Domestic coach services within the Netherlands

[radamfi]

Flixbus/Meinfernbus now operate a network of domestic coach services within the Netherlands. Until now, only international services and services to airports were allowed.

Routes include:

Rotterdam - 's-Hertogenbosch (Den Bosch)
Rotterdam - Nijmegen
Groningen - Haren - Hengelo - Enschede
Enschede - Hengelo - Eindhoven
Groningen - Haren - Apeldoorn - Eindhoven

I didn't even realise liberalisation was on the cards for the Netherlands. I didn't think a coach network would be viable given the low train fares. Fares start from 1 euro.

Their French network is now quite comprehensive and they now run a service from Dunkerque to Paris via Calais, which stops at the ferry terminal.

 

[AlexNL]

The Dutch network has not been liberalised as has been the case in France or Germany, but the various provinces have granted Flixbus an exception to the monopoly of the concessionaire in their area.

A Flixbus bus between Breda and Tilburg will not be allowed (because there are already Arriva-operated buses for which Brabant pays), but they're fine with Eindhoven - Groningen.

 

[radamfi]

The Dutch network has not been liberalised as has been the case in France or Germany, but the various provinces have granted Flixbus an exception to the monopoly of the concessionaire in their area.

A Flixbus bus between Breda and Tilburg will not be allowed (because there are already Arriva-operated buses for which Brabant pays), but they're fine with Eindhoven - Groningen.

Are you saying that it is only up to the provinces, and the provinces will only object if a new coach service competes with services that the provinces are paying for? That would imply that the provinces won't care if a new coach service only competes with NS trains and doesn't compete with local buses/trams/metros and non-NS trains.

 

[Quakkerillo]

Are you saying that it is only up to the provinces, and the provinces will only object if a new coach service competes with services that the provinces are paying for? That would imply that the provinces won't care if a new coach service only competes with NS trains and doesn't compete with local buses/trams/metros and NS trains.

Regulation is that it may not compete with direct trains. No mention of other modes of transport.

 

[Groningen]

As "trainman" i hope that these busses are hit with a lot of trafficjams.

 

[HowardGWR]

As "trainman" I hope that these buses are hit with a lot of traffic jams.

True and they almost certainly will be so hit, unless they just offer off peak services. They should help keep fares low on NS routes though.

 

[notadriver]

I don't think coaches should be working against trains. They should complement each other. Would I be right in saying that injuries and fatalities for coaches usually occur on motorways ?

 

[AlexNL]

The domestic Flixbus network is not competing directly against trains, the routes that Flixbus chose are not currently served by direct trains. At least 1 change is required on NS, so that makes the bus more attractive. Even if the bus would suffer regularly from traffic jams, I am sure some people would remain on the bus because of the direct connection.

 

[radamfi]

I don't think coaches should be working against trains.

There are quite a few coach routes in the Netherlands which run in areas where there is no train service, especially in the north of the country. In the 90s, there was a nationwide brand created called "Interliner" which was specifically designed as a coach network that would complement and connect to the railway network. The railway-style fare structure was adopted allowing railcard holders 40% off, instead of the then usual national zonal system for buses. Many of the coaches had 2+1 seating and the bus stops had clocks and telephones.

The Interliner brand disintegrated after privatisation and tendering broke up the bus network into regional franchises, however many of the routes still exist. There are still a lot of "Qliners" and there is the "Brabantliner" between Utrecht and Breda.

My favourite route has always been the route across the Afsluitdijk from Alkmaar to Leeuwarden, with excellent connections at Den Oever with buses from Hoorn and Den Helder. The four buses meet at the same time each hour.

 

[dutchflyer]

There IS a difference though:
the old I-L was kind of additional to the train-network, linking towns without rail and routes without direct trains, of which this is the best known and long lasting example. The longest was Lelystad-Emmeloord-Heerenveen-Groningen, now broken in E-o as it would give the newly opened rail too much competition.
These routes also cannot really be compared to the Brit N-E/Mega network.
The now newly set up routes are kind of National Express/Fernbus.
Railfares as such are not low at all anymore in NL, but its more that any frequent trainuser will have some kind of railcard. Students go for free, so the main market for such weekendlinks has been sapped. (I myself, senior now, pay 20 eur/month for unlim. weekenduse and half fare offpeak weekdays). The 1 eur fares are also gone-kind of RYAN imitation introductions. In all it remains to be seen which routes will in the long run attract enough people to remain viable.
The secretary of state resp. for publ.transp. in her new days and in a mood against NS has decided that some competition might give hopefully NS a kind of kick in the ass and thus allowed it.

