Mobile Phones in the cab

[34D]

Surely GSM-R is a mobile phone or 'cellphone' just the same way as an iPhone 6+ is? They both have a sim card and a thing you speak into?

As someone who regularly uses a mobile while driving car coach or bus (obviously with bluetooth) I don't really see an issue.

Would be interested to see a proper study done on 'professional' drivers in this regard.

 

[Elecman]

As I understand Network rail cited some actual evidence that using a mobile phone on hands free is more dangerous than driving under the influence of alcohol, that's what they cited when banning use of mobile phones when driving under Thier lifesaving rules.

 

[ExRes]

Personally I was more than happy when we were told not to use mobiles in the driving cab, if nothing else it stopped the TCS from ringing to find out if you would do him 12 hours on your rest day while you were at the controls

I have no idea why anyone needs to have access to a mobile while they're driving a train except in the case of an emergency, even then it would be only a back up to the systems provided for that purpose

I am totally stumped at just what things people find to keep them fiddling with their phones on a regular basis, if it's things like twitter then all the more reason for them to be banned

For those who think that drivers should have access to phones, your opinions please on your thoughts about a driver who pulls into your station nattering on a phone instead of concentrating on his/her job and stops short/overruns, your opinions also on the wave of twitter messages complaining about "I've seen a train driver on his/her mobile while they were driving"

 

[neilb62]

Surely GSM-R is a mobile phone or 'cellphone' just the same way as an iPhone 6+ is? They both have a sim card and a thing you speak into?

As someone who regularly uses a mobile while driving car coach or bus (obviously with bluetooth) I don't really see an issue.

Would be interested to see a proper study done on 'professional' drivers in this regard.

It's nothing like, its a radio, not a phone, it's just the radio system works on 'cell's to split it up into areas. And (for emergency calls) it still utilises a push-to-talk handset. There is no need for constant communication in the cab, its there when we need it and on virtually every signal post in the same way its been for donkeys-years. I see GSM-R as a quicker simpler way of stopping the job in an emergency and little more. The signal reminder (seat shaker) feature is a bonus though.

 

[najaB]

It's nothing like, its a radio, not a phone, it's just the radio system works on 'cell's to split it up into areas. And (for emergency calls) it still utilises a push-to-talk handset.

Splitting hairs, you're both right. Push-to-talk has never been popular in Europe but used to be (and may still be) a common offering for US mobile phone providers. The fact that they almost all use dialled party pays explains why PTT is so much more common as it is cheaper per second and messages are normally shorter than conversations.

 

[455driver]

I was using the GSM-R handset when I pulled into a station the other day, what exactly is the difference between doing that and having the same conversation on a mobile phone?

And for what its worth I don't want my mobile on in the cab either!

 

[notadriver]

Surely GSM-R is a mobile phone or 'cellphone' just the same way as an iPhone 6+ is? They both have a sim card and a thing you speak into?



As someone who regularly uses a mobile while driving car coach or bus (obviously with bluetooth) I don't really see an issue.



Would be interested to see a proper study done on 'professional' drivers in this regard.

I thought it was generally company policy that the use of any telephone or hands free device was not permitted while driving buses or coaches.

Of course the law permits hands free devices to be used by pcv drivers on the move but I think it's completely to do so and I don't do it.

I've mentioned before it is often necessary for train drivers to talk to the Signaller or make public announcements (on DOO trains for example) whilst on the move under ideal conditions. National express coaches do not allow their drivers to make PA announcements never mind talk on a hands free device on the move.

 

[Fahad]

I was using the GSM-R handset when I pulled into a station the other day, what exactly is the difference between doing that and having the same conversation on a mobile phone?

And for what its worth I don't want my mobile on in the cab either!

GSM-Railway is an international wireless communications standard for railway communication and applications. It is used for communication between train and railway regulation control centres. GSM-R should only be used by the railway operational staff, including drivers, dispatchers, shunting team members, train engineers, and station controllers.

 

[SPADTrap]

GSM-Railway is an international wireless communications standard for railway communication and applications. It is used for communication between train and railway regulation control centres. GSM-R should only be used by the railway operational staff, including drivers, dispatchers, shunting team members, train engineers, and station controllers.

There is no difference from a 'non technical skills' aspect; distraction and so on.

The contents or purpose of the call does not change the risk.

