Forum feature suggestion for 'jargon'

[SpacePhoenix]

Are there any plugins that could be installed on the forums that could if it detects an acronym or bit of jargon, generate a tooltip with what it stands for/means?

 

[mirodo]

AFAIK, no.

 

[SS4]

I have wondered for a while what devices support/generates them. When I'm on a PC browsing the site I have occasionally seen references to them - completely meaningless, of course!

Mobile devices seem to support them best, the stock Android keyboard has a lot of them

Is there any plugins that could be installed on the forums that could if it detects an acronym or bit of jargon, generates a tooltip with what it stands for/means?

AFAIK, no.

Other forums have managed it, the word in question has a dotted underline to stand out but it's really a question for the admins.

 

[Mike395]

I'll suggest to the team that we might have a look into a possible way of doing something like this as part of a future forum upgrade - but personally not a fan of tooltips/'underlines' (plus varying issues viewing these on mobile/tablet devices) - they come across quite spammy!

(Also, I've split this trail out of the Emoji announcement thread to try and get wider member views on this, and because it's not a directly related suggestion).

 

[TheEdge]

Airliners.net has a fairly low key tooltip system that picks up IATA airport codes that works nicely.

 

[DaleCooper]

Just what we need another technological crutch to counter human failings until the internet collapses under the weight of tools and add-ons. Why can't the forum just insist on adherence to the rules?

 

[trainophile]

Just what we need another technological crutch to counter human failings until the internet collapses under the weight of tools and add-ons. Why can't the forum just insist on adherence to the rules?

There's nothing in the rules about not using rail related acronyms is there? (Only for stations, and then it's alright if you give the full name once.)

I for one would appreciate a pop-up of the full word or phrase when people in the business use their in-house jargon.

 

[Tim R-T-C]

Just what we need another technological crutch to counter human failings until the internet collapses under the weight of tools and add-ons. Why can't the forum just insist on adherence to the rules?

Thing is, there are a lot of rail acronyms and 'jargon' that are understood by the vast majority of railfans and that most people wouldn't think twice about using, but would be incomprehensible to newcomers.

Just off the top of my head - Deltic, clag, ORCATS, BR, DBS, EWS etc.

A pop-up might help here, even if it only worked on PCs.

 

[Crossover]

I'll suggest to the team that we might have a look into a possible way of doing something like this as part of a future forum upgrade - but personally not a fan of tooltips/'underlines' (plus varying issues viewing these on mobile/tablet devices) - they come across quite spammy!

(Also, I've split this trail out of the Emoji announcement thread to try and get wider member views on this, and because it's not a directly related suggestion).

I'd broadly agree with you there, though when I have usually come across them, they have been trying to sell stuff

The other issue is that different acronyms have different meanings in different contexts

 

[DaleCooper]

I suppose a simple glossary would be too lo-tech.

 

[Clip]

I suppose a simple glossary would be too lo-tech.

Not really and would help somewhere on the forum however you don't want to go look at the glossary everytime something new pops up when you can just hover or click on the thing and up pops a description. Save so much time and effort.

 

[DaleCooper]

Not really and would help somewhere on the forum however you don't want to go look at the glossary everytime something new pops up when you can just hover or click on the thing and up pops a description. Save so much time and effort.

"Save so much time and effort" oh you poor thing, too tired to operate the mouse are you?

I had a feeling laziness came into it somewhere. In fact looking something up when you are not familiar with is a very good way of learning about many things, I often go to Google or Wikipedia for information when something new comes up and end up following all sorts of links to things I would never have known about otherwise.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I suppose a simple glossary would be too lo-tech.

I'd agree with this; a "decoder" page somewhere is all that is needed. Keep it simple. The more HTML we add to each page ( which hover-overs, underlines and so on would involve ), the more there is to go wrong. We've had enough problems on this forum with adverts and code causing things to behave weirdly or even trip out completely this year haven't we?

 

[Clip]

"Save so much time and effort" oh you poor thing, too tired to operate the mouse are you?

I had a feeling laziness came into it somewhere. In fact looking something up when you are not familiar with is a very good way of learning about many things, I often go to Google or Wikipedia for information when something new comes up and end up following all sorts of links to things I would never have known about otherwise.