 

[radamfi]

There IS a difference though:
the old I-L was kind of additional to the train-network, linking towns without rail and routes without direct trains, of which this is the best known and long lasting example. The longest was Lelystad-Emmeloord-Heerenveen-Groningen, now broken in E-o as it would give the newly opened rail too much competition.
These routes also cannot really be compared to the Brit N-E/Mega network.
The now newly set up routes are kind of National Express/Fernbus.
Railfares as such are not low at all anymore in NL, but its more that any frequent trainuser will have some kind of railcard. Students go for free, so the main market for such weekendlinks has been sapped. (I myself, senior now, pay 20 eur/month for unlim. weekenduse and half fare offpeak weekdays). The 1 eur fares are also gone-kind of RYAN imitation introductions. In all it remains to be seen which routes will in the long run attract enough people to remain viable.
The secretary of state resp. for publ.transp. in her new days and in a mood against NS has decided that some competition might give hopefully NS a kind of kick in the ass and thus allowed it.

Yes, there is a difference, and that is what I was really saying in the last point. The Qliners are designed to complement the rail network, rather than compete with them. Clearly Flixbus, by contrast, are hell bent on competing as much as possible.

Here is a comparison between current fares and fares in my 98/99 Spoorboekje (24 May 98 - 29 May 99) on page 833.

2nd class singles (full fare) for selected distances:

0-8 km
1998: NLG 3.00 = EUR 1.36
2015: EUR 2.20
Increase of 62%

50 km
1998: NLG 14.75 = EUR 6.69
2015: EUR 9.10
Increase of 36%

100 km
1998: NLG 26.00 = EUR 11.80
2015: EUR 16.60
Increase of 41%

150 km
1998: NLG 34.75 = EUR 15.77
2015: EUR 21.30
Increase of 35%

200 km
1998: NLG 43.50 = EUR 19.74
2015: EUR 24.60
Increase of 25%

250 km
1998: NLG 54.50 = EUR 24.73
2015: EUR 25.70
Increase of 4%

Long distance singles have clearly gone up the least (a big reduction in real terms) because both the single and day return were capped at the dagkaart price (NLG 71.50 = EUR 32.45), whereas now the maximum fare applies at 242 km.

Inflation since 1998 is about 37%. So I don't think we can say that fares are "no longer low". The only fare that has gone up a lot is the very short distance fare.

Obviously the fares above can be reduced by 20% or 40% if you have the relevant railcard. With fares that low, I can't see much scope for Flixbus to compete on the routes like Amsterdam to Rotterdam unless they are charging 10 euros or less.

 

[radamfi]

According to

http://www.treinreiziger.nl/actueel/binnenland/eerste_lijn_flixbus_alweer_gestopt-147482

the route between Rotterdam and Den Bosch ('s-Hertogenbosch) has been withdrawn due to low passenger numbers despite the route only being in operation for three months.

However, they are planning new routes from Alkmaar to Venlo and Zandvoort to Roermond, both via Amsterdam and Eindhoven. That would be the first time Flixbus competes with direct NS trains. However they need to wait for approval from the relevant provinces.

http://www.ovmagazine.nl/2016/02/flixbus-vraagt-ontheffing-voor-nieuwe-lijnen-0939/

 

[radamfi]

Flixbus are now allowed to carry domestic passengers between Amsterdam and Groningen on route 075 (which continues to Hamburg)

 

[radamfi]

Somehow I failed to notice that Flixbus now run domestically between Rotterdam, Den Haag and Amsterdam. It started in June when the Rotterdam to Nijmegen route was extended to Amsterdam via Den Haag. Last week the routes were changed so that one route goes between Amsterdam and Rotterdam via Den Haag and another route goes from Den Haag to Rotterdam to Nijmegen then into Germany. The short trip between Rotterdam and Den Haag isn't bookable.