Halton Curve upgrade is on

[The Planner]

She needs to hope that Hendy doesn't decide that Weaver Wavertree resignalling and Lime St don't get postponed or put back then, unless of course he gets the Tippex out after hearing that.

 

[Railman]

I think whatever work was being done was triggered by the new Mersey Crossing scheme. As I have said before, look at the Mersey Gateway website and look at the scale of what is being done, and we cant even re-instate a double line Railway!
If NR can't get the Re-Signalling work done as promised (Grand Weaver -Wavertree scheme) then they should be Forced to re-instate the Chord on the original Signalboxes. That after all, is the only reason they were built where they where, in the last century.
Halton Junction and Frodsham Junction, just put the junctions Back!

 

[childwallblues]

I see that "Wales Online" has a picture of a Class 144 for its ATW to Manchester Airport article. 144s have never operated for ATW and almost certainly never been to Manchester Airport.

 

[po8crg]

I see that "Wales Online" has a picture of a Class 144 for its ATW to Manchester Airport article. 144s have never operated for ATW and almost certainly never been to Manchester Airport.

Unless they've changed the picture, that's a pair of ATW-branded 143s. That would never serve Manchester Airport either, of course - I'm assuming it would be a 175 - but they are ATW trains.

 

[northwichcat]

Unless they've changed the picture, that's a pair of ATW-branded 143s. That would never serve Manchester Airport either, of course - I'm assuming it would be a 175 - but they are ATW trains.

158s and 175s are both used on North Wales/Chester-Manchester services and I think 150s are used for strengthening at times.

 

[PHILIPE]

158s and 175s are both used on North Wales/Chester-Manchester services and I think 150s are used for strengthening at times.

There is normally no strengthening, but 150s on occasions deputise for the normal 175s and the lesser used 158s.

 

[childwallblues]

Unless they've changed the picture, that's a pair of ATW-branded 143s. That would never serve Manchester Airport either, of course - I'm assuming it would be a 175 - but they are ATW trains.

Have ATW 143s ever operated in this area? I doubt it.

 

[Whistler40145]

I very much doubt it, unless someone can provide some evidence. AFAIK they ventured to Carlisle and Middlesbrough whilst based at Heaton Depot.

 

[PHILIPE]

Have ATW 143s ever operated in this area? I doubt it.

Never. They couldn't get there from their base in Canton anyway due to route restrictions. Nor ATW 142s either which are treated as Fleet for operational purposes.

 

[craigybagel]

I very much doubt it, unless someone can provide some evidence. AFAIK they ventured to Carlisle and Middlesbrough whilst based at Heaton Depot.

Never. They couldn't get there from their base in Canton anyway due to route restrictions. Nor ATW 142s either which are treated as Fleet for operational purposes.

Not cleared north of Craven Arms I believe. In any case there are no traincrew who sign them and also sign north of Crewe. It would put a stop to people complaining about 150s if they ever did manage to send one up though

 

[D1009]

Not cleared north of Craven Arms I believe.

Certainly the route was used by 142s years ago when they were transferred from Newton Heath to Exeter running as ECS obviously.

 

[craigybagel]

Certainly the route was used by 142s years ago when they were transferred from Newton Heath to Exeter running as ECS obviously.

Where's ThePlanner when you need him?

 

[The Planner]

You called?

 

[PHILIPE]

Certainly the route was used by 142s years ago when they were transferred from Newton Heath to Exeter running as ECS obviously.

Special dispensation can be given for such moves. I may be wrong, but I thought they went via Cheltenham and Birmingham area.

 

[craigybagel]

You called?

If you could be so kind, are there any restrictions on 14x units north of Abergavenny? I know they have or at least had aa booked weekend job that far north......

 

[PHILIPE]

If you could be so kind, are there any restrictions on 14x units north of Abergavenny? I know they have or at least had aa booked weekend job that far north......

They used to work the 00 30 Cardiff to Hereford at one time and I have heard of one attached to 150 on the 10 08 Hereford to Fishguard Hbr on a Sunday.

 

[craigybagel]

They used to work the 00 30 Cardiff to Hereford at one time and I have heard of one attached to 150 on the 10 08 Hereford to Fishguard Hbr on a Sunday.

Interesting. The unit on the night Hereford ends up on the 2155 Cardiff - Crewe the next night now so it needs to be a 150, unless a swap takes place during the day. This is getting very off topic though.....

