save time with two doors, even when crowding levels are not so extreme. It is not as if dual door operation is a specialist or unusual thing. What percentage of passengers in urban areas in the developed world travel on two door buses/trams? It might be as much as 90% or more. It is not even that weird in England as about half of English bus passengers travel on two door buses.

On one hand, you say that if we need London levels of patronage for dual door operation, it's a high bar and then say it shouldn't be an issue as 50% of bus passengers use them which is virtually just London.

Even Lothian who persevered with dual door operation longer than most eventually walked away from it. The weight (and so fuel) penalty, additional capital and maintenance costs, and the loss of capacity outweigh any savings in time.

 

[Hophead]

Funny there's no mention of any new dual doored buses on the B&H website?

Until they're delivered (next Spring, I think), there won't be.

 

[duncombec]

Until they're delivered (next Spring, I think), there won't be.

There are a couple of oblique references available: Brighton area Buswatch records it in their July newsletter, and there is a reference on the B&H website here:

http://www.buses.co.uk/page.aspx?pageid=501

speeding up bus journeys by introducing two-door double deck buses - to be trialled first on service 1 from next year (we will also consult with passengers on another service about trialling a "no change" system, to help keep the service moving for everyone)

 

[Tetchytyke]

Obviously, that might be less so out in the provinces but there are some cities where the cross city pattern of operation (e.g. Newcastle, Oxford)

Newcastle's city routes operate cross the city centre more because of a lack of capacity to terminate buses than anything else. But you see the same pattern- the buses steadily fill up on the way into the city centre and then everybody gets off on Blackett Street. Dual-door might save a few seconds but hardly worth it in the grand scheme of things.

Speaking of Manchester, I'm sure the Oxford Road buses would be better off dual-door, given the sheer number of people getting on and off between Fallowfield and the city centre. Especially at lectures time there's enough traffic to justify it.

 

[plcd1]

Newcastle's city routes operate cross the city centre more because of a lack of capacity to terminate buses than anything else. But you see the same pattern- the buses steadily fill up on the way into the city centre and then everybody gets off on Blackett Street. Dual-door might save a few seconds but hardly worth it in the grand scheme of things.

I think there are a couple of issues with Newcastle. One is that the local "corporation" (bit of time travellin there ) network has long had a mix of cross city and circular services and no one has really seen fit to tamper with those fundamentals. Clearly the cross city services are the strongest commercial performers hence the reluctance to fiddle with them. Even the days of TWOC and Welcome saw the main E-W services mirrored. There are obviously some purely radial routes like the 36, 87/8, X78, X82 etc but these date back a long way. The poorer performing old routes from PTE and early Busways days have pretty much all gone with routes like the old 4/5, 37, 41, 49 and 75 long dead and buried. Only the 100 and X47 seem to be innovative new routes in Newcastle with the latter having been "pump primed" in the early days to get it going.

As I'm sure you know there were serious accidents with dual door buses which saw the PTE abandon their use with doors locked out of use or converted to single door. Ridership in the NE has declined from the heady days of the 1980s and traffic conditions in T&W seem to be appalling if you read Stagecoach NE's twitter feed - buses are regularly badly delayed due to congestion. I can't see much reason these days for dual doors in the T&W area - as you say there are not the large scale on and off journeys right throughout routes. Tends to be to City Centres or the Metrocentre with large flows but negligible local traffic.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Speaking of Manchester, I'm sure the Oxford Road buses would be better off dual-door, given the sheer number of people getting on and off between Fallowfield and the city centre. Especially at lectures time there's enough traffic to justify it.

Oxford/Wilmslow Street/Road needs a tram service with all other vehicles other than cycles banned from the section between the railway station and at least the MRI in my view. It's only not considered because the bus service requires no funding, I would say. Logically the tram would run to East Didsbury for interchange with bus routes; another interchange could be provided at the Christie Hospital for the odd-numbered routes that presently turn right there. Buses beyond Parrs Wood would take other parallel routes instead and interchange at Parrs Wood.

Failing that, open boarding artics with all ticketing off-bus would work best for the huge crowds carried, particularly if some sort of deal could be done with the University for a German style interavailable "Semester Ticket".

 

[radamfi]

Oxford/Wilmslow Street/Road needs a tram service with all other vehicles other than cycles banned from the section between the railway station and at least the MRI in my view. It's only not considered because the bus service requires no funding, I would say. Logically the tram would run to East Didsbury for interchange with bus routes; another interchange could be provided at the Christie Hospital for the odd-numbered routes that presently turn right there. Buses beyond Parrs Wood would take other parallel routes instead and interchange at Parrs Wood.

