Scotrail Franchise - Abellio

[Sadsmileyface]

One of the comments is interesting...







Which stations have benefited from new flagpoles?

I can categorically state for a fact that no flag poles have been installed at any stations.

I don't know what Abellio are doing, but it should be pointed out that First made the toilet benchmarks by locking the toilets, so that you had to get a key from a member of the station staff. I remember "fondly" a particular merry-go-round at PGS.

No, before the auto doors and toilet pods became more common about ten years ago, almost all the "locked toilets" you describe were actually part of the national Radar key scheme. These were primarily provided for the use of disabled people but soon became available for all on request.

 

[ld0595]

Went for a walk tonight and saw on the departure screens at Dundee that the 23:49 to Perth was "Formed of 3 coaches"

Is this now a regular thing to display how many coaches the service has? I travelled pretty recently and I don't remember the screens displaying this.

 

[cf111]

Went for a walk tonight and saw on the departure screens at Dundee that the 23:49 to Perth was "Formed of 3 coaches"

Is this now a regular thing to display how many coaches the service has? I travelled pretty recently and I don't remember the screens displaying this.

I've only seen that when for whatever reason the train will be formed of less coaches than usual. No idea what the 2349 is normally formed of.

 

[ld0595]

I've only seen that when for whatever reason the train will be formed of less coaches than usual. No idea what the 2349 is normally formed of.

Yeah I've seen it display "Only 2 coaches - apologies" if it isn't a 170 for example, but the 23:49 is usually formed of 3 coaches anyway.

 

[380101]

Went for a walk tonight and saw on the departure screens at Dundee that the 23:49 to Perth was "Formed of 3 coaches"

Is this now a regular thing to display how many coaches the service has? I travelled pretty recently and I don't remember the screens displaying this.

It's a new thing they are trialling. Started today (monday).

 

[XC90]

It's a new trial to see if it helps reduces dwell times at stations by educating customers and to prevent them all piling through one door and over crowding 1 or 2 coaches whilst leaving the other half of the train empty.

It allows customers to move along the length of the train before it arrives on the platform.

 

[me123]

Fantastic. I've always wanted this. It will be helpful, I suspect it will spread the load throughout the train, and it will be particularly useful if trains are shorter than normal. In these instances, dwell time is already increased by virtue of trains being crush loaded, so knowing that the train is shorter concentrates people on the appropriate part of the platform.

 

[MadCommuter]

It's a new thing they are trialling. Started today (monday).

Not sure if you are referring to that particular line, but I have occasionally seen this at Argyle Street over the previous few months when services are shorter formed compared to the usual formation.

A welcome addition and hopefully people will pay attention to it.

 

[XC90]

scotrail regularly told customers when the train was short formed so people could expect it to be busy and they also advised when the next appropriate train was due.

The trial is for a different reason.

 

[me123]

scotrail regularly told customers when the train was short formed so people could expect it to be busy and they also advised when the next appropriate train was due.

In five years of commuting, the only time I noticed if my train was short formed was when it pulled around the corner. No announcements or warnings prior to this. I've never seen them announce this prior to departure. You would often get a pointless (but at least apologetic) automatic announcement on the train though. "We apologise for the lack of accommodation on this service. This is due to a shortage of available rolling stock" (or words to that effect).

 

[Butts]

Smoking is now banned on all ScotRail stations. Full Stop!

This is to bring us into line with other TOCs and Network Rail run stations. I agree that this has not been advertised extensively. Note although in most cases you will just receive a friendly warning, if indeed it is mentioned at all, from railway staff, where there are council enforcement officers you may risk a fine (sorry administrative penalty) of £50. :roll:

I have now witnessed some advertising material at Inverkeithing to the effect that you are correct that Abellio kyboshed Smoking from April of this year when they took over from Scotrail.

Strange there are no signs at Falkirk Grahamston or a lot of other Scotrail stations. People are still openly puffing away at FKG with in sight of Rail Staff without any comment being passed.

Have Council Enforcement Officers actually got any jurisdiction on Railway Stations ?

 

[380101]

I have now witnessed some advertising material at Inverkeithing to the effect that you are correct that Abellio kyboshed Smoking from April of this year when they took over from Scotrail.

Strange there are no signs at Falkirk Grahamston or a lot of other Scotrail stations. People are still openly puffing away at FKG with in sight of Rail Staff without any comment being passed.

Have Council Enforcement Officers actually got any jurisdiction on Railway Stations ?

No idea on the council enforcement officers, but the smoking legislation in Scotland DOES not cover outside spaces such as open platforms etc. In theory you can puff away all day and there is not much they can do apart from get all official on the PA tannoy and tell you to stop. It's not enforceable just as the smoking 'ban' on NHS outside spaces is unenforceable.

 

[ainsworth74]

No idea on the council enforcement officers, but the smoking legislation in Scotland DOES not cover outside spaces such as open platforms etc. In theory you can puff away all day and there is not much they can do apart from get all official on the PA tannoy and tell you to stop. It's not enforceable just as the smoking 'ban' on NHS outside spaces is unenforceable.

