Northern franchise awarded to Arriva.

[anti-pacer]

I don't see how the 333s will be able to operate in a mixed fleet.

Judging by what is said for Doncaster, I expect that a small number of 333s may be kept by Arriva. The rest will go, possibly to Heathrow Express (if they still want them then) or somewhere else.

Wouldn't it make sense to send them west to operate what's currently being operated by 319's?

 

[JaJaWa]

I don't see how the 333s will be able to operate in a mixed fleet.

Judging by what is said for Doncaster, I expect that a small number of 333s may be kept by Arriva. The rest will go, possibly to Heathrow Express (if they still want them then) or somewhere else.

This was a merely a joke raised by me as the company asking for a rolling stock manager in Leeds had only worked with Northern Rail and Heathrow Express before - unless it's been suggested seriously elsewhere!

 

[swt_passenger]

Wouldn't it make sense to send them west to operate what's currently being operated by 319's?

Where would you then use the 319s? If on the other hand you are proposing that the effect of getting new stock is to move some around and then completely remove existing stock, then there is no capacity gain...

 

[Tetchytyke]

This was a merely a joke raised by me as the company asking for a rolling stock manager in Leeds had only worked with Northern Rail and Heathrow Express before - unless it's been suggested seriously elsewhere!

Heathrow Express have been giving the 333s the glad-eye in the past, as they're the only units compatible with the 332s. So if they're still in the market for more stock after Crossrail, it's perfectly possible that's what they'd want.

It's also why the rolling stock manager will only have used 332s and 333s

 

[anti-pacer]

Where would you then use the 319s? If on the other hand you are proposing that the effect of getting new stock is to move some around and then completely remove existing stock, then there is no capacity gain...

Well if "some" stock needs to be sent to another TOC, why not them? If however we'll still need them, fair enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I might prove unpopular, but if yours aren't broken send them to LM, as it seems we have the duds. Any 100mph EMUs that could be used to move towards all peak-time trains into and out of Euston being 12-car, and all other trains being 8-car, would be most welcome.

 

[lejog]

Having had time to poke around a little more, I found this quote in the press release:

more than 2,000 extra services each week, with around 400 additional Sunday services, including new direct journeys from Bradford to Wakefield, Sheffield, Nottingham, Liverpool and Hull; from Leeds to Chester and Bridlington; from Lincoln to Leeds; and from Manchester Airport to Warrington, Bradford and Halifax

A new Bradford to Hull service? I did expect some Calder Valley services to be extended through east of Leeds because of the lack of capacity for new terminators at Leeds, but expected these to be to East Leeds Parkway not Hull. I suspect this may be a bit premature since the last I heard was that services east of Leeds had still not been finalised, but Hull is totally unexpected.

Rearranging the above quote results in "There will be new services from Bradford to Wakefield, Sheffield, Nottingham, Liverpool, Hull, Chester (possibly off peak only) and Manchester Airport". A welcome improvement for Bradford.

I need to lie down.

Edit: Perhaps this is a mistake in the press release, I can't see there being both both a new Leeds to Bridlington service and a new Bradford to Hull service, unless of course if its a combined Bradford to Bridlington service.

 

[pdq]

Is there anything mentioned about Batley and other stations on this line? An improved Sunday offering would be good, along with better connections Eastbound from Huddersfield.

 

[northwichcat]

Heathrow Express have been giving the 333s the glad-eye in the past, as they're the only units compatible with the 332s. So if they're still in the market for more stock after Crossrail, it's perfectly possible that's what they'd want.

It's also why the rolling stock manager will only have used 332s and 333s

Heathrow Express do use 1 x class 360 and I think Heathrow Airport do own the Heathrow Connect 360s which will be freed up as a result of Crossrail so they will likely have 4 extra 360s unless they chose to lease them out or sell them.

Angel Trains own the 333s and an agreement is in place to lease them to Northern until at least mid-2020.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Is there anything mentioned about Batley and other stations on this line? An improved Sunday offering would be good, along with better connections Eastbound from Huddersfield.

Batley's services will be served by the TPE 'semi-fasts' instead of by Northern so you'll be getting refurbished 185s with wifi, plug sockets and on demand TV programs.

Based on the ITT TPE will operate a half-hourly service from Batley to both Manchester and Leeds (Mon-Sat) and 16 services per day in each direction on Sundays.

 

[bradders1983]

So Batley wont be getting any Northern services at all and they will just sail through the station?

 

[northwichcat]

So Batley wont be getting any Northern services at all and they will just sail through the station?

There will be no Northern services between Leeds and Huddersfield via Dewsbury or between Manchester and Huddersfield via Stalybridge from December 2017.

 

[bradders1983]

There will be no Northern services between Leeds and Huddersfield via Dewsbury or between Manchester and Huddersfield via Stalybridge from December 2017.

Seriously? So the smaller stations like Marsden, Slaithwaite, Greenfield et al are being served by TP "Express" trains? Oh dear. Surely there isnt going to be a service that stops at every single station en route?!

Or are the likes of Cottingley going to be served by Northern trains via Brighouse?

