Oldham byelection and impact on Jeremy Corbyn

[HMS Ark Royal]

Surely saying someone is a vile human being is an opinion and not fact.

 

[Dave1987]

The pure fact that The Labour Party and Labour party supporters are heaving a huge sigh of relief that they manage to hold a huge historic Labour stronghold is a testament to the turmoil the party is in. Both Corbyn and McDonnell are threatening major shadow cabinet reshuffles and de selections of moderate centre left MP's. How on earth can Labour present themselves as a credible opposition when all we hear about is descent in the ranks and the iron fist being pumped.

Since McDonnell became the shadow chancellor all I think I have heard him say is that Labour is now firmly anti austerity but no costed policies. And this is a leadership who claims they can and will win the next general election?? At this rate the Tories will probably get an even bigger majority.

 

[Spamcan81]

If UKIP had won, instead of being annihilated, you can bet your bottom dollar the rent-a-Tories at the BBC would be judging everything on the by-election.

Love it. A previous poster accuses the BBC of having a leftist agenda and now you accuse them of being "ret-a-Tories". Tells me they must be striking a fair balance.

 

[Smudger105e]

The pure fact that The Labour Party and Labour party supporters are heaving a huge sigh of relief that they manage to hold a huge historic Labour stronghold is a testament to the turmoil the party is in. Both Corbyn and McDonnell are threatening major shadow cabinet reshuffles and de selections of moderate centre left MP's. How on earth can Labour present themselves as a credible opposition when all we hear about is descent in the ranks and the iron fist being pumped.

Since McDonnell became the shadow chancellor all I think I have heard him say is that Labour is now firmly anti austerity but no costed policies. And this is a leadership who claims they can and will win the next general election?? At this rate the Tories will probably get an even bigger majority.

First I think you meant dissent not descent.

Secondly, where do you hear of all this dissent? Oh, is it possibly from the media? The same media that have been described as right wing in this very thread?

I am a member of the Labour Party. I don't see dissent or descent. What I see is a government who is scared of the opposition.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

de selections of moderate centre left MP's.

I would love someone to provide a definition of 'moderate'! In Labour party terms what does it mean? Someone who supports Cameron and Osborne's budgetry plans ? Someone who supports the bombing of Syria? Someone who isn't a Jeremy Corbyn supporter? (and of course the term is also used to describe Cameron's 70000 Syrians, many of whom are apparently Islamists and al-Qaeda supporters).
It just appears to me to be one of those vacuous terms that the media love and doesn't really mean anything!

 

[Dave1987]

First I think you meant dissent not descent.

Secondly, where do you hear of all this dissent? Oh, is it possibly from the media? The same media that have been described as right wing in this very thread?

I am a member of the Labour Party. I don't see dissent or descent. What I see is a government who is scared of the opposition.

The media are described as left wing biased by the right and right wing biased by the left so really that comment has no real substance to it. I've heard the Beeb be branded Left wing and Right wing biased in the same HYS comments forum. People who voted for Corbyn as Labour leader would say that the party was getting back on track, whereas Labour supporters who voted for Liz Kendall and Yvette Cooper would probably say the party is in turmoil. In the media, and the left wing media like The Guardian I might add, you hear that McDonnell and Corbyn want to purge to shadow cabinet of anyone who isn't towing the line, and that any Labour MP's who don't comply with Corbyn's ideas face de selection. Now considering that your leadership are supposed to be showing to the electorate that you are a credible opposition, you have a hell of a long way to go to get close to that.

 

[47802]

The pure fact that The Labour Party and Labour party supporters are heaving a huge sigh of relief that they manage to hold a huge historic Labour stronghold is a testament to the turmoil the party is in. Both Corbyn and McDonnell are threatening major shadow cabinet reshuffles and de selections of moderate centre left MP's. How on earth can Labour present themselves as a credible opposition when all we hear about is descent in the ranks and the iron fist being pumped.

Since McDonnell became the shadow chancellor all I think I have heard him say is that Labour is now firmly anti austerity but no costed policies. And this is a leadership who claims they can and will win the next general election?? At this rate the Tories will probably get an even bigger majority.

Personally I hope they do deselect moderate Labour MP's it will make it even less appealing to Tory Lite voters like myself and hopefully send itself into left wing oblivion.

Unfortunately I don't think that will happen Corbyn and his left wing cronies are playing a clever game.

