Not a good day for VTEC from Aberdeen (13/12)

[Furrball]

Today southbound
0947 s.b cancelled (started from Dundee)
11.47 over 60 late at present
13.47 left over 120 late and terminated at Edinburgh

Over the past few days lots of short formed VTEC noted reported also

 

[Norther Monkey]

Any idea on the causes?

Scotrail's 3 car 170s were, as you might expect, bursting at the seams. Not a pleasant run down to Edinburgh!

 

[embers25]

Today southbound
0947 s.b cancelled (started from Dundee)
11.47 over 60 late at present
13.47 left over 120 late and terminated at Edinburgh

Over the past few days lots of short formed VTEC noted reported also

1147 was delayed as only ran on one power car. Would have been less than 60 late but for a minute signal stop in Peterborough for no apparent reason. What was far more ridiculous was XC taking passengers from Aberdeen to Edinburgh but at the very last minute refusing to take them further south by withdrawing ticket acceptance ONE minute before the 1408 to Plymouth left Edinburgh. They instructed all the passengers to get off or pay the full single fare, hence why it left late. Very poor.

 

[route:oxford]

What was far more ridiculous was XC taking passengers from Aberdeen to Edinburgh but at the very last minute refusing to take them further south by withdrawing ticket acceptance ONE minute before the 1408 to Plymouth left Edinburgh. They instructed all the passengers to get off or pay the full single fare, hence why it left late. Very poor.

That was very poor behaviour.

It would be interesting to see how the mid-journey change of contract would have been dealt with in the courts if the passenger refused to pay.

Would it be dealt with under Scot's law for a passenger boarding at Aberdeen, or English law as they are dragged off the train by BTP at Newcastle?

 

[Bletchleyite]

This is one flaw in ticket acceptance - a similar one is that you go to work by way of acceptance from another TOC, but can't go back to your car or bike the same way as it is later withdrawn.

FWIW many peoples' tickets would have been valid on XC anyway.

 

[embers25]

That was very poor behaviour.

It would be interesting to see how the mid-journey change of contract would have been dealt with in the courts if the passenger refused to pay.

Would it be dealt with under Scot's law for a passenger boarding at Aberdeen, or English law as they are dragged off the train by BTP at Newcastle?

The lady opposite me was travelling from Arbroath to Exeter and was booked on the 0947 from Aberdeen via London and refused to get off the XC as she was told she'd be able to use it to go direct but was forced to get off at Edinburgh (she did protest) and ended up on the delayed VTEC. She ended up in Exeter at 2317 rather late. OK XC would only have got in 30 minutes earlier but that wasn't really the point. Couple this with VTEC refusing to accept VTWC tickets despite the fatality at Euxton and quite frankly it was a very poor day for passengers, made worse by typical TOC refusal to help.
As for the legal position it would have been Scottish as the police were called at Edinburgh when passengers protested...it was only when the guard threatened to charge anyone remaining the full single fare to their destination that they all got off.
One thing that was obvious was that al the guards I encountered wanted to help passengers but control kept giving dud or too late advice on delays/alternative routes/ticket acceptance leaving the guards to deal with all the irate passengers.

 

[route:oxford]

As for the legal position it would have been Scottish as the police were called at Edinburgh when passengers protested...it was only when the guard threatened to charge anyone remaining the full single fare to their destination that they all got off.

That's impressive!

Police attending with a minute to spare to protect revenue over customer service.

 

[Bletchleyite]

To put the other side of the view, had they stayed on the XC would it have resulted in passengers with no other choice being left behind later in its journey? Or was it a 10-car or HST?

 

[theironroad]

The lady opposite me was travelling from Arbroath to Exeter and was booked on the 0947 from Aberdeen via London and refused to get off the XC as she was told she'd be able to use it to go direct but was forced to get off at Edinburgh (she did protest) and ended up on the delayed VTEC. She ended up in Exeter at 2317 rather late. OK XC would only have got in 30 minutes earlier but that wasn't really the point. Couple this with VTEC refusing to accept VTWC tickets despite the fatality at Euxton and quite frankly it was a very poor day for passengers, made worse by typical TOC refusal to help.
As for the legal position it would have been Scottish as the police were called at Edinburgh when passengers protested...it was only when the guard threatened to charge anyone remaining the full single fare to their destination that they all got off.
One thing that was obvious was that al the guards I encountered wanted to help passengers but control kept giving dud or too late advice on delays/alternative routes/ticket acceptance leaving the guards to deal with all the irate passengers.