Failing that, open boarding artics with all ticketing off-bus would work best for the huge crowds carried, particularly if some sort of deal could be done with the University for a German style interavailable "Semester Ticket".

There is a bus priority/cycle scheme currently under construction on that corridor (unless construction has already finished?) with motor vehicles except buses being banned on pretty much exactly the part of the road you have just mentioned between 6am and 9pm.

Another place where you have crazy amount of students using the bus is in Utrecht, because the university was built a long way out of town. Normal artics are not enough, so they have 3 part bendy buses with 4 doors (Van Hool AGG300s) along with dedicated busways. However, there is now a tram under construction to replace that route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQg2PGdBPsA (in old blue livery)

The Netherlands doesn't generally have open boarding on buses, but on that route there is. I've been there at university kicking out time and if they all had to board through the front door it would take forever.

If 3 part bendy buses are too long, then there is the Mercedes CapaCity where you still have a 2 part artic but you have 4 axles and 4 doors. They have them in Groningen and I find them an absolute joy to ride. They are obviously similar to Citaros, and I like them too, but I feel the CapaCity has the edge in ride quality, maybe because of the fourth axle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uxuiaSfwmY

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

I think there are a couple of issues with Newcastle. One is that the local "corporation" (bit of time travellin there ) network has long had a mix of cross city and circular services and no one has really seen fit to tamper with those fundamentals. Clearly the cross city services are the strongest commercial performers hence the reluctance to fiddle with them. Even the days of TWOC and Welcome saw the main E-W services mirrored. There are obviously some purely radial routes like the 36, 87/8, X78, X82 etc but these date back a long way. The poorer performing old routes from PTE and early Busways days have pretty much all gone with routes like the old 4/5, 37, 41, 49 and 75 long dead and buried. Only the 100 and X47 seem to be innovative new routes in Newcastle with the latter having been "pump primed" in the early days to get it going.

As I'm sure you know there were serious accidents with dual door buses which saw the PTE abandon their use with doors locked out of use or converted to single door. Ridership in the NE has declined from the heady days of the 1980s and traffic conditions in T&W seem to be appalling if you read Stagecoach NE's twitter feed - buses are regularly badly delayed due to congestion. I can't see much reason these days for dual doors in the T&W area - as you say there are not the large scale on and off journeys right throughout routes. Tends to be to City Centres or the Metrocentre with large flows but negligible local traffic.

Services like the X82 and X87/88 terminate in the city centre as they weren't Corporation routes but were originally United services so they terminated at Haymarket/Eldon Square/Marlborough Cres bus stations IIRC.

Had a hunt on Flickr and found a few other examples of routes that seemingly were historically Busways/PTE/Corpy but were United

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markh737/5043733835/in/photolist-8iEesy-8FGsmc-5xVPF3
https://www.flickr.com/photos/adogriff/8367809031/in/photolist-fDeRk7-dKrd6v
https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt...9Y3-9dS7Qj-8WxnmG-8jmj7t-9aqfQF-dGRwFZ-6mA8A4 - not the towbus but the X63 next to it!

And a gratuitous shot to show said Eldon Square bus station - almost have emphysema looking at it!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nedba...TcN-8wDuvP-aELt6o-8GYhoL-8UQWHR-8iAYui-978NyA

Suffice to say that there really aren't that many places that have the requirement for dual doors (just to get this back on track) and I think the real move was a serious incident in Birmingham in the early 70s that saw dual doors go out of fashion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There is a bus priority/cycle scheme currently under construction on that corridor (unless construction has already finished?) with motor vehicles except buses being banned on pretty much exactly the part of the road you have just mentioned between 6am and 9pm.

Another place where you have crazy amount of students using the bus is in Utrecht, because the university was built a long way out of town. Normal artics are not enough, so they have 3 part bendy buses with 4 doors (Van Hool AGG300s) along with dedicated busways. However, there is now a tram under construction to replace that route.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQg2PGdBPsA (in old blue livery)

The Netherlands doesn't generally have open boarding on buses, but on that route there is. I've been there at university kicking out time and if they all had to board through the front door it would take forever.

