Northern franchise awarded to Arriva.

[trentside]

I don't think anyone is asking the important question here, which is what colour will the trains be?

:P

Orange and aquamarine with rainbow swirls...

On a serious note, my biggest bit of pleasure came from a small footnote on the Lincoln to Sheffield route that indicates that a Sunday service of 11 trains per day will operate, instead of just the current 4 in the afternoon/evening only. This has been a long time coming!

I await with anticipation announcements on DCO/DOO speculation on which were rife during the bidding process - no doubt this will go quiet now, as it would rather take this shine off the announcements and press releases from the successful bidders.

 

[Iskra]

So aside from the speculation of what goes where overall it looks very good to me.

New electric trains which wasn't really expected except maybe the regional trains to Blackpool.

Long overdue much better services between Sheffield - Lincoln, Middlesbrough Newcastle and Carlisle. Better service on the Calder Valley, Better services on the Lancaster - Skipton route, well except maybe the Cumbrian Coast ok it gets more services but it doesn't look like there will be a rush to get rid of those clapped out 37's great if your an enthusiast maybe not so good if your a regular passenger.

The Cumbrian Coast has finally got a decent Sunday service down the full-length of the line, which is a great improvement. I think the LHCS is quite popular on that line amongst the normals to be honest.

 

[bunnahabhain]

I think the S and C is well marketed, but marketing can only acheive so much.

As for a scenic service: A much more tangible improvement would be to have a semi-fast Leeds-Glasgow running over the line, even 1tp2h would see patronage boom. When units are available, obviously. Leave the scenic service to WCRC and their steam trains instead in my opinion.

I think we can be happy for now, we have a tangible service improvement.

I've always thought a Nottingham to Glasgow via Leeds, Carlisle and Dumfries would be a pretty useful route, I think one of the open access companies were looking at that for a while.

 

[geoffk]

I hope Arrive keep the livery as it is (and just remove the Serco/Abellio reference obviously) as money would be better spent in other areas.

 

[bradders1983]

I've always thought a Nottingham to Glasgow via Leeds, Carlisle and Dumfries would be a pretty useful route, I think one of the open access companies were looking at that for a while.

Via Dumfries? Ooft. Take that out and you may have a good suggestion.

 

[northwichcat]

I hope Arrive keep the livery as it is (and just remove the Serco/Abellio reference obviously) as money would be better spent in other areas.

From the Press Release it sounds like they'll be using refreshed Northern branding, as well as Northern Connect branding. I'm guessing a new logo with "Operated by Arriva a DB company" underneath.

 

[sprinterguy]

From the Press Release it sounds like they'll be using refreshed Northern branding, as well as Northern Connect branding. I'm guessing a new logo with "Operated by Arriva a DB company" underneath.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Arriva lose the purple, keep the blue, and apply an approximation of the "executive" livery currently being used by Arriva Trains Wales. All just conjectural wibble on my part on a very peripheral point, mind.

 

[northwichcat]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Arriva lose the purple, keep the blue, and apply an approximation of the "executive" livery currently being used by Arriva Trains Wales. All just conjectural wibble on my part on a very peripheral point, mind.

Northern originally planned to lose the FNW blue but then they decided it was better to have blue and purple trains than white and lilac trains as white shows dirt more quickly.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The words used in related to pacers, seems to suggest they will not be in the area ny longer, but it does not seem to say they will be removed from service, maybe they will be cascaded? :P

The Northern ITT ruled out using Pacers after 2019, the TPE ITT rules out taking on Pacers and the Scotrail franchise agreement rules out taking on Pacers. However, at present other franchises are allowed to use Pacers post-2019 if they are modified to meet the post-2019 standards.

Apparently the proposed manufacturers Arriva and First will be ordering new trains from can't be revealed until at least 10 days after the winning bid is announced in case one of the losing bidders appeals.

 

[sprinterguy]

Northern originally planned to lose the FNW blue but then they decided it was better to have blue and purple trains than white and lilac trains as white shows dirt more quickly.

Indeed, those experimental white-based liveries were short lived (Incidentally, did Northern originally plan on having separate identities for the North East and North West sides, too? Only I notice that the livery worn by (Heaton based) 156451 for the launch day was the exact opposite arrangement of white and lilac that was worn by the three Newton Heath units to receive it).

 

[thenorthern]

From name wise I have heard that Arriva will retain the name Northern Rail with an updated logo, however we could return to Arriva Trains Northern.

I am looking at the service through Grange-over-Sands and it seems the fears that the service would get worse have been unfounded.

I can't wait though for the massive fare rises to pay for the shiny new trains.

 

[northwichcat]

I can't wait though for the massive fare rises to pay for the shiny new trains.

DfT have said average regulated fare rises will be RPI for this parliament term (ending May 2020.) Although, of course not all fares are regulated.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I don't think anyone is asking the important question here, which is what colour will the trains be?

:P

My views on Funeral Purple as a livery are well known on this website. That horrible colour scheme so well reflected the "no growth/ accept everyone else's rolling stock cast-offs" situation that this franchise found itself saddled with.

