Crossrail livery and interior revealed by TfL

[LLivery]

30/37 stations will have them:



http://www.romfordrecorder.co.uk/news/brentwood_rail_campaigner_calling_for_toilets_on_board_crossrail_after_unearthing_original_plans_1_1787312

That is much more than I expected. Wonder if they'll actually be open all the time...
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Mod request: split posts about yellow front ends no longer being required into new thread.

Here's an image of Class 399 for Sheffield which also won't have them.

Looks good - any more pictures anywhere? Must say though, if track workers say that they value the yellow ends, why should they be ignored? There really is no need to change.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Personally, with electric trains services outside of the Crossrail services expected to start next year, I cannot see how that can be achieved and since it has taken about 2 - 3 years to get to where we are now, it is going to take a super human push to get the wires up before Crossrail starts in 2018.

The only way that I can see any progress happening is if the route between Reading and Slough is closed for a week over Christmas/New Year to be the wires in place, then over the Easter weekend do the wires from Slough to Southall.

Electrification to Maidenhead and Reading for CrossRail services will be completed on time. London Paddington/Heathrow out to Maidenhead is the Crossrail West Outer Electrification work package, financially and legally, it's a completely separate project with its own contractors, budget and output requirements from the rest of the GWep.

There is some overlap between contracts, and they're both committed to providing the same standard of OLE using the same components and designs, but the work is separate. That's why there's so much going on west of Reading - different team, different requirements, different outputs.

The teams are getting really good wire run lengths each evening now, as long as we can get masts in the ground and clearance for the wires, there's a bit of a chance of getting some recovery on the GWep timetable too, but expect to see rapid (and I genuinely mean rapid) progress on the CrossRail project over the next few months.

 

[JaJaWa]

Looks good - any more pictures anywhere? Must say though, if track workers say that they value the yellow ends, why should they be ignored? There really is no need to change.

I don't think they were ignored, a full consultation was carried out.

 

[prod_pep]

Interesting to see the moquette is somewhat different from the TfL Rail one. I'm sure TfL claimed on Twitter a while back that Crossrail's new trains would use the same moquette as TfL Rail.

The lack of yellow front ends is going to take some getting used to, but it's quite stylish on the whole.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Was surveying in Scotland on a single track line near Culloden and a pair of 158s approached on a straight section. First thing you see is the Yellow front.

But Class 158s don't have the kind of super-high-intensity headlights provided on things like 350s. On those, at least from a passenger perspective, it is the almost dazzlingly bright headlamp you see first, even during the day.

 

[RobShipway]

Electrification to Maidenhead and Reading for CrossRail services will be completed on time. London Paddington/Heathrow out to Maidenhead is the Crossrail West Outer Electrification work package, financially and legally, it's a completely separate project with its own contractors, budget and output requirements from the rest of the GWep.

There is some overlap between contracts, and they're both committed to providing the same standard of OLE using the same components and designs, but the work is separate. That's why there's so much going on west of Reading - different team, different requirements, different outputs.

The teams are getting really good wire run lengths each evening now, as long as we can get masts in the ground and clearance for the wires, there's a bit of a chance of getting some recovery on the GWep timetable too, but expect to see rapid (and I genuinely mean rapid) progress on the CrossRail project over the next few months.

Thanks Philip. Rapid progress needs to be made over the next few noths as you state. Hopefully, they will be able to get a fair bit done depending on the weather around the Christmas holiday time.

 

[AM9]

.... The teams are getting really good wire run lengths each evening now, as long as we can get masts in the ground and clearance for the wires, there's a bit of a chance of getting some recovery on the GWep timetable too, but expect to see rapid (and I genuinely mean rapid) progress on the CrossRail project over the next few months.

That's a really good illustration of why decent portals structures and/or single track cantilevers are so much better than headspans. Each line can be installed, tested and used even if the adjacent lines aren't. No faffing around with getting the headspan tensions right as each new line is connected.

 

[matt_world2004]

Interesting to see the moquette is somewhat different from the TfL Rail one. I'm sure TfL claimed on Twitter a while back that Crossrail's new trains would use the same moquette as TfL Rail.

The lack of yellow front ends is going to take some getting used to, but it's quite stylish on the whole.

It looks the same to me very atari.