 

[Smudger105e]

The media are described as left wing biased by the right and right wing biased by the left so really that comment has no real substance to it. I've heard the Beeb be branded Left wing and Right wing biased in the same HYS comments forum. People who voted for Corbyn as Labour leader would say that the party was getting back on track, whereas Labour supporters who voted for Liz Kendall and Yvette Cooper would probably say the party is in turmoil. In the media, and the left wing media like The Guardian I might add, you hear that McDonnell and Corbyn want to purge to shadow cabinet of anyone who isn't towing the line, and that any Labour MP's who don't comply with Corbyn's ideas face de selection. Now considering that your leadership are supposed to be showing to the electorate that you are a credible opposition, you have a hell of a long way to go to get close to that.

I voted for Yvette Cooper.

That does not mean I see the selection of Jeremy Corbyn as meaning the Labour Party is in turmoil.

 

[backontrack]

Surely saying someone is a vile human being is an opinion and not fact.

Oh, I'm not sure...

 

[Dave1987]

Personally I hope they do deselect moderate Labour MP's it will make it even less appealing to Tory Lite voters like myself and hopefully send itself into left wing oblivion.

Unfortunately I don't think that will happen Corbyn and his left wing cronies are playing a clever game.

Now I thought that Ed Millibands Labour did have some credibility and I was pleased about that. Showed that there was some choice and it came down to policies and in particular costs associated with those. I would never even think of voting Labour now with McDonnell as the Shadow Chancellor.

 

[Smudger105e]

So it's not about Corbyn then? Please make your mind up for the real reasons for your anti Labour stance.

The current government were far from clear about budgets. Cameron said there will be no changes to tax credits and then Osborne announced big cuts in them. They did have to U turn though, and some might say it was because of the Opposition's intervention.

 

[Dave1987]

So it's not about Corbyn then? Please make your mind up for the real reasons for your anti Labour stance.

The current government were far from clear about budgets. Cameron said there will be no changes to tax credits and then Osborne announced big cuts in them. They did have to U turn though, and some might say it was because of the Opposition's intervention.

Er didn't Corbyn appoint McDonnell as shadow chancellor? So yes it is about Corbyn. I admire that he sticks to his principles but can't agree with his politics. Some might say that he was saved from making those cuts by the fact the economy is growing again. Millibands Labour were a credible opposition, Corbyns Labour are definitely not at the moment.

 

[Smudger105e]

Millibands Labour were a credible opposition, Corbyns Labour are definitely not at the moment.

In your opinion. An opinion with which I happen to disagree.

 

[Busaholic]

Neil Kinnock once said of Ken Livingstone that the people who loved him had never met him, and I suspect much the same could be said of Nigel Farage. Douglas Carswell, a principled man, must be ruing the day he ever agreed to switch to UKIP. Farage will always alienate half the electorate and, interestingly, most P.R. systems of voting would probably not get them anywhere much, as they'll get few 2nd or 3rd preference votes. Farage is a product of Dulwich College, as was Mark Clarke, the Tory 'fixer' who was chucked out of the party to try to stop the full story coming out. DC breeds reckless arrogance just as surely as Eton College and Westminster School.

 

[ExRes]

Dulwich College sure does breed reckless arrogance, I guess that's why Labour MP Chris Moles lost Ipswich in 2010

 

[Dave1987]

In your opinion. An opinion with which I happen to disagree.

That's the beauty of democracy! Just a shame some people resort to threats and violence when other people's opinions don't match up with their own.

 

[Smudger105e]

Indeed. Just because we are not of similar political persuasions, does not mean either of us is right or wrong, just different

 

[miami]

That's the beauty of democracy! Just a shame some people resort to threats and violence when other people's opinions don't match up with their own.

The attitude of many of the loudest scum on the left rivals that of the loudest scum on the right with their "kill all refugees" calls.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Whilst being appreciative of well written poetry, I should be most surprised to read one that started...

"O to be a Yazidi, now that ISIL's here".....

Apologies to Robert Browning.

 

[backontrack]

The attitude of many of the loudest scum on the left rivals that of the loudest scum on the right with their "kill all refugees" calls.

Now nobody mentioned left or right, so you're just jumping to the Tory defence here. Who said this was about division?

 

[PHILIPE]

Danger is that the Labour Party could be taken over by the "Militant Tendency" with Jeremy Corbyn doing nothing about it. People seem to forget that their presence kept the Labour Party out of office for 18 years and gave us Margaret Thatcher.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Danger is that the Labour Party could be taken over by the "Militant Tendency" with Jeremy Corbyn doing nothing about it. People seem to forget that their presence kept the Labour Party out of office for 18 years and gave us Margaret Thatcher.