 

[northwichcat]

Apparently Arriva will be using only in house RPIs.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Indeed, those experimental white-based liveries were short lived (Incidentally, did Northern originally plan on having separate identities for the North East and North West sides, too?

Trying to draw a comparison here, how do Southern manage to keep the units in their particular livery clean?

 

[A0]

I was making reference to FUTURE cascades...not harking back to the past as you appear to have done so,

It's only the 319s which are being reallocated north, so hardly a takeover of 'used stock from the South'.

The 321s were chosen by Scotrail - presumably for the benefit of fleet commonality rather than introducing another fleet with the training / maintenance overhead that attracts.

Of other stock being free'd up in the South / South East - the electrification of the GWML means the 165s / 166s will be cascaded further west.

The introduction of 700s on TL / GN means some of the 319s head north, though it looks like LM are going to be the "lucky" recipient of some more.

The 377s on TL will be heading to the GWML.

Anything which is coming to end of life in 3rd rail land will have a one way trip to the scrapyard because they can't be used anywhere else.

And the 315s freed up by Crossrail look like they'll be heading to the Welsh Valleys for a while and then presumably for scrap as well.

So the 'poor hard done by North' argument really doesn't hold water.

 

[Howardh]

My views on Funeral Purple as a livery are well known on this website. That horrible colour scheme so well reflected the "no growth/ accept everyone else's rolling stock cast-offs" situation that this franchise found itself saddled with.

Normally I like purple...but not on trains. Really made them look even older than they were a very surprising choice of colour.

 

[ANorthernGuard]

For my own obviously selfish reasons (NO Sarcasm Intended *cough) I want to know what their plans for DCO/DOO are.

 

[Tetchytyke]

From name wise I have heard that Arriva will retain the name Northern Rail with an updated logo

Interesting. I imagine that they may do just that in the short term, using a brand everyone hates until the Pacers are gone and the 158s are refurbished, when they'll wheel out a shiny new brand to make them look totes amazeballs just in time for the franchise renewal.

Cynical? Moi?

As for the improvements, it'll be interesting to see how many of the "Northern Connect" refurbished trains will be 185s, and whether the 333s will end up going south after years of getting the glad-eye from Heathrow Express.

 

[sprinterguy]

I've been trying to work out what these franchise commitments will mean for my particular corner of the north east (Durham Coast/Tyne Valley). Taking both of the following together:

Middlesbrough to Newcastle
The benefits are:
•there will be a half-hourly service between Middlesbrough, Stockton and Newcastle, providing 30 trains per day in each direction. The current service is generally hourly
•at least 10 services per day will be Northern Connect services, operated by fully-refurbished, air conditioned Class 158 trains
•today’s service levels will be preserved at intermediate stations, but with earlier first trains and later last trains along the route

Newcastle to Carlisle
The benefits are:
•half-hourly service between Newcastle and Carlisle, providing 28 trains per day in each direction – 13 more than now. Some services will be faster than today, at around 80 minutes
•a minimum of 10 services each way will operate as “Northern Connect” services, operated by fully refurbished trains
•that Carlisle will receive at least two arrivals from Newcastle before 09:00, providing more choice and capacity for those travelling to work in Carlisle. Currently only one service arrives before 09:00
•the MetroCentre will have 42 trains per day to and from Newcastle, 30 trains per day to and from Hexham, 28 trains per day to and from Carlisle, and at least 12 trains per day to and from each of Sunderland and Morpeth
•that MetroCentre and Hexham will become Northern Connect stations, open from 6am until 10pm with free Wi-Fi and refreshments available for purchase

That suggests to me:
HOURLY "Northern Connect" Middlesbrough - Newcastle, using the 90mph capability of refurbished 158s to run via Durham.
HOURLY "Northern Connect" Newcastle - Carlisle limited stop service using refurbished 158s, possibly linked up with the above Middlesbrough to Newcastle service.
HOURLY Middlesbrough - Carlisle stopper via Sunderland and Newcastle, maintaining the current frequency of service at intermediate stops on the Durham Coast and Tyne Valley lines.
HOURLY Morpeth - Metrocentre

With the latter two to use Heaton's existing allocation of 156s, refurbished to DDA compliant standard (this work has already commenced on some units, reportedly).

 

[northwichcat]

It's only the 319s which are being reallocated north, so hardly a takeover of 'used stock from the South'.

The information available at present doesn't confirm any future inward cascades - there may be more Thameslink 319s joining, their may be FGW Sprinters joining but we don't know for certain yet.

 

[sprinterguy]

As for the improvements, it'll be interesting to see how many of the "Northern Connect" refurbished trains will be 185s, and whether the 333s will end up going south after years of getting the glad-eye from Heathrow Express.

The 333s have to continue to be leased by the Northern franchise until at least 24 July 2020. Beyond that, I suppose it depends how soon Arriva intend to introduce these new 3-car EMUs into service.