 

[100andthirty]

If you study the front of a modern train with modern headlights (ie 21st century), most of them have very little yellow on the front. A good example was the Pendolinos when they were running with the coupler cover raised. When the whole yellow front started, the typical front illumination was two marker lights that appeared to be powered by under-active glow worms or the illumination of the route number blinds. Headlamps have come on a long way since then.

 

[cjp]

I note that bicycles are excluded from the list of 'multi-use spaces' on the 'New Crossrail trains' movie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhMLV4adGIQ

I found this somewhat concerning as an infrequent visitor to London for whom TfL bike hire would be significantly less suitable as an alternative to bringing my own bike.

I was relieved to read an item on the London Cycling Campaign website (dated November 2013) suggesting that carriage of bicycles will (at least) be maintained on existing routes assumed into the Crossrail network as per the current arrangements (not during peak hours). http://lcc.org.uk/discussions/carriage-of-non-folding-bikes-on-crossrail-a-breakthrough

If carriage is to be maintained into Paddington & Liverpool Street, then why not all the way through the system? Is such an increase of loading anticipated in the section between these traditional termini?

Hear hear.

I was told no cycles in the tunnels (and why not???) and both Paddington and Liverpool Street stations are in tunnels
So things are worse for cyclist so beloved of Boris
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The class 707's will not have toilets either I believe that will be moving to the Windsor to Waterloo route and will be no different then trains such as the class 455 trains that do inner suburban routes up to an hour or more.

If a toilet is needed, then you will have the class 387/365 doing GWR local services that will have toilets on board going into Paddington.

With regards to XR stations having toilets, you have Twyford, Maidenhead, Burnham, Slough, Langley, Iver, West Drayton, Southall and Ealing Broadway.

The Free toilets on Heathrow Connect are clean and popular - especially in the evenings.
Just saying

 

[SpacePhoenix]

When will the prototype likely be made by?

 

[ess]

Looks like there are only door open buttons - no door close?
Also I don't see any luggage racks?

 

[coppercapped]

There aren't any luggage racks on the Central Line either!

 

[D365]

There aren't any luggage racks on the Central Line either!

But the Central line doesn't serve Heathrow, nor an outer suburban branch.

 

[jopsuk]

Shenfield is about as far out as Epping. Crossrail to reading remains daft

 

[306024]

But the Central line doesn't serve Heathrow, nor an outer suburban branch.

But the Piccadilly line does. Not sure you would want to heave a 20kg suitcase above your head anyway.

Crossrail only going to Maidenhead would arguably have been dafter.

 

[prod_pep]

It looks the same to me very atari.

Similar but not the same. The TfL Rail version uses the 'snot green' shade the 315s have in their vestibules, while the Crossrail version has a mainly white background. The patterns are also slightly different but they are both part of the common design also seen on London Overground, Tramlink and the Emirates Air Line.

Obviously the Crossrail moquette is subject to change, but it does look cleaner than TfL Rail in the designs.

 

[JonathanH]

Shenfield is about as far out as Epping. Crossrail to reading remains daft

Shenfield has pretty good onward connections as much of the outer suburban service to East Anglia stops there and there is only a half-hourly long-distance service to accommodate on the line.

Possible places you could terminate Crossrail are Slough, Maidenhead or Reading. Reading has much better onward connections than either of the shorter distance services. You can't stop lots of trains on the mainline at either Slough or Maidenhead and having trains cross to the relief lines also takes up capacity. Reading is the natural terminus for a stopping service from London.

 

[L+Y]

Looks good - any more pictures anywhere? Must say though, if track workers say that they value the yellow ends, why should they be ignored? There really is no need to change.

Indeed: I'm amazed that the Unions haven't kicked off about these proposals yet...?

 

[D6975]

When will the prototype likely be made by?

One end coach has been built for evaluation and testing before the proper run starts. The shot of the unfitted bodyshell that I saw was dated July 2015, so it must be ready for release about now if not already out.

 

[Fincra5]

Looks like there are only door open buttons - no door close?
Also I don't see any luggage racks?

Would imagine the doors will Auto-Close after being open for a duration. That and the dwell times in central stations will be short i'd imagine so not needed.

 

[hwl]

One end coach has been built for evaluation and testing before the proper run starts. The shot of the unfitted bodyshell that I saw was dated July 2015, so it must be ready for release about now if not already out.

The press release at the time indicated it was largely for manufacturing evaluation (mock up) than test running evaluation so it may never make it outside.

 

[swt_passenger]

Would imagine the doors will Auto-Close after being open for a duration. That and the dwell times in central stations will be short i'd imagine so not needed.

Its also 108 less things to go wrong. (If they had buttons on both sides of every door.)

They are probably a waste of space on most trains, it isn't as if many people ever bother to close the doors behind them, even on the coldest or wettest days...

 

[TheNewNo2]

Just looks like a new model of a Networker to me. Even the interior is grey! Though I think that is a bit of a mistake to go back to grey. The dark interiors of the Networkers/Turbos isn't great - that's why its been ditched for brighter colours in refurbs.

I think the livery is quite good and will look better in reality; the use of black reminds me of the RER. I would have liked a bit more 2+2 seating, but at least its better than none. I doubt the Shenfield Metro commuters will be happy with the huge loss of seating per train but if the timetable in practice is as frequent as planned then it shouldn't be much of a problem. Disagree that a toilet isn't needed - lots people may not be travelling from Reading to Central London but they will be from Twyford and Maidenhead. I've used toilets on London Bridge to Sydenham (15 mins) and Windsor to London Waterloo services. How many XR stations will actually have toilets? I'm thinking almost zero between Shenfield and Stratford.

As Diamond Geezer points out, a Crossrail train will be significantly longer than twin 315s, so I'd imagine there wouldn't be such a big loss in seats, especially as the 315s are 3+2 and thus you can't sit comfortably in most of them anyway.

Hear hear.

I was told no cycles in the tunnels (and why not???) and both Paddington and Liverpool Street stations are in tunnels
So things are worse for cyclist so beloved of Boris

Because trying to get bikes on and off at crowded central stations is clearly not going to cause problems.

Would imagine the doors will Auto-Close after being open for a duration. That and the dwell times in central stations will be short i'd imagine so not needed.

I'd expect that in the central station the door controls would be isolated anyway due to the PEDs.

 

[LLivery]

As Diamond Geezer points out, a Crossrail train will be significantly longer than twin 315s, so I'd imagine there wouldn't be such a big loss in seats, especially as the 315s are 3+2 and thus you can't sit comfortably in most of them anyway.

Yes I know the carriages are longer but TfL have said themselves that there will be 454 seats per train, compared to 632 on an 8 car 315. That is quite a loss. 3+2 may not be comfortable on the 315s but all the seats are filled at 18:00!

 

[FordFocus]

Any mockups of the cab? Heard that Bombardier are going to go for a completely new approach compared to the older Electrostar designs.

 

[andyb2706]

Surely, yellow ends (at least 50% of the area) is mandated for mainline use.

Exactly, the artist impression is not how they will look as the fronts have to be yellow to run on the national network. Why do they always omit this in the artist impressions?

Oops....just read more of the threads regarding the change of RSSB policy.....I think a campaign to keep yellow fronts is needed, trains in the UK would not look right without them, and without reading the RSSB article will tis be able to be retrofitted to older vehicles if they have the right headlights?

 

[Chrisyd]

Are the trains still being made on the basis that two extra carriages can be added making the total length 240m, or have I dreamed that specification up?

 

[swt_passenger]

I think a campaign to keep yellow fronts is needed, trains in the UK would not look right without them, and without reading the RSSB article will tis be able to be retrofitted to older vehicles if they have the right headlights?

The amended group standard states quite clearly that if the lights are to the latest spec, the yellow panel is no longer needed. I can't really see anyone spending money to actively remove them though.

I expect such a campaign would get nowhere.

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Are the trains still being made on the basis that two extra carriages can be added making the total length 240m, or have I dreamed that specification up?

No significant reason why they cannot still be extended, the key issue is the station tunnels, which are being built to 250m length, allowing a few metres spare either end. That was to allow for a length increase from 200 > 240m when a 10 x 20m train was originally expected. (Even earlier that was to have been 2 x 5 x 20m IIRC.)

So 9 x 22.3 (200m approx), can grow to 11 x 22.3, and still be a few metres short of the platform tunnel length.

 

[tankmc]

Nice! I like the livery