 

[anti-pacer]

There will be no Northern services between Leeds and Huddersfield via Dewsbury or between Manchester and Huddersfield via Stalybridge from December 2017.

So what about smaller stops like Cottingley, Ravensthorpe, Deighton, and those between Huddersfield and Stalybridge? Do they then become part of TPE's semi-fast services?

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So Batley wont be getting any Northern services at all and they will just sail through the station?

In addition to jcollins' post above, the only Northern operated service that will pass through Batley will be the Victoria via Brighouse service which will skip most stops between Leeds and Mirfield, though I don't think the stopping pattern has been finalised yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

So what about smaller stops like Cottingley, Ravensthorpe, Deighton, and those between Huddersfield and Stalybridge? Do they then become part of TPE's semi-fast services?

In short, yes. Deighton and Mirfield will get the Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield Kirkgate calls though, and Mirfield will get the Victoria via Brighouse. The Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford could also call at Deighton (it currently runs fast through) but probably only if there's demand which there probably isn't.

 

[bradders1983]

In addition to jcollins' post above, the only Northern operated service that will pass through Batley will be the Victoria via Brighouse service which will skip most stops between Leeds and Mirfield, though I don't think the stopping pattern has been finalised yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In short, yes. Deighton and Mirfield will get the Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield Kirkgate calls though, and Mirfield will get the Victoria via Brighouse. The Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford could also call at Deighton (it currently runs fast through) but probably only if there's demand which there probably isn't.

If Deighton is losing its direct Leeds service via Batley/Dewsbury, there may be the demand to stop that train there. The only other alternatives for passengers would be a change at Mirfield and then god knows how long a wait.

 

[northwichcat]

Seriously? So the smaller stations like Marsden, Slaithwaite, Greenfield et al are being served by TP "Express" trains? Oh dear. Surely there isnt going to be a service that stops at every single station en route?!

Or are the likes of Cottingley going to be served by Northern trains via Brighouse?

So what about smaller stops like Cottingley, Ravensthorpe, Deighton, and those between Huddersfield and Stalybridge? Do they then become part of TPE's semi-fast services?

I find it surprising that there's been so much talk of removing Northern stopping services in the Manchester and Huddersfield local media but people in the Leeds area seem completely unaware of any changes.

The TPE services via York will not call at Stalybridge and most won't call at Dewsbury, so they will be express services.

The ones not via York won't be that fast. TPE will not serve Cottingley, except on a couple of late services. Batley and Dewsbury will get a half-hourly TPE service, Morley, Ravensthorpe and Deighton will get an hourly TPE service. (That's assuming First decide to do a timetable which meets the minimum required service level.)

 

[61653 HTAFC]

If Deighton is losing its direct Leeds service via Batley/Dewsbury, there may be the demand to stop that train there. The only other alternatives for passengers would be a change at Mirfield and then god knows how long a wait.

I think Deighton will get a call on one of the two TPE semi-fasts, possibly both. When the plan for the route was being drafted there was an idea of Mirfield becoming almost the "Clapham Junction" of West Yorkshire, being served by Northern, TPE and GC. Now, anyone who's ever been there will know that the station needs some serious work before anything close to that is workable, what with there being no step-free access to the island platform (which is suffering from subsidence to boot!).

 

[R Trevithick]

Seriously? So the smaller stations like Marsden, Slaithwaite, Greenfield et al are being served by TP "Express" trains? Oh dear. Surely there isnt going to be a service that stops at every single station en route?!

Or are the likes of Cottingley going to be served by Northern trains via Brighouse?

Don't know if I'm right but I heard that the stops between Stalybridge and Hudd would be alternate services ie-

One stops at Mossley and Marsden and the next stops at Geenfield and Slaithwaite.

Users who currently go Greenfield to Mossley will have to go to Staly and await a service back

Or drive!!!!

 

[bradders1983]

I find it surprising that there's been so much talk of removing Northern stopping services in the Manchester and Huddersfield local media but people in the Leeds area seem completely unaware of any changes.

The TPE services via York will not call at Stalybridge and most won't call at Dewsbury, so they will be express services.

The ones not via York won't be that fast. TPE will not serve Cottingley, except on a couple of late services. Batley and Dewsbury will get a half-hourly TPE service, Morley, Ravensthorpe and Deighton will get an hourly TPE service. (That's assuming First decide to do a timetable which meets the minimum required service level.)

So one assumes Cottingley will be served by the Leeds-Man Vic via Brighouse service then? Is Cottingley-Huddersfield via Brighouse currently allowed in the Routeing guide or will a doubling-back into Leeds be allowed?

Don't know if I'm right but I heard that the stops between Stalybridge and Hudd would be alternate services ie-

One stops at Mossley and Marsden and the next stops at Geenfield and Slaithwaite.

Users who currently go Greenfield to Mossley will have to go to Staly and await a service back

Or drive!!!!

Thats just ridiculous.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

So one assumes Cottingley will be served by the Leeds-Man Vic via Brighouse service then? Is Cottingley-Huddersfield via Brighouse currently allowed in the Routeing guide or will a doubling-back into Leeds be allowed?



Thats just ridiculous.