Got nothing to do with laziness its called 'ease of use' familiarise yourself with such a thing and youll go far in your old age.

And for me it makes no difference, however using the forum on a mobile device is difficult enough even with tapatalk and as such by the time you go to another page the discussion may have moved on a few posts to make your point.

And also it would be handy for those who are either new to the forum or railway and those who have difficulty in using PCs or also those who have disabilities who do use this forum and use screen readers.

So you see my narrow minded forum friend, theres a world of reasons as to why a pop up would be handy for people as well as a glossary(which I also said would be good if you bothered to take notice before you got on your ill informed high horse) but only if you open your mind to it. Try it.

 

[trainophile]

Quite agree Clip. I'm more often than not on my phone, and navigating away to another page makes following the thread more fiddly than it needs to be. I probably wouldn't even bother, and would remain in ignorance!

 

[Bletchleyite]

No issue with the idea (though I hope the forum never has to resort to doing ads in that way).

 

[Iskra]

Couldn't someone just create a wiki, like many sites have.

 

[ainsworth74]

No issue with the idea (though I hope the forum never has to resort to doing ads in that way).

We would shut our doors before doing something as intrusive as that!

 

[IanXC]

There's nothing in the rules about not using rail related acronyms is there? (Only for stations, and then it's alright if you give the full name once.)

I for one would appreciate a pop-up of the full word or phrase when people in the business use their in-house jargon.

The relevent rule in full states:

Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

 

[DaleCooper]

The relevent rule in full states:

Please remember many members do not understand rail “jargon” (including acronyms, station codes and specialist terms). Such terms should be correctly defined the first time they are used; codes and abbreviations must not be made up.

There we are then, as I said before such add-ons are unnecessary if the rules are followed.

 

[Clip]

there we are then, as i said before such add-ons are unnecessary if the rules are followed.

tl;dr

 

[TheNewNo2]

I have a jargon file at work, which is just for acronyms, and that's up to around 5000 entries. Plus anything which was done would be problematic - I remember back in the MSN messenger days when you had custom emoticons, people would set them up but not be clever about it, so you'd get emoticons replacing the middle of words...

 

[DaleCooper]

tl;dr

I suppose 17 words is a bit of a marathon for someone whose command of English extends only to acronyms, ever considered education? Of couse it doesn't matter what I write as it will be too long for some and therefore remain unread.

 

[IanD]

There we are then, as I said before such add-ons are unnecessary if the rules are followed.

There are some people who will never follow the rules and some who will never be pulled up on it. My preference would be for those people to be given "infractions" and after enough be put on moderation and eventually banned but that won't happen either.

 

[crehld]

Part of this forum's appeal is its openness and welcoming attitude to new members, many of which aren't industry experts or hardened enthusiasts. Chances are there are many who won't understand the jargon or acronyms, so having a policy in place which aims to make these things clear and therefore encourages the participation of those who wouldn't otherwise know what was being discussed should be welcomed.

Acronyms only mean something to the person using them, and different people use them in different ways. For example 'NR' seems to be used to mean Network Rail and Northern Rail simultaneously. I also recall someone saying a couple of weeks ago they just used their own station codes rather than the official three letter ones, (which seems to defeat the whole point). So perhaps it's just easier to say what you mean?

Anyway as far as obscure and 'jargony' thread titles go how about this one:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2383643

Off Peak SY-WY ticket and WY BOJ during peak

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There are some people who will never follow the rules and some who will never be pulled up on it. My preference would be for those people to be given "infractions" and after enough be put on moderation and eventually banned but that won't happen either.

Seems a bit harsh. I'm sure a couple of friendly reminders by the mods to those concerned would sort the problem out?

 

[trainophile]

When visiting the site without logging in, as I've had to due to the ongoing tech problem on phones experienced by some of us, it positively encourages you to register, even saying that registered members don't see the banner ads!

It's nice that people who know nothing about the railways, other than they travel in trains, are accepted and welcomed into the community by the majority of posters. Long may it continue .

 

[ainsworth74]

When visiting the site without logging in, as I've had to due to the ongoing tech problem on phones experienced by some of us, it positively encourages you to register, even saying that registered members don't see the banner ads!.

That means the ads that are within threads (usually between the first post and then the first reply) not the banner ads at the top and bottom of the forum.