But the Railway Byelaws do apply and they would make it completely enforceable as long as there were signs forbidding it:

3. Smoking

No person shall smoke or carry a lighted pipe, cigar, cigarette, match, lighter or other lighted item on any part of the railway on or near which there is a notice indicating that smoking is not allowed.

 

[68000]

In five years of commuting, the only time I noticed if my train was short formed was when it pulled around the corner. No announcements or warnings prior to this. I've never seen them announce this prior to departure. You would often get a pointless (but at least apologetic) automatic announcement on the train though. "We apologise for the lack of accommodation on this service. This is due to a shortage of available rolling stock" (or words to that effect).

I have been commuting for 20 years in the Glasgow area and I also have not seen or heard prior announcement that the train consists of x coaches or is shortformed

 

[380101]

But the Railway Byelaws do apply and they would make it completely enforceable as long as there were signs forbidding it:

Byelaws need the BTP in Scotland to enforce them! And the BTP in Scotland is as rare as the Tories! To be honest attempting to ban smoking in outdoor public places is a petty rule which amounts to the state/big companies trying to dictate to the public. I dislike smoking immensely but to some people it is their only "pleasure" in life.

I'd rather the TOCs/BTP concentrated on making the railway safer and educating/prosecuting young people who think it's funny to throw objects at trains!

 

[route:oxford]

Have Council Enforcement Officers actually got any jurisdiction on Railway Stations ?

Different country, but Oxford City Council Council Officers have passed a PSPO to cover private land in the city.

The University is unimpressed.

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/13...will_be_allowed_on_land_of_Oxford_University/

 

[clc]

On the 1720 Central-East Kilbride service tonight we got this apology:

"....(inaudible)...needed elsewhere, so we've lost two o wur carriages"

No mention prior to boarding though.

 

[me123]

Lost two carriages, how careless of Scotrail. Maybe they'll turn up some day.

More seriously, is the 17:20 still booked for 6 carriages? Is the short forming perhaps due to the Forth Bridge closure?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Scotrail unveils £475m improvement plan

Or, rather, "Scotrail issues press release" as all of this information seems to be well known.

Refurbished Class 318 trains
All 21 of ScotRail's Class 318s are being fully refurbished inside and out, with new accessible toilets, wheelchairs spaces and companion seating. Further enhancements will also see power sockets fitted for the first time, with cycle storage, CCTV and free wifi to follow next year.

I think we knew all this?

Extra Class 320 trains
ScotRail will have rolled out seven additional, refurbished Class 320 three-carriage trains on Strathclyde routes by August next year.

Again, we know this. Is this confirmation that the 321s are being renumbered to 320s?

High Speed Trains
ScotRail's new High Speed Train fleet will be introduced from autumn 2017 and throughout 2018 and used on the Glasgow-Aberdeen, Edinburgh-Aberdeen, Glasgow-Inverness, Edinburgh-Inverness and Aberdeen-Inverness routes. As this fleet is made up of four and five-carriage trains, rather than current three-carriage trains, the seating capacity will increase on these services by, on average, 36%

Been discussed ad-nauseum. Mix of 4-5 cars confirmed again. Interesting that they talk about seating capacity increasing, as I suspect on the handful of services that already operate as 6 car trains this would represent a reduction in capacity

New electric Hitachi Class 385 trains
These 70 brand new trains will be rolled out by December 2018 on a number of routes in Central Scotland, including:
Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Queen Street via Falkirk High
Edinburgh Waverley - Dunblane / Alloa
Glasgow Queen Street - Dunblane / Alloa
Glasgow Queen Street - Cumbernauld / Falkirk Grahamston
Edinburgh Waverley - North Berwick / Dunbar / Berwick
Edinburgh Waverley - Glasgow Central
Glasgow Central - Newton / Neilston / Cathcart Circle
This will allow ScotRail to run trains of up to eight carriages on its flagship Edinburgh-Glasgow line.

Again, nothing new. Confirms the routes that the trains will run on.

I don't think the article really adds anything, maybe confirms a few details that we weren't certain on. But I've shared it anyway incase anyone's interested.

Interesting to see the BBC article using the actual class numbers. I suspect that most readers won't know (or care) what a "class 320 train" is.

 

[Blindtraveler]

No mention of things like refurbishment of the remaning 170s and 156s, and confirmation of the Tops Number of the new units.
I guess they are getting majorly bad press lately they have done this to make themselves look good.

 

[Altnabreac]

No mention of things like refurbishment of the remaning 170s and 156s, and confirmation of the Tops Number of the new units.
I guess they are getting majorly bad press lately they have done this to make themselves look good.

156s are getting a "refresh" as part of the scenic railway initiative.

170s will need some work to do things like install plug sockets in standard class and have Scotrail branding applied but given many will be going off lease in 2018/19 I guess only a subset of the 170s will be tackled.

 

[Rhydgaled]

Again, nothing new. Confirms the routes that the trains will run on.