 

[Llanigraham]

GSM-Railway is an international wireless communications standard for railway communication and applications. It is used for communication between train and railway regulation control centres. GSM-R should only be used by the railway operational staff, including drivers, dispatchers, shunting team members, train engineers, and station controllers.

Somewhat pedantic language, which I'm guessing might be a straight translation of something foreign, especially as there are terms that do not apply in the UK.

 

[455driver]

GSM-Railway is an international wireless communications standard for railway communication and applications. It is used for communication between train and railway regulation control centres. GSM-R should only be used by the railway operational staff, including drivers, dispatchers, shunting team members, train engineers, and station controllers.

Thank you for teaching me to suck eggs, oh and you missed to point completely, well done! :roll:

 

[68000]

I was using the GSM-R handset when I pulled into a station the other day, what exactly is the difference between doing that and having the same conversation on a mobile phone?

And for what its worth I don't want my mobile on in the cab either!

From a distraction point of view, probably not much different. From a cut off of your conversation if the signaller wants to speak to you, very different

 

[ComUtoR]

From a cut off of your conversation if the signaller wants to speak to you, very different

This was raised earlier and I do agree. Consider that if you are in the cab the GSMR would be on. If an emergency call came on then you would cut off your conversation.

I have had the Signaller ask me for my mobile number.

 

[scott118]

I've had lots of people ask for my mobile too....

 

[D1009]

I thought it was generally company policy that the use of any telephone or hands free device was not permitted while driving buses or coaches.

Of course the law permits hands free devices to be used by pcv drivers on the move but I think it's completely to do so and I don't do it.

I've mentioned before it is often necessary for train drivers to talk to the Signaller or make public announcements (on DOO trains for example) whilst on the move under ideal conditions. National express coaches do not allow their drivers to make PA announcements never mind talk on a hands free device on the move.

I've had the misfortune to have travelled on rail replacement buses, and have noticed frequent use of mobile phones by the driver, usually but not always hands free. This is usually to do with the organisation of the operation. Given that the coach driver is the only link with the outside world during the journey of the vehicle, are we saying that ALL communication should be banned in this circumstance?

 

[notadriver]

I've had the misfortune to have travelled on rail replacement buses, and have noticed frequent use of mobile phones by the driver, usually but not always hands free. This is usually to do with the organisation of the operation. Given that the coach driver is the only link with the outside world during the journey of the vehicle, are we saying that ALL communication should be banned in this circumstance?

Well when I was on national express as a coach driver I was not allowed to make or answer calls or use the microphone on the move. So the driver should pull over in a safe place if a call needs to be made.

In any case I've never known replacement bus drivers get information that is of benefit to the passengers. They usually know next to nothing of what trains are running and their times. That is left to the station staff or replacement bus controllers.

 

[carriageline]

This was raised earlier and I do agree. Consider that if you are in the cab the GSMR would be on. If an emergency call came on then you would cut off your conversation.



I have had the Signaller ask me for my mobile number.

To be fair, it can be very handy if your out chasing a fault, or changing ends! I've forgotten once, and had to do a PA announcement for the driver to contact us!

 

[Fahad]

There is no difference from a 'non technical skills' aspect; distraction and so on.

The contents or purpose of the call does not change the risk.

Well I was talking about the tech stuff. But it only created confusion. Thanks for clearing it out though. Cheers
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Somewhat pedantic language, which I'm guessing might be a straight translation of something foreign, especially as there are terms that do not apply in the UK.

If you see it "technically" the terms do apply. But as somebody mentioned already, there is no significant difference.

 

[ryan125hst]

I've just seen a video that made me decide to look up the rules of mobile phones in cabs afterwards, hence finding and posting in this thread!

I don't wish to get anyone into trouble, but safety is the number one priority on the railway, so what do you make of this? The driver of this Class 67 which is hauling an Orient Express service firstly lets a few kids in the cab with cameras. He's seen on a tablet (it looks like his diagram is on there?) and there are two mobile phones on the drivers desk as well as a radio. I'm guessing the radio is for communications with the guard as I doubt there will be any other means of communication on those old (1920's?) carriages, and the phones appear to be off but they are both right in front of him next to the controls. The DRA isn't set as the signal is green, but the train is stationary at the platform.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIgxgIf3tUg

Even with the train stationary, it made me feel a bit uneasy. The kids seemed to love it-they're bound to as they even got to sound the horn- but from a safety point of view, it probably wasn't the drivers best move...