Anyway as far as obscure and 'jargony' thread titles go how about this one:

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2383643

I have amended that thread title. We try our best but we can't read everything. So if anyone does see thread titles like that or sees posts which are full of jargon that either they don't know or think others might not know then please feel free to report (

) those posts/threads and we'll happily amend them

 

[krus_aragon]

In terms of the jargon typically used on this site, I think of it as being in two main groups:

* Station Three Letter Codes
* Everything else

Station codes cause the most aggravation and discussion, from what I've seen. Automated insertion of hover-links for every occurrence of a TLC, similar to the IATA example above, is technically feasible. (I believe the forum admin did something equivalent with the text gWr recently.) The trouble is that Station TLCs are not exclusive. How would this automated process know whether a post is discussing the Brighton Mainline or Bramhall (BML)? Is SVR Silverdale station, a specific type of Off Peak Return ticket, or the Severn Valley Railway? Context is everything, sadly. I can't see automated hover-links helping the situation much.

I feel that the forum's current policy on jargon is quite clearly applied and enforced on TLCs, and there is an expectation that posters make use of the full name on the first occasion. I do, however, feel that there is scope for a jargon list of other railway terms. It's easy to apply a "write in full first" rule to a TLC, as it's easy to define what is a TLC, but which other terms need explaining is a matter of opinion that will vary with the knowledge, employment and experience of each individual poster. Having a separate list for confused readers to consult seems like the most practical approach to me. Ranging from enthusiast nicknames to official railway terminology, it has the potential to be quite a large undertaking. This page could be a useful start.

I don't think a wiki-style approach is the best solution, as each definition is unlikely to need more than a sentence or paragraph, with some hyperlinks to e.g. Wikipedia if you want to know more about who GNER were. A forum of locked posts, similar to the current Ticketing Guide, may be a good format to use.

Some months ago, I had been playing with the idea of starting such a jargon list for this forum, but never took it past the initial idea stage. I wouldn't be able to write the entire list myself (as there are plenty of terms that I wouldn't think of or don't even know), but I'd happily volunteer to help assemble or maintain it.

 

[DaleCooper]

In terms of the jargon typically used on this site, I think of it as being in two main groups:

* Station Three Letter Codes
* Everything else

Station codes cause the most aggravation and discussion, from what I've seen. Automated insertion of hover-links for every occurrence of a TLC, similar to the IATA example above, is technically feasible. (I believe the forum admin did something equivalent with the text gWr recently.) The trouble is that Station TLCs are not exclusive. How would this automated process know whether a post is discussing the Brighton Mainline or Bramhall (BML)? Is SVR Silverdale station, a specific type of Off Peak Return ticket, or the Severn Valley Railway? Context is everything, sadly. I can't see automated hover-links helping the situation much.

I feel that the forum's current policy on jargon is quite clearly applied and enforced on TLCs, and there is an expectation that posters make use of the full name on the first occasion. I do, however, feel that there is scope for a jargon list of other railway terms. It's easy to apply a "write in full first" rule to a TLC, as it's easy to define what is a TLC, but which other terms need explaining is a matter of opinion that will vary with the knowledge, employment and experience of each individual poster. Having a separate list for confused readers to consult seems like the most practical approach to me. Ranging from enthusiast nicknames to official railway terminology, it has the potential to be quite a large undertaking. This page could be a useful start.

I don't think a wiki-style approach is the best solution, as each definition is unlikely to need more than a sentence or paragraph, with some hyperlinks to e.g. Wikipedia if you want to know more about who GNER were. A forum of locked posts, similar to the current Ticketing Guide, may be a good format to use.

Some months ago, I had been playing with the idea of starting such a jargon list for this forum, but never took it past the initial idea stage. I wouldn't be able to write the entire list myself (as there are plenty of terms that I wouldn't think of or don't even know), but I'd happily volunteer to help assemble or maintain it.

That is a fine example of clear thinking and sensible suggestions.

 

[IanD]

In terms of the jargon typically used on this site, I think of it as being in two main groups:

* Station Three Letter Codes
* Everything else

The one that bugs me the most is head codes - you can at least have a guess at station codes and other acronyms/abbreviations given the context but something like "I'm on 9S80 waiting at Wigan with no progress anticipated for a bit." means naff all to most people.