If 3 part bendy buses are too long, then there is the Mercedes CapaCity where you still have a 2 part artic but you have 4 axles and 4 doors. They have them in Groningen and I find them an absolute joy to ride. They are obviously similar to Citaros, and I like them too, but I feel the CapaCity has the edge in ride quality, maybe because of the fourth axle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uxuiaSfwmY

Yes but we can't have bendis in London. Remember, London is unique....

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes but we can't have bendis in London. Remember, London is unique....

While I thought the Citaro standard artics worked very well for what they did, I'd say triple artics are a bit big for London.

 

[radamfi]

While I thought the Citaro standard artics worked very well for what they did, I'd say triple artics are a bit big for London.

But I'm sure you would approve of trams in London. The Van Hool AGG300 is 25 metres long, shorter than your typical modern tram.

 

[Bletchleyite]

But I'm sure you would approve of trams in London. The Van Hool AGG300 is 25 metres long, shorter than your typical modern tram.

The big difference between a long bus and a tram is that the tram will always take precisely the same path on the road, which is usually marked with dots on the road where there is shared use.

Yes, I certainly would support trams in London, there are a number of obvious places they would work (in addition to Croydon where they already exist).

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

The big difference between a long bus and a tram is that the tram will always take precisely the same path on the road, which is usually marked with dots on the road where there is shared use.

Yes, I certainly would support trams in London, there are a number of obvious places they would work (in addition to Croydon where they already exist).

The question would be two fold - one is the money to start a system up from scratch and secondly, the disruption to traffic and commerce would be politically toxic!

 

[Bletchleyite]

The question would be two fold - one is the money to start a system up from scratch

It was found for Crossrail, a hugely more expensive project.

and secondly, the disruption to traffic and commerce would be politically toxic!

It's quite possibly this that would stop it, particularly given how the Edinburgh debacle has put a very nasty taste in peoples' mouths.

 

[TheGrandWazoo]

It was found for Crossrail, a hugely more expensive project.



It's quite possibly this that would stop it, particularly given how the Edinburgh debacle has put a very nasty taste in peoples' mouths.

Indeed but it would be way down the list for capital projects. How long did it take for Crossrail to get the go ahead...

Both Edinburgh and Sheffield had a considerable impact on other businesses. Imagine that magnified with London

 

[Antman]

There are a couple of oblique references available: Brighton area Buswatch records it in their July newsletter, and there is a reference on the B&H website here:

http://www.buses.co.uk/page.aspx?pageid=501

It'll be interesting to see how things work out. Presumably a no change policy means a farebox? Most passengers have some sort of pre paid ticket anyway.

Clearly there's no right or wrong answer to single or dual doored buses and operators will make their own judgement. I can't see open boarding (ie no ticket check) ever being viable unless buses are made free at the point of use.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Services like the X82 and X87/88 terminate in the city centre as they weren't Corporation routes but were originally United services so they terminated at Haymarket/Eldon Square/Marlborough Cres bus stations IIRC.

Had a hunt on Flickr and found a few other examples of routes that seemingly were historically Busways/PTE/Corpy but were United

https://www.flickr.com/photos/markh737/5043733835/in/photolist-8iEesy-8FGsmc-5xVPF3
https://www.flickr.com/photos/adogriff/8367809031/in/photolist-fDeRk7-dKrd6v
https://www.flickr.com/photos/emdjt...9Y3-9dS7Qj-8WxnmG-8jmj7t-9aqfQF-dGRwFZ-6mA8A4 - not the towbus but the X63 next to it!

And a gratuitous shot to show said Eldon Square bus station - almost have emphysema looking at it!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/nedba...TcN-8wDuvP-aELt6o-8GYhoL-8UQWHR-8iAYui-978NyA

Suffice to say that there really aren't that many places that have the requirement for dual doors (just to get this back on track) and I think the real move was a serious incident in Birmingham in the early 70s that saw dual doors go out of fashion.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes but we can't have bendis in London. Remember, London is unique....

Nobody has said that have they?

Whilst bendybuses were not popular in Central London there is no reason why they couldn't be viable on certain routes outside the central area, without open boarding of course.

 

[Busaholic]

Whilst bendybuses were not popular in Central London there is no reason why they couldn't be viable on certain routes outside the central area, without open boarding of course.

They were hugely popular on both routes which used them that never left the central area i.e. the 507 and 521, which inaugurated the concept in London and were seen as a trial before more widespread introduction. The route that did for them in PR terms was the 73, a combination of unsuitability in Oxford Street and the fact that they directly replaced Routemasters with a significantly wider headway. Once Boris got elected they were doomed, however.