 

[Tetchytyke]

With the latter two to use Heaton's existing allocation of 156s, refurbished to DDA compliant standard (this work has already commenced on some units, reportedly).

It has, and they look pretty good.

I'd agree with your suggestions, although I wonder if it'll actually be a Carlisle-Newcastle-Durham-Middlesbrough Northern Connect service. I also wonder if they'll be sending them down the Stillington line or whether they'll also serve Darlington.

As for Hexham and MetroCentre stations, they're both already "open" past 10pm, so I wonder whether they actually mean "staffed". The "refreshments" will probably just be a vending machine, mind.

The 333s have to continue to be leased by the Northern franchise until at least 24 July 2020. Beyond that, I suppose it depends how soon Arriva intend to introduce these new 3-car EMUs into service.

That would tie in with procurement schedules; you'd be struggling to get new EMUs ordered and built much before 2020 tbh.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Apparently Arriva will be using only in house RPIs.

Good news. If any of the existing ones are TUPEd in (I don't know if that applies to them or not) I hope they will be given the proper, full railway training in order that they can do the job properly rather than in the semi-incompetent manner it seems to be done at present.

 

[sprinterguy]

I'd agree with your suggestions, although I wonder if it'll actually be a Carlisle-Newcastle-Durham-Middlesbrough Northern Connect service. I also wonder if they'll be sending them down the Stillington line or whether they'll also serve Darlington.

Indeed - I've mentioned as such in my post, but can't be sure if they'll operate as one through service or not at this stage.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

It's only the 319s which are being reallocated north, so hardly a takeover of 'used stock from the South'.

So the 'poor hard done by North' argument really doesn't hold water.

In the famous words of Michelle in 'Allo 'Allo...."Listen, I shall say this only once".......

I have already gone to the trouble in an earlier posting to clarify the matter that it was FUTURE cascading that my posting made a reference to. So how on earth can you make mention of any "poor hard done by" North argument over something that has not yet occurred at this present moment in time....unless you are privy to future cascading plans not yet in the public domain.

 

[Bantamzen]

From a personal perspective, I'm pleased to see increased Sunday frequencies up the Aire & Wharfe valleys up from Bradford, 1tp2hr each way isn't particularly useful at the moment. And of course seeing a commitment to some 6 car trains in the peaks is great (presumably to and from Leeds)

However one slight thing concerns me, I presume that these will be formed by 2 x3 car units so does that mean that some other off peak services might be formed of single 3 car units or will they run around in a semi-permanent 6 car formation? And of course 2 x3 car units running together does leave a small risk of some peaks running at a reduction of 3 from 4 cars if a unit fails. Also depending on the length of the new units, will Arriva undertake any platform lengthening where required, or will the new order including options to isolate doors as required?

So many questions of the new Northern franchise!! But all in all, it's looking like a genuine improvement, and not just fiddling around the edges.

As for the TPE franchise, the only thing that irks me is the loss of the Leeds-Warrington Central service, which I use quite a lot. I know it will be replaced with a Leeds > Bradford > Manchester > Warrington BQ > Chester route, but this will likely take quite a bit longer, and doesn't look like being a hourly service or have I misread that bit?

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

As for the TPE franchise, the only thing that irks me is the loss of the Leeds-Warrington Central service, which I use quite a lot. I know it will be replaced with a Leeds > Bradford > Manchester > Warrington BQ > Chester route, but this will likely take quite a bit longer, and doesn't look like being a hourly service or have I misread that bit?

From the "improvements" map for Leeds-Chester:

The new Northern franchisee will introduce an hourly Northern Connect service between Chester and Manchester (via Warrington Bank Quay, Earlestown and Newton-le-Willows). This will operate alongside an existing Arriva Trains Wales, which currently operates 1 train per hour off-peak and 2 trains per hour in the peak.
This will be operated by brand new diesel trains, and will run through to Leeds via Manchester Victoria and the Calder Valley.

Sundays
The new Chester-Manchester service will also operate on Sundays. At least ten of these services will run through to Leeds.

I think this service has been misinterpreted as a Liverpool-Bradford service in some other text.
I hope it doesn't stop at all lamp-posts (like both Earlestown and Newton le Willows).

 

[absolutelymilk]

As for the TPE franchise, the only thing that irks me is the loss of the Leeds-Warrington Central service, which I use quite a lot. I know it will be replaced with a Leeds > Bradford > Manchester > Warrington BQ > Chester route, but this will likely take quite a bit longer, and doesn't look like being a hourly service or have I misread that bit?

Leeds > Bradford > Manchester > Warrington BQ > Chester will be an hourly service
http://maps.dft.gov.uk/northern/index.html
(click on Chester to Leeds)

 

[SuperOwl86]

Looking at the interactive map could the Nottingham to Leeds via Barnsley be replaced by the Lincoln to Leeds service?

 

[po8crg]

Given the speed of the curves through Earlestown, they might as well stop there. It won't exactly cost much time.



And Newton-le-Willows station is being expanded so I expect a lot to stop there. There's a huge consultation just gone in for new station buildings and a new car park.