London Midland franchise extended until October 2017

[trainophile]

Seeing these depart New Street throughout the evening peak, they seem to be the least overcrowded of all 170 worked LM routes out of New Street. The Shrewsburys and Rugeleys suffer much worse. The 5 car Herefords in the evening peak seem to be the only trains that can leave BHM with everybody being able to get a seat!

How come I always get a 2-car then? It's all very well saving the 4/5 car sets for the evening peak, but daytime travel can sometimes be rammed. On Tuesday this week we went on the 0849 HFD-BHM (lucky enough to board at the start, so we did get seats), but by Malvern it was full, and by Worcester people were crammed in the aisles and vestibules. Everyone was saying it isn't good enough.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Very childish :roll: ...I'd say anything which adds capacity IS a welcome addition to the LM fleet!

I would agree. Better a seat on a 319 than no seat on a 350.

 

[The Ham]

Which relates to some extra 319s and the DMUs being cascaded to other services. I started a thread on that earlier: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123882 but didn't feel the need to mention the claim of 10 million extra seats a year.

Although it may not amount to much extra stock (some extra 319's) it does prove the point that I keep making about with only a few extra units it is possible to improve many services.

As without the 319's there would be no DMU's to be cascaded elsewhere, which results in at least two different services seeing an improvement (assuming all the DMU's go to improve things on one service). Although there is the possibility that more than two services could see an improvement.

 

[swt_passenger]

Aren't the next 'additional 319s' simply to bring the total up to 7, i.e. to fully replace the 321s on a one for one basis?

Or is there now reliable confirmation of even more 319s?

 

[Class 170101]

I see no mention of the Northern 323s moving to LM. Maybe by reshuffling the pack some 350s become available for the Trent Valley services.

Additionally how about the 20 387s that Bombardier are going to build for Porterbrook how about these moving to TPE with their 350s joining LM?

However all in all its another two years of stagnation. Very disappointing overall.

 

[CromptonLad]

Am I to take then that LM extending its franchise is not the best of news?

 

[WatcherZero]

It's only for 18 months. An extension to the extension really! Perhaps a more robust single franchise in 2017 for the WCML sarf will be up for grabs. Will Virgin get in?

Well talk is of two franchises being specified out of present London Midland, a highly concentrated Birmingham commuter service under the control of West Midlands Combined Authority and the long distance/London commuter WCML services.

 

[northwichcat]

Am I to take then that LM extending its franchise is not the best of news?

After the mess DfT made of the West Coast re-letting they put back all start dates for new franchises* and planned to give Direct Awards to the current franchise holder, unless terms can't be agreed. So unless Govia refused to run a Direct Award (as Stagecoach have done with SWT) the extension is what was expected.

* With the exception of East Coast for political reasons.

 

[thenorthern]

I think I read somewhere that London Midland were looking at making Longport a regular stop although I don't know how true that is.

The extra Trent Valley services will be useful although between Rugby and Stafford I personally would like it to become half hourly.

 

[birchesgreen]

How come I always get a 2-car then? It's all very well saving the 4/5 car sets for the evening peak, but daytime travel can sometimes be rammed. On Tuesday this week we went on the 0849 HFD-BHM (lucky enough to board at the start, so we did get seats), but by Malvern it was full, and by Worcester people were crammed in the aisles and vestibules. Everyone was saying it isn't good enough.

Yes i used to go Brum to Worcester every day on the Hereford service, totally rammed. 2 cars simply isn't enough.

 

[strawbrick]

"More than 400 extra car parking spaces across three stations – Watford, Hemel Hempstead and Tamworth"

Anyone got any idea as to where I can find more details of the 400 extra spaces, especially with respect to Hemel Hempstead?

Come to that, are there any actual specific details of anything to do with this extensio, e.g. the re-casting of the time-table for the St Albans Abbey branch?

 

[jimm]

"More than 400 extra car parking spaces across three stations – Watford, Hemel Hempstead and Tamworth"

Anyone got any idea as to where I can find more details of the 400 extra spaces, especially with respect to Hemel Hempstead?

Come to that, are there any actual specific details of anything to do with this extensio, e.g. the re-casting of the time-table for the St Albans Abbey branch?

How about contacting LM and asking those questions?

 

[strawbrick]

How about contacting LM and asking those questions?

Already done that! I'll post any answer as and when.

I raised the query because, apart from claims that there will be a specific extra number of seats a week on some services, there is nothing anywhere on LM's web-sites giving details.

 

[swt_passenger]

Come to that, are there any actual specific details of anything to do with this extensio, e.g. the re-casting of the time-table for the St Albans Abbey branch?

Running one extra service per day wouldn't fit many peoples definition of a timetable recast. It can be achieved with either an earlier start or a later finish, running in the usual times.

3400 / 7 days / 2 directions = 242. So the capacity of a single 319?

 

[strawbrick]

Actually, I was being optimistic in seeking details of a re-cast ...

Being a cynic, the "extra train per day" could just mean that the current 20 trains per day service will simply revert to the 21 trains per day service which LM operated from way back when until 23rd October 2015.

So, giving something back which you previously took away is an "improvement".

 

[swt_passenger]

So, giving something back which you previously took away is an "improvement".

My thoughts were also that sticking an extra train on at one end of the day or the other does absolutely nothing for peak time passengers; but will still be spun as extra capacity all round...

 

[CromptonLad]

Must wonder if for this 18month-2yr extension they'll draft in extra staff?

Biasedly hoping so.

 

[Stats]

Must wonder if for this 18month-2yr extension they'll draft in extra staff?

Biasedly hoping so.