While it is admirable the lady wanted to travel by train, I can't but help feel a flight from Aberdeen to Exeter would have been a lot lot quicker...

 

[sprinterguy]

To put the other side of the view, had they stayed on the XC would it have resulted in passengers with no other choice being left behind later in its journey? Or was it a 10-car or HST?

Four car Voyager on that service.

 

[embers25]

Four car Voyager on that service.

The 4 car voyager was one of the reasons XC gave for withdrawing acceptance which I can understand to a point. It wasn't the withdrawal of acceptance for that reason that was the issue really it was the withdrawal being done at the very last minute and very rudely. Logistically it made sense sort of but the way it was executed was very poor as the XC was there in time for people to catch the 1400 to Kings Cross with a quick run (if you knew about it) but they only made the decision to remove acceptance after the 1400 had gone leaving everyone to wait for the delayed 1430.

 

[me123]

While it is admirable the lady wanted to travel by train, I can't but help feel a flight from Aberdeen to Exeter would have been a lot lot quicker...

It may be quicker in theory, but there are no direct flights between the two airports. bmi regional's flight to Bristol is the only flight that comes close. And with a quick search giving return fares over £500, it ain't a cheap way to get vaguely close to your destination. You can change at Birmingham with flybe, but that's not too cheap either (£250 return, without luggage) and has the hassle of a transfer.

An advance ticket is very likely to be your cheapest option by far TBH.

 

[sprinterguy]

It may be quicker in theory, but there are no direct flights between the two airports. bmi regional's flight to Bristol is the only flight that comes close. And with a quick search giving return fares over £500, it ain't a cheap way to get vaguely close to your destination. You can change at Birmingham with flybe, but that's not too cheap either (£250 return, without luggage) and has the hassle of a transfer.

An advance ticket is very likely to be your cheapest option by far TBH.

Blimey, where on earth have you derived those sky high (excuse the pun ) figures from?

If advance tickets are what we are looking at, then choosing a pair of dates in late February and ensuring that the outward journey is on a Sunday (21st February), returning on an arbitrarily chosen weekday (24th February), then it is possible to fly with BMI from Aberdeen to Bristol for £110 outbound, £100 on the return.

With Flybe, you can fly from Aberdeen to Exeter, via a change in Manchester, for £70 each way. The best advance single fare the railway can come up with for either of the same pair of journeys is £74.80: Most are £20, or even £40 more, and barring one direct train on a weekday all will require a change anyway. Plus the train is tediously slow over such a distance, to the extent that IMO it is preferable to fly even for a journey such as Aberdeen to Birmingham, let alone Exeter.

Also, for a passenger travelling from Arbroath looking to avoid travelling north to go south, note that there are direct Flybe flights from Edinburgh Airport to Exeter - for as little as £35.54 on the return flight (£62.94 outbound).

 

[me123]

Late December/early January (don't recall the exact dates I'm afraid). Better fares are, of course, available in advance. Flying from Edinburgh airport is, of course, the best option. Fares are disproportionately lower from the Central belt.

I'd definitely fly if I needed to do that journey (flying direct from Edinburgh), but some people like taking a leisurely rail journey. I'm sure plenty of people on here would enjoy a long run from North East Scotland to South West England. If you have time and a good book to read, there's no reason why you can't enjoy the journey. Assuming it goes to plan, which it clearly didn't here.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Control need to let the frontline staff make the decisions, as its the eyes on the ground that can see what is going on and has to deal with the fallout from dodgy decisions!

 

[sprinterguy]

Control need to let the frontline staff make the decisions, as its the eyes on the ground that can see what is going on and has to deal with the fallout from dodgy decisions!

Although it can also be argued that only Control are in a position to make decisions in response to "the bigger picture", whereas frontline staff at ground level (and this is not to denigrate their efforts whatsoever) are more likely to be restricted to a localised view of the problem. A decision that might seem nonsensical at one location might have more benefits than disadvantages in terms of delay, disruption, overcrowding, etc at multiple locations further down the line (although not always - Control are as human and prone to errors of judgement as the rest of us!).

Where it all falls down of course is that Control are only as good as the information that they receive, and an incomplete picture can result in inappropriate decisions being made.