 

[the sniper]

I've just seen a video that made me decide to look up the rules of mobile phones in cabs afterwards, hence finding and posting in this thread!

I don't wish to get anyone into trouble, but safety is the number one priority on the railway, so what do you make of this?

What do I make of it? I make nothing of it. It's another reason though why most rail staff are deeply distrustful of enthusiasts nowadays and why everyone has to cover their own arse, even if they're doing nothing wrong...

 

[XC90]

Do you need to use the DRA when your sitting stationery 10ft in front of a signal?

Made the 2 boys day!

 

[ryan125hst]

If this is not against any rules, then he's a great driver and good on him for letting the kids have a look in the cab. I didn't want to annoy anyone, I just wanted to know whether what he was doing was permitted.

 

[ComUtoR]

I've just seen a video that made me decide to look up the rules of mobile phones in cabs afterwards, hence finding and posting in this thread!

What rules did you find ?

Even with the train stationary, it made me feel a bit uneasy.

Why ?

The kids seemed to love it-they're bound to as they even got to sound the horn- but from a safety point of view, it probably wasn't the drivers best move...

From a safety point of view what was unsafe ? I thought the Driver done a great job. There is often complaints on this forum about a "them and us" attitude. This was a good example of a Driver breaking those barriers.

@XC90 no you don't.
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I just wanted to know whether what he was doing was permitted.

It's not permitted. There are strict guidelines to who is allowed access to the cab.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Even with the train stationary, it made me feel a bit uneasy. The kids seemed to love it-they're bound to as they even got to sound the horn- but from a safety point of view, it probably wasn't the drivers best move...

Christ, in my day, the kids would have had a go at driving the damn thing after it had arrived 10 minutes early thanks to a slightly faster than permitted run with the driver not really worrying about speed limits.

 

[Elecman]

Christ, in my day, the kids would have had a go at driving the damn thing after it had arrived 10 minutes early thanks to a slightly faster than permitted run with the driver not really worrying about speed limits.

And in mine along with unofficial rides out to the sidings and back

 

[the sniper]

If this is not against any rules, then he's a great driver and good on him for letting the kids have a look in the cab. I didn't want to annoy anyone, I just wanted to know whether what he was doing was permitted.

Railway Gestapo, RailUK Department, strikes again.

 

[ryan125hst]

What rules did you find ?

Why ?


From a safety point of view what was unsafe ? I thought the Driver done a great job. There is often complaints on this forum about a "them and us" attitude. This was a good example of a Driver breaking those barriers.

1)I found this thread first, hence posting here.

2) The phones on the desk, kids being allowed into the cab and touching controls etc.

3) It's great to see that the driver breaking those barriers, but we all how strict everything is these days. I'm not saying I agree with everything however.
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I wish I'd not posted now to be honest.

 

[SPADTrap]

What a cracking driver and nice guy!

 

[ComUtoR]

1)I found this thread first, hence posting here.

This is more of a discussion rather than any hard and fast rules about mobile phones in the cab.

2) The phones on the desk, kids being allowed into the cab and touching controls etc.

I still don't see why it makes you uneasy. Is there a trust issue ? Is it because you have the belief that its not allowed ? What do you see as unsafe ? From my perspective everyone acted genuinely and safety wise I saw nothing untoward or dangerous. The problem is a matter of perspective. What prompted my starting this thread was that another forumite had reported mobile phone use but on discussion its unclear on the reasons why that Driver was on the phone or what is specifically restricted. Yet the Driver was still reported. Perception and understanding is everything.

3) It's great to see that the driver breaking those barriers, but we all how strict everything is these days. I'm not saying I agree with everything however.

Yes everything is strict and rightly so. However there has to be context. I would say that whilst most Drivers know 100% that what he did was strictly against the rules. No one was put at danger, a member of the public had a great experience and safety was never compromised. Personally I was weirded out about why he stopped on a green.

I wish I'd not posted now to be honest.

I'm not. I'm very glad you did. Your perspective is that something was wrong and potentially unsafe. That misconception is getting Drivers reported and often where there is no fault.

Feel free to look back over the thread and contribute to where you feel you have questions or opinions.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

What a cracking driver and nice guy!

+1

I know I'm a little out of step with the clipboard wielding H&S auditor types, but I prefer people who properly know what's safe and unsafe, rather than those who only do what it says in the rule book, and can't spot one of the few occasions when the rule book can lead you into a bit of an (death) trap.