I don't think the article really adds anything, maybe confirms a few details that we weren't certain on. But I've shared it anyway incase anyone's interested.

"New electric Hitachi Class 385 trains" I've not seen the class number for ScotRails new Hitachi units before, so that might be new information.

 

[me123]

I'm sure the class number has been released before. It certainly wasn't news to me. But I don't think I'd seen it on the forum.

 

[sprinterguy]

Mix of 4-5 cars confirmed again. Interesting that they talk about seating capacity increasing, as I suspect on the handful of services that already operate as 6 car trains this would represent a reduction in capacity

Based on the capacity of the "express" 170s that the HSTs will mainly be replacing, it will represent a fair old drop in capacity: 36 first, 336 standard class seats on a 6-car 170, and 30 first, 276 standard class seats on a 2+5 HST. A fair bit more standing room across a pair of 170s, too.

 

[Altnabreac]

I'm sure the class number has been released before. It certainly wasn't news to me. But I don't think I'd seen it on the forum.

It was in Rail magazine last month but I think this is the first time I've seen it noted in an official publication by Scotrail, Hitachi or Transport Scotland.

 

[Haydn1971]

I'm sure the class number has been released before. It certainly wasn't news to me. But I don't think I'd seen it on the forum.

It's been around at least six weeks as there's a Wikipedia article - also, mentioned here

 

[47271]

It's a good point on the 170s which are expected to provide the flagship services for quite a while yet. They may well be going off in two or three years but too many of them are still running around with their original interiors, or certainly at least a partially reupholstered version of them. The youngest ones must be at least 11 years old now and look to have never been touched. A few are starting to look quite threadbare.

I can't remember the last time I got on one that looked or smelled like it had been recently refurbed into Saltire. To be fair, they're all still perfectly comfortable (unlike the collapsed seat 158s) and are kept clean enough but if they're holding back a batch to go off lease then they're going to become very ropey indeed by that time.

I've yet to travel on one (maybe there still is only one?) of the Saltire interior 158s. Still bum crunchers all round whenever I get on them!

 

[47802]

It's a good point on the 170s which are expected to provide the flagship services for quite a while yet. They may well be going off in two or three years but too many of them are still running around with their original interiors, or certainly at least a partially reupholstered version of them. The youngest ones must be at least 11 years old now and look to have never been touched. A few are starting to look quite threadbare.

I can't remember the last time I got on one that looked or smelled like it had been recently refurbed into Saltire. To be fair, they're all still perfectly comfortable (unlike the collapsed seat 158s) and are kept clean enough but if they're holding back a batch to go off lease then they're going to become very ropey indeed by that time.

I've yet to travel on one (maybe there still is only one?) of the Saltire interior 158s. Still bum crunchers all round whenever I get on them!

You have obviously never travelled on Northern then if you think Scotrail 170 interiors are now bad.

I was on a couple of Scotrail 170's a few months back seemed to be in a reasonable state and perfectly comfortable for me, slightly bemused as to why Scotrail accepted a bid to replace a 15 year old train with a nearly 40 year old one, the 1/3 2/3 door split doesn't particularly bother me that much and if the vestibule doors end up being moved to the corridor connection like the Chiltern MK3's I'm not sure the draughts will be much less.

 

[Highland37]

You have obviously never travelled on Northern then if you think Scotrail 170 interiors are now bad.

I was on a couple of Scotrail 170's a few months back seemed to be in a reasonable state and perfectly comfortable for me, slightly bemused as to why Scotrail accepted a bid to replace a 15 year old train with a nearly 40 year old one, the 1/3 2/3 door split doesn't particularly bother me that much and if the vestibule doors end up being moved to the corridor connection like the Chiltern MK3's I'm not sure the draughts will be much less.

As a regular traveller on the 170s, with colleagues and youth groups, I can say with some certainty that very few people will miss them. They are cramped, noisy, some now pretty dirty and worn out inside and too short.

Pretty much everyone currently prefers the HST. Whether that will remain the case depends on how they perform in the future.

 

[najaB]

Based on the capacity of the "express" 170s that the HSTs will mainly be replacing, it will represent a fair old drop in capacity: 36 first, 336 standard class seats on a 6-car 170, and 30 first, 276 standard class seats on a 2+5 HST. A fair bit more standing room across a pair of 170s, too.

How often do 170's run paired up though? Much more common to have them running solo, or paired up with a 158.

 

[47802]

As a regular traveller on the 170s, with colleagues and youth groups, I can say with some certainty that very few people will miss them. They are cramped, noisy, some now pretty dirty and worn out inside and too short.

Pretty much everyone currently prefers the HST. Whether that will remain the case depends on how they perform in the future.

Well each to there own I suppose we will have to strongly disagree on that one in comparison to some stuff turned out by Northern Scotrail 170's are luxury. I've always found 170's to be one of the more quieter DMU's, and had they been retained capacity issues could have been addressed with the release of units from the Scottish electrification Schemes, to me HST's how ever much you tart them up these days look like clapped out 40 year old trains, it will interesting to see what reliability is like long term.