I agree, it is rather ridiculous. Robbing Peter to pay Paul...

As far as Huddersfield to Cottingley is concerned, currently during the day that's a journey that can't be made without a change (it can in the other direction though). I'm not sure what the current arrangements are in terms of routing but I'd guess the same rules will apply in the future.

 

[northwichcat]

Don't know if I'm right but I heard that the stops between Stalybridge and Hudd would be alternate services ie-

One stops at Mossley and Marsden and the next stops at Geenfield and Slaithwaite.

I thought it was Greenfield and Marsden or Mossley and Slaithwaite

Users who currently go Greenfield to Mossley will have to go to Staly and await a service back

Which is why there's been a lot of consultation on what service patterns should be and why I'm surprised some people in Yorkshire are completely surprised that TPE will be serving the smaller stations.

I'm sure the results of the consultation from Marsden and Slaithwaite was the idea of an hourly direct service to Leeds is much better than a hourly link to the next village when there's already a much more frequent bus.

 

[lejog]

In addition to jcollins' post above, the only Northern operated service that will pass through Batley will be the Victoria via Brighouse service which will skip most stops between Leeds and Mirfield, though I don't think the stopping pattern has been finalised yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In short, yes. Deighton and Mirfield will get the Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield Kirkgate calls though, and Mirfield will get the Victoria via Brighouse. The Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford could also call at Deighton (it currently runs fast through) but probably only if there's demand which there probably isn't.

The Northern stopper from Victoria was specified in the ITT, IIRC it "sailed through" Batley and Ravensthorpe, but stopped at all other stations. Whether this will be the exact pattern I don't know, but would expect all 3 stoppers to be skip-stop with similar journey times from Mirfield to Leeds.

The Chester to Leeds service Northern Connect will also pass through Batley at certain times of the day, but hopefully that will be a fast service.

As I think it was you who posted recently on another thread, what capacity problems between Huddersfield and Leeds? With the recent animals on the line incident at Mytholmroyd, I was actually fortunate enough to be on a train where Northern cancelled stops through Halifax and Bradford and ran fast from Hebden Bridge to Leeds via Dewsbury, Problems arise if the stoppers are late as they are currently only a couple of minutes away from TPE services at the ends of the Mirfield-Leeds stretch, but I am told there is some spare capacity for fast services. Not least because there are four TPE fast services but only three stoppers, leaving a path between the last pair of fast services.

 

[Jonny]

Don't know if I'm right but I heard that the stops between Stalybridge and Hudd would be alternate services ie-

One stops at Mossley and Marsden and the next stops at Geenfield and Slaithwaite.

Users who currently go Greenfield to Mossley will have to go to Staly and await a service back

Or drive!!!!

I was wondering how that would affect the Ale Trail passengers?

 

[bradders1983]

I agree, it is rather ridiculous. Robbing Peter to pay Paul...

As far as Huddersfield to Cottingley is concerned, currently during the day that's a journey that can't be made without a change (it can in the other direction though). I'm not sure what the current arrangements are in terms of routing but I'd guess the same rules will apply in the future.

Why does the stopper skip out Cottingley one way but not the other? Odd.

 

[lejog]

Duplicate post deleted!

 

[anti-pacer]

In addition to jcollins' post above, the only Northern operated service that will pass through Batley will be the Victoria via Brighouse service which will skip most stops between Leeds and Mirfield, though I don't think the stopping pattern has been finalised yet.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


In short, yes. Deighton and Mirfield will get the Huddersfield to Castleford via Wakefield Kirkgate calls though, and Mirfield will get the Victoria via Brighouse. The Huddersfield to Leeds via Bradford could also call at Deighton (it currently runs fast through) but probably only if there's demand which there probably isn't.

I can't imagine Cottingley being served by a TPE semi-fast service.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Why does the stopper skip out Cottingley one way but not the other? Odd.

Pathing constraints. Towards Leeds the following TPE has almost caught the Huddersfield stopper up so that stop is skipped. Going the other way the services aren't flighted so close at that point (the following TPE overtakes at Mirfield).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I can't imagine Cottingley being served by a TPE semi-fast service.

At least it can fit a 185, unlike both Slaithwaite and Marsden! And Deighton too, in fact...

 

[bradders1983]

Pathing constraints. Towards Leeds the following TPE has almost caught the Huddersfield stopper up so that stop is skipped. Going the other way the services aren't flighted so close at that point (the following TPE overtakes at Mirfield).

Ah I see. Guessing Cottingley is served by a train from Brighouse instead?

 

[northwichcat]

I was wondering how that would affect the Ale Trail passengers?

Might get more people as the TPE service will offer better connections to long distance services.

It might also attract more walkers to Greenfield and Marsden.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

At least it can fit a 185, unlike both Slaithwaite and Marsden! And Deighton too, in fact...

There will be platform lengthening to allow longer trains to stop at smaller stations between Manchester and Leeds.

 

[bradders1983]

Maybe TPE will want to split the Greenfield/Mossley and Slaithwaite/Marsden pairings up to put off the Ale Trail passengers, ive seen some of the aggro the passengers can cause....