Anyone seen Derek Hatton recently?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Danger is that the Labour Party could be taken over by the "Militant Tendency" with Jeremy Corbyn doing nothing about it. People seem to forget that their presence kept the Labour Party out of office for 18 years and gave us Margaret Thatcher.

Do you think that the 'Militant Tendency' have been sleeping for thirty years and are waiting to be re-activated? Nonsense really, everyone I know in the party (and outside it) who are supporters of Jeremy Corbyn have nothing to do with MT, in fact I haven't heard them mentioned for many years. I suppose it's something that the media dream up, bit like the bogeyman!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Do you think that the 'Militant Tendency' have been sleeping for thirty years and are waiting to be re-activated? Nonsense really, everyone I know in the party (and outside it) who are supporters of Jeremy Corbyn have nothing to do with MT, in fact I haven't heard them mentioned for many years. I suppose it's something that the media dream up, bit like the bogeyman!

It was rather more than something the media dreamt up back in those dark days when Derek Hatton et al sat stone faced at a Labour Party conference, being harangued by Neil Kinnock.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

It was rather more than something the media dreamt up back in those dark days when Derek Hatton et al sat stone faced at a Labour Party conference, being harangued by Neil Kinnock.

I realise that, I meant it's something the media would drag up now!

 

[Tetchytyke]

Now I thought that Ed Millibands Labour did have some credibility and I was pleased about that.

That's not what you were saying in May:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2162866&postcount=1935

Of course their flagship currant affairs programme being led by the ex dep editor of the Guardian always gets missed by some, along with other high profile people who have a left leaning ilk.

I'd say their flagship current affairs programme was the Today programme, presented by the Britain First sympathiser Nick Robinson.

I'm assuming you're referring to Ian Katz (married to the founder of Mumsnet) at Newsnight though. Whose boss, the head of news, is a former editor of The Times who lied to the High Court about phone hacking when the policeman behind the Nightjack blog was outed.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I suppose [Militant] is something that the media dream up, bit like the bogeyman!

Well quite.

People are being vociferous in their criticism of certain politicians within the Labour Party. They're not used it- plebs, communicating with their MP, it's a disgrace- and so they whinge and moan and bleat about it.

Most of the so-called "trolling" or "bullying" has been nothing more than robust debate.

I suppose it just sums up certain quarters in Westminster that they have to make everything about them and their ego. They could teach Mariah Carey a thing or two about being a diva.

I agree with Marina Hyde: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/dec/04/vote-bombs-trolls-hilary-benn-neil-coyle

As for the stuff about Corbyn and "Militant coming back", I'd really say it goes to show that the people going on about it see Corbyn as a genuine threat. That's a good thing.

 

[Dave1987]

That's not what you were saying in May:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=2162866&postcount=1935

First of all I said some credibility, and secondly Milliband/Balls had far far more credibility than Corbyn/McDonnell do. Shall we wait until a seat that isn't a Labour stronghold comes up for by-election to see how much the electorate rate the Labour party with them at the helm?

 

[Smudger105e]

Shall we wait until a seat that isn't a Labour stronghold comes up for by-election to see how much the electorate rate the Labour party with them at the helm?

And a percentage swing to Labour at the next election will prove that the electorate want a Labour Party the is more to the Left? Or will we continue to get arguments that seem to me to be getting rather worn and increasingly desperate?

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

And a percentage swing to Labour at the next election will prove that the electorate want a Labour Party the is more to the Left? Or will we continue to get arguments that seem to me to be getting rather worn and increasingly desperate?

The Labour Party, being at a low ebb in the last General Election, will need a large percentage swing to not only gain lost ground (I am including Scotland in what I have just said) but to establish a better voting base.

 

[Smudger105e]

The Labour Party, being at a low ebb in the last General Election, will need a large percentage swing to not only gain lost ground (I am including Scotland in what I have just said) but to establish a better voting base.

This is a quote from the Independent.

A good night for Labour, then. With a nod to Peter Snow, the BBC’s doyen of electoral swing, *theTelegraph*had “a bit of fun” and extrapolated that Mr Corbyn would be on course for general election success – just eight seats short of an overall majority – if Labour’s Oldham West and Royton performance were repeated across the country.