According to the Written Ministerial Statement they will recruit extra drivers, conductors, revenue protection staff and employ more apprentices.

 

[jon0844]

Actually, I was being optimistic in seeking details of a re-cast ...

Being a cynic, the "extra train per day" could just mean that the current 20 trains per day service will simply revert to the 21 trains per day service which LM operated from way back when until 23rd October 2015.

So, giving something back which you previously took away is an "improvement".

I think they need to work on the current 20 a day before worrying about adding more. Or does it just mean the buses are going to be hired in for a bit longer?!

 

[CromptonLad]

According to the Written Ministerial Statement they will recruit extra drivers, conductors, revenue protection staff and employ more apprentices.

Thanks for the information Stats, much appreciated.

 

[40907]

trainophile is correct, it is the inbound Hereford-Birmingham trains that are over- crowded.
Last week on the 09-40 ex-HFD the train was full leaving Malvern, and there were around eighty pax waiting at Worcester, and more at Droitwich and Bromsgrove. Two cars is not enough, even four would have been full. Never seen a train so crammed.

And yet, this Autumn I went to Kidderminster a few times, ex-Hereford, changing at Droitwich. The Worcester-Whitlocks End service was more than two cars, and hardly anyone on-board. I just wonder if London Midland really make the effort to match rolling stock to demand? greater minds, I suppose...

To the other poster, I was on a five-car Hereford peak departure from New Street last week, and that was standing only, even before we got to University.

 

[the sniper]

And yet, this Autumn I went to Kidderminster a few times, ex-Hereford, changing at Droitwich. The Worcester-Whitlocks End service was more than two cars, and hardly anyone on-board. I just wonder if London Midland really make the effort to match rolling stock to demand? greater minds, I suppose...

While I agree they've probably just diagrammed that to upset you and for the lolz, it's possible that later in the diagram that train length is required to accommodate demand elsewhere?

To the other poster, I was on a five-car Hereford peak departure from New Street last week, and that was standing only, even before we got to University.

And it was still probably the least overcrowded 170 worked LM train leaving New Street that night...

I said they can leave with everyone getting a seat, not that it always or even normally does.

 

[Class 170101]

172s may not help here as the train crew have to sign the Traction and the Traction itself be route cleared. I am not aware of any 172 workings at New Street.

 

[the sniper]

172s may not help here as the train crew have to sign the Traction and the Traction itself be route cleared. I am not aware of any 172 workings at New Street.

There are a few booked Hereford - BHM trips with 172s, I think it's a more regular thing on Sundays though.

Train crew isn't a problem as only Worcester crew sign between Droitwich and New Street, and they sign 172s.

 

[Ibex]

172s may not help here as the train crew have to sign the Traction and the Traction itself be route cleared. I am not aware of any 172 workings at New Street.

There's only one or two per day, there certainly used to be a New Street - Hereford on a Saturday which was formed of a 172 but they may have changed to a 150 now. (Or a 170!)

 

[Morgsie]

According to the Franchising schedule on the DfT website this particular Franchise competition starts this month for the next Franchise. There is nothing on the DfT website regarding starting the competition for the next West Midlands Franchise only that the current one is extended

 

[185143]

172s may not help here as the train crew have to sign the Traction and the Traction itself be route cleared. I am not aware of any 172 workings at New Street.

I had the mid morning Worcester-New Street Saturday service as a 172 back in October. Happy was an understatement as to how I was at Bromsgrove!

 

[swt_passenger]

According to the Franchising schedule on the DfT website this particular Franchise competition starts this month for the next Franchise. There is nothing on the DfT website regarding starting the competition for the next West Midlands Franchise only that the current one is extended

The next stage is only 'expression of interest'. That is usually fairly low key, and could happen any time this month. The competition as such seems to start later.

For comparison the South Western call for expression of interest only came out in the last week of November. Don't think it got mentioned in the forums?

 

[sprinterguy]

trainophile is correct, it is the inbound Hereford-Birmingham trains that are over- crowded.
Last week on the 09-40 ex-HFD the train was full leaving Malvern, and there were around eighty pax waiting at Worcester, and more at Droitwich and Bromsgrove. Two cars is not enough, even four would have been full. Never seen a train so crammed.

And yet, this Autumn I went to Kidderminster a few times, ex-Hereford, changing at Droitwich. The Worcester-Whitlocks End service was more than two cars, and hardly anyone on-board. I just wonder if London Midland really make the effort to match rolling stock to demand? greater minds, I suppose...

In my experience, the Droitwich to Kidderminster section is the quietest part of the western side of the Snow Hill lines. There's a healthy demand from commuting, school trips and day trippers heading towards Worcester from Droitwich Spa of course, but I don't know how much this maps across to Kidderminster during the peaks.

The Snow Hill line trains become a lot busier from Stourbridge Junction and in towards Birmingham, where 3 and 4 carriage trains (the typical length of the Whitlocks End trains - longer formations also operate on these and other services during the peaks) are very much required, as the recent and ongoing shortage of serviceable 172s has made abundantly clear.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's only one or two per day, there certainly used to be a New Street - Hereford on a Saturday which was formed of a 172 but they may have changed to a 150 now. (Or a 170!)

There's an all day diagram for a 3-car 172 on the Hereford services on a Sunday, and, unless the diagrams have changed very recently, a couple of "shopper special" services that takes a 172 (3-car) into Birmingham from Worcester on a Saturday morning and back out again (4-car, and through to Hereford) at teatime.

 

[JaJaWa]

For comparison the South Western call for expression of interest only came out in the last week of November. Don't think it got mentioned in the forums?

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=123105