What Mainline trains have no guards panel?

[hornbyfan99]

Does anybody know what MAINLINE EMU/DMUs do not have a guards panel?

From what I've seen, only the Heathrow Express units do not have a guards panel.


Is there a list for it?

 

[asylumxl]

I may be wrong but I believe the 319s don't have them and have had them added upon cascade.

 

[RPM]

Chiltern 168s. The 168/0s & 168/1s don't have them at all. 168/2s & 168/3s have them, but they're not used. When working with a guard, door control is carried out by the driver, under the guard's instruction, communicated by bell/buzzer codes.

 

[hairyhandedfool]

I may be wrong but I believe the 319s don't have them and have had them added upon cascade.

The 319s were introduced with door controls in each cab (two sets (left and right) on the desk and one set on the bulkhead by each cab door), but only activated by a door key switch in one cab (two door key switches activated in the same train tripped "Doors 1" MCB IIRC). FCC later had this changed so that the only usable door controls were in the cab that the master key switch was active in, and, IIRC, the bulkhead buttons were plated over. Cascading to Northern has seen those units have panels added in each coach (but not the cabs).

 

[Bletchleyite]

Voyagers only have a DKS and signal buzzer, door control is done by the driver using buzzer codes.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Guards on Northern 150s (both types, I think) always seem to return to the narrow vestibule by the back cab to release the doors, in my observations.

 

[CatfordCat]

The 319s were introduced with door controls in each cab

I can't remember whether the St Pancras - Bedford bit of the line went DOO at exactly the same time as the 319s were introduced, but I'm sure that (when I used the line fairly regularly in the early 90s) DOO operation only extended as far south as Farringdon, and a guard joined / left the train there.

 

[Emblematic]

I can't remember whether the St Pancras - Bedford bit of the line went DOO at exactly the same time as the 319s were introduced, but I'm sure that (when I used the line fairly regularly in the early 90s) DOO operation only extended as far south as Farringdon, and a guard joined / left the train there.

I believe the 317s were DOO on the BedPan route, and wasn't the delayed launch of the BedPan electrics due to a dispute over DOO? In which case, DOO was established prior to Thameslink and the 319s.

 

[Hadders]

365s don't have a guards panel.

 

[plastictaffy]

321's had GOP's in some, but the ones LM had at the end (411-417 inclusive) didn't have them.

hairyhandedfool - 319's must now have the facility to have a number 1 key in the trailing cab for door operation. A number one key in BOTH cabs will also trip the door MCB - I've seen it done on a 321.

 

[chris11256]

357s don't have a guard panel. On the few 12 carriage services that run the guard stays in a cab towards the rear of the train. Even then I think the driver still controls the doors. The guard buzzes the driver when clear and such.

 

[Class 466]

Southeastern's 465/9 'Weald' units that are used on Mainline services (when not substituted by a Metro 465/0/1/2!) do not have guards panels throughout the train. The guard on these will stay in the rear unit - which when in a 4+4+2 formation leads to 80% of the train going unchecked!

 

[tsr]

One of the most bizarre must be the situation on 377s, where guards have the ability to close the doors from the saloon but not the cabs, where the "ten-bell" system must be used!

 

[LowLevel]

365s don't have a guards panel.

They presumably either had them previously or just worked on the 10 bells system for when they were in use with Connex SouthEastern as I seem to recall they were used on guard operated trains.

 

[Sebastian O]

(the) 458/0 does not have a guard panel AFAIK.

 

[Kentish Paul]

They presumably either had them previously or just worked on the 10 bells system for when they were in use with Connex SouthEastern as I seem to recall they were used on guard operated trains.

They were. The guard operated from a cab as with the current 465s.

 

[DasLunatic]

They presumably either had them previously or just worked on the 10 bells system for when they were in use with Connex SouthEastern as I seem to recall they were used on guard operated trains.

What exactly is the 'ten bell system'?

 

[Pumbaa]

Yep they did. In the same place as now in the TOSLW. Were never used till the refurb and rebuilding due to wiring issues.

 

[Domh245]

What exactly is the 'ten bell system'?

1-2 (G>D) close doors
1-2 (D>G) acknowledge instruction to close doors

*doors close*

2 (G>D) ready to start
2 (D>G) acknowledge instruction

3+3+2+2=10 bells

 

[Class 466]

1-2 (G>D) close doors
1-2 (D>G) acknowledge instruction to close doors

*doors close*

2 (G>D) ready to start
2 (D>G) acknowledge instruction

3+3+2+2=10 bells

On SE the guard closes the doors... and then bells twice to tell the driver to proceed. the driver then responds with 2 bells. thats how it was on 365s and is on 375s/377s/465s/466s now.

 

[Domh245]

On SE the guard closes the doors... and then bells twice to tell the driver to proceed. the driver then responds with 2 bells. thats how it was on 365s and is on 375s/377s/465s/466s now.

That is the system used on most trains where the guard closes the doors (The vast majority of trains), however the 10 bells system as detailed above is where the guard is in control of the dispatch, but the driver has to carry out the door closing operation.

 

[craigybagel]

Is the question what trains don't have guards panels anywhere (as in the only door controls are in the cab, in such a position that you have to be sitting in the drivers seat to use them) or only have them at the extreme ends (rearmost cab, or rearmost door for trains without external cab doors)? People seem to be answering both. If the latter I'd like to submit class 153, no intermediate panels on them