 

[PHILIPE]

Interesting. The unit on the night Hereford ends up on the 2155 Cardiff - Crewe the next night now so it needs to be a 150, unless a swap takes place during the day. This is getting very off topic though.....

Yes, 150 now on return from Hereford goes to Barry Island.

 

[Cheshire Rover]

Very much off topic and as far as I am aware 142's are not permitted on the Halton Curve ☺

 

[absolutelymilk]

So would services from Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn on the Halton Curve be operated by Merseyrail or Northern? (Or even the Wales and Borders franchise and extend it to Wrexham/along the North Wales Coast line?)

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

So would services from Chester to Liverpool via Runcorn on the Halton Curve be operated by Merseyrail or Northern? (Or even the Wales and Borders franchise and extend it to Wrexham/along the North Wales Coast line?)

Not Merseyrail, as presently constituted (DC only, no plans to extend to Runcorn, even on AC).
Could be either Northern or Wales & Borders.
It will probably come to a head when W&B is tendered in 2017.
What we still don't know is Network Rail's timescale for the upgrade (and Liverpool-Weaver Jn generally).
The project will probably be sponsored by the Welsh Government and Merseytravel (Cheshire being as always a sleeping partner).

 

[absolutelymilk]

Not Merseyrail, as presently constituted (DC only, no plans to extend to Runcorn, even on AC).
Could be either Northern or Wales & Borders.
It will probably come to a head when W&B is tendered in 2017.
What we still don't know is Network Rail's timescale for the upgrade (and Liverpool-Weaver Jn generally).
The project will probably be sponsored by the Welsh Government and Merseytravel (Cheshire being as always a sleeping partner).

The invitation to tender doesn't go out until August 2017, wasn't work supposed to be starting then? (in conjunction with the Weaver/Wavertree signalling?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

The invitation to tender doesn't go out until August 2017, wasn't work supposed to be starting then? (in conjunction with the Weaver/Wavertree signalling?

It was, and may still happen, but this project is subject to the general constraints on signalling resource.
A lot of other signalling work has to happen in the same timescale (Ordsall Chord, Huyton 4-tracking, Blackpool remodelling etc etc).
Even Wrexham-Chester redoubling is not finished yet.
The Halton Curve is not "vital" in quite the same way.

 

[Sox]

Is it the case that the existing track layout can only take traffic in one direction, i.e. Chester to Runcorn (seems an odd state of affairs)?

 

[edwin_m]

Is it the case that the existing track layout can only take traffic in one direction, i.e. Chester to Runcorn (seems an odd state of affairs)?

Yes. Someone will know the reason, but I guess it is because one or other of the crossovers for access towards Chester needed some money spending. As the future of the route was uncertain they just took it out instead.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Is it the case that the existing track layout can only take traffic in one direction, i.e. Chester to Runcorn (seems an odd state of affairs)?

The second (southbound) track and the crossovers leading to it at both ends were removed years ago (most recently at the Runcorn end during the WCRM programme).
So the line is only usable in the northbound direction.
A new layout is needed at Halton Jn and will be to modern spec with new signalling.
Hence it is all being lumped into the major resignalling scheme for the Edge Hill-Weaver Jn line, which hasn't started yet.
I don't know what is planned for the Frodsham end, as there are still 3 manual boxes on the line with semaphore signals (Norton, Frodsham Jn, Helsby).

 

[craigybagel]

I remember years ago a rail magazine described it as "half a double track" as opposed to a conventional single line. Seemingly when the line was singled all they did was remove one of the tracks without making any adjusments to the other to allow for bidirectional running.

 

[Sox]

I suppose we must be grateful for small mercies, at least they retained the route (if only partially).

 

[Railman]

We used to cover Halton junction in the 1980s, and the junction was 2 x single leads with switch diamonds to form a double junction. I think it was No8 points the switch diamonds. they were a "reliability" issue and at the time there was a "money squeeze". So as there was no booked service that could not be diverted (frieght only as required) the switch diamonds were plain lined along with the up main connection. It was not a proper recovery as it was also a minimum spend job, so all the wirring and interlocking remained. The signal had the route indicator removed although its mounting frame was still left in situ, and could be seen around the signal head for a long time afterwards. Don't know if it is still there. Maybe there has been some work done since to recover equipment but at the time it could have been reinstated in a weekend. (BR working)
I thought in all the press releases on the chord, the Welsh Government had put up the £10m to re-instate the connection. So it would seem logical that they should have some say over what sort of service is run and who provides it?

 

[Sox]

So, I guess it must have looked something like this: