Standing whilst an attachment takes place

[infobleep]

I know nothing much can be done about the following and I'm not expecting it to be but I thought it was interesting.

The guard or driver of the delayed 6.59 Haywards Heath to London Bridge service has asked that everyone remain seated whilst an attachment takes place.

Of course there are a number of people standing in the aisles because there are no seats spare and I was in the 8th carriage, which was the last one before the attachment took place. I so no spare seats in the other carriages either!

I'm fairly certain that on these services at least it's not a problem standing when they make the attachment. May be it would be if one moved. Not tried that. I just stayed where I was.

If one wanted to be pedantic you could say that perhaps they should announce please don't move whilst the attachment takes place. However it's a minor point as if it really was dangerous we wouldn't be on the train when they made the attachment. Still I thought it interesting.

Our delay was a passenger pulling an alarm at Burgess Hill on the 6.40 from there which has lead to 16 minute delays to trains behind it. Hopefully all is OK with the passengers on that train.

 

[A-driver]

The only 100% safe way to attach a train is to kick absolutely everyone off both portions. But this will substantially increase the time it takes to attach and also cause lots of complaints from the passengers as they will loose their seats and have to stand in the burning sun/freezing cold/pouring rain etc.

At Cambridge the passenger associations have demanded to be allowed to board the portion that waits at Cambridge for the Lynn section to arrive. This means both sections have passengers onboard. Some drivers don't allow this and get a lot of grief off regulars despite it being the drivers decision weather to allow people onto that portion of not.

But regarding a specific announcement, most people will use common sense and understand that the announcement is basically warning an attachment is to take place and sit or hold onto something as there may be a jolt. All I ever say when attaching is that an attachment is about to take place and the doors will be closed whilst this happens.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

At Cambridge the passenger associations have demanded to be allowed to board the portion that waits at Cambridge for the Lynn section to arrive. This means both sections have passengers onboard. Some drivers don't allow this and get a lot of grief off regulars despite it being the drivers decision weather to allow people onto that portion of not.

How long generally does it have to wait for the Lynn portion to arrive?

 

[RichJF]

On the subject of attaching, splitting; I've noticed at Purley that frequently when 2x 455's are attached the front unit is left open & passenger 'friendly' while the rear is understandably locked while attached.
There's quite a jolt when they couple up, but passengers are still allowed to board the front unit and often stand during the attachment.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The guard or driver of the delayed 6.59 Haywards Heath to London Bridge service has asked that everyone remain seated whilst an attachment takes place.

Not dissimilar I guess to the notice on buses saying to ring the bell and remain seated, thus not taking into account of those who are already standing due to a lack of seats.

 

[A-driver]

How long generally does it have to wait for the Lynn portion to arrive?

Generally around 5mins from the down Lynn being split and front portion departing north to the southbound Lynn train arriving. depending how Ontime they are.

 

[Juniper Driver]

If I'm coupling up I generally let the passengers off first if possible.Not really for safety reasons (it's ben safe enough over many coupling up operations) but just as I prefer it that way.I generally couple up softly anyway so no real problems with that but it generally avoids confusion and I like to take my time.

 

[najaB]

I generally couple up softly anyway so no real problems with that but it generally avoids confusion and I like to take my time.

That's what she said.

*Sorry, couldn't resist. Coat grabbed.

 

[Starmill]

You wouldn't want to be standing during some of the 'controlled' attachments between 156s at Kilmarnock, that's for sure!!!

 

[Phil.]

Makes you wonder how we used to split and attach "back in the day" on the Southern with all those lethal CEPS/BEPS/CIG/BIG/VEPS. I had to wait on platform 1 at Cambridge a few years ago whilst the portion from Lynn came up. We couldn't wait on the train because of, the young lady five minute manager explained "health and safety". The same reason was given at Northampton last year when I and several dozen more punters were told to detrain whilst another set was attached at the rear. "It's for your safety mate".
Worlds gone mad.

 

[A-driver]

Makes you wonder how we used to split and attach "back in the day" on the Southern with all those lethal CEPS/BEPS/CIG/BIG/VEPS. I had to wait on platform 1 at Cambridge a few years ago whilst the portion from Lynn came up. We couldn't wait on the train because of, the young lady five minute manager explained "health and safety". The same reason was given at Northampton last year when I and several dozen more punters were told to detrain whilst another set was attached at the rear. "It's for your safety mate".

Worlds gone mad.

As I say, it's drivers discretion. Recently there was an incident at Cambridge which led to passengers complaining of whiplash during an attachment. There was a bit more to it but since then a number of drivers refuse to allow people on. Not a major issue, it the entire train was a through train from Lynn then you wouldn't be able to board until departure time.

 

[ComUtoR]

I generally couple up softly anyway so no real problems with that but it generally avoids confusion and I like to take my time.

Our 2-Cars are notoriously mental. They crash together with quite a bang and thrash about when doing the push/pull test. I wouldn't want passengers on them whilst attaching.

 

[321446]

It's probably a combination of good old fashioned Customer Service and nw fangled Covering of Insurance Policy Related Bottoms - "You broke my nail when you coupled" "We're you told to sit down?", "Errrrr, yes" "No case to answer"

 

[HarleyDavidson]

They won't allow you on a train (455/456) if it has to be coupled up, this is down to an incident some years ago where another train came in on top of the other that was to be attached to and it slid into it causing numerous injuries.

Juniper Driver can probably remember that one.

The coupling up/dividing of a 444/450/442 is different and was allowed from day one, but they have different rules and the 444/450 also have automated announcements telling you that it will be attaching to another train and to remain seated, that way if you ignore that warning, it's your responsibility.

 

[BestWestern]

On the subject of attaching, splitting; I've noticed at Purley that frequently when 2x 455's are attached the front unit is left open & passenger 'friendly' while the rear is understandably locked while attached.
There's quite a jolt when they couple up, but passengers are still allowed to board the front unit and often stand during the attachment.

Both units surely need to be locked in order to complete an attachment...?

 

[Johncleesefan]

Surely not, they'd have to close and lock the doors to test continuity anyway so why not keep them locked prior to attachment

 

[Kentish Paul]

Makes you wonder how we used to split and attach "back in the day" on the Southern with all those lethal CEPS/BEPS/CIG/BIG/VEPS. I had to wait on platform 1 at Cambridge a few years ago whilst the portion from Lynn came up. We couldn't wait on the train because of, the young lady five minute manager explained "health and safety". The same reason was given at Northampton last year when I and several dozen more punters were told to detrain whilst another set was attached at the rear. "It's for your safety mate".
Worlds gone mad.

We still split and attach at Ashford like the "good old days". Passengers on both bits and only the doors locked at the exact moment. Don't think i've heard an announcment on a class 395.

 

[James Wake]

I know nothing much can be done about the following and I'm not expecting it to be but I thought it was interesting.

The guard or driver of the delayed 6.59 Haywards Heath to London Bridge service has asked that everyone remain seated whilst an attachment takes place.

Of course there are a number of people standing in the aisles because there are no seats spare and I was in the 8th carriage, which was the last one before the attachment took place. I so no spare seats in the other carriages either!

I'm fairly certain that on these services at least it's not a problem standing when they make the attachment. May be it would be if one moved. Not tried that. I just stayed where I was.

If one wanted to be pedantic you could say that perhaps they should announce please don't move whilst the attachment takes place. However it's a minor point as if it really was dangerous we wouldn't be on the train when they made the attachment. Still I thought it interesting.

Our delay was a passenger pulling an alarm at Burgess Hill on the 6.40 from there which has lead to 16 minute delays to trains behind it. Hopefully all is OK with the passengers on that train.

I was on the 0722 Three Bridges to Victoria as normal this morning, the Brighton portion was delayed behind that Gatwick Express, so the Portsmouth portion ended up on the front. The driver announced to please take your seats as the attachment takes place. Erm, there were 20 people standing in the first coach, only 3 first class seats available (a 377/1 where the seats are the same and there is no dividing door). I felt a slight jolt, that was all.

 

[A-driver]

Surely not, they'd have to close and lock the doors to test continuity anyway so why not keep them locked prior to attachment

Why do the doors need to be closed to test continuity? I agree they should be closed as crashing a train into another whilst people are boarding is not safe but you should be able to test continuity with open doors.
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I was on the 0722 Three Bridges to Victoria as normal this morning, the Brighton portion was delayed behind that Gatwick Express, so the Portsmouth portion ended up on the front. The driver announced to please take your seats as the attachment takes place. Erm, there were 20 people standing in the first coach, only 3 first class seats available (a 377/1 where the seats are the same and there is no dividing door). I felt a slight jolt, that was all.

Not sure how you expect the driver to know how many seats are left and how many people are standing. They can't see inside the coaches.

 

[James Wake]

Not sure how you expect the driver to know how many seats are left and how many people are standing. They can't see inside the coaches.

Of course I don't expect the driver to know. A better announcement I have heard is "If there are seats available, please take a seat, if you are standing please ensure you are holding onto something. Thank you"

 

[SPADTrap]

the driver announced to please take your seats as the attachment takes place. Erm, there were 20 people standing in the first coach, only 3 first class seats available (a 377/1 where the seats are the same and there is no dividing door). I felt a slight jolt, that was all.

Hope you let him/her know so next time they'll de-train you

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Why do the doors need to be closed to test continuity? I agree they should be closed as crashing a train into another whilst people are boarding is not safe but you should be able to test continuity with open doors.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Not sure how you expect the driver to know how many seats are left and how many people are standing. They can't see inside the coaches.

Because there's a pending change in the BCW. If you then can't release the brakes, you know which unit is at fault.

Because if the front unit was fine and when the second one attaches, you've just doubled the length of your BCW, also if you then can't release the brakes you know where the problem lies.

 

[A-driver]

Because there's a pending change in the BCW. If you then can't release the brakes, you know which unit is at fault.



Because if the front unit was fine and when the second one attaches, you've just doubled the length of your BCW, also if you then can't release the brakes you know where the problem lies.

Fair enough. In depots we do attachments with doors open and just move the brakes back to check for continuity. Each company has its own attachment policy I suppose.

 

[SPADTrap]

Fair enough. In depots we do attachments with doors open and just move the brakes back to check for continuity. Each company has its own attachment policy I suppose.

Guess it varies on stock where brakes are interlocked to the doors too.

 

[infobleep]

You wouldn't want to be standing during some of the 'controlled' attachments between 156s at Kilmarnock, that's for sure!!!

Are those trains not as packed so no one would need to be standing?

I got a seat today at Gatwick Airport so the train I was on wasn't totally rammed, although people were still standing in the aisles even after that stop, so no spare seats remained.

For totally rammed though see the late running 7.56 from East Croydon to Clapham Junction. Very cosy indeed. Lol. It's an adventure boarding such a service, which I don't mind doing now and again but I wouldn't want to do it every day.

As I had another train to catch, I thought it best I board that rather than wait for another train, as who knows when that might turn up and what it would connect with.

 

[HowardGWR]

Because there's a pending change in the BCW. If you then can't release the brakes, you know which unit is at fault.

Because if the front unit was fine and when the second one attaches, you've just doubled the length of your BCW, also if you then can't release the brakes you know where the problem lies.

What's a BCW please?

At Salisbury, they keep the rear arriving 159 unit closed doors until coupling has finished (only a minute or so). De-training pax are already pressed up against doors waiting and I don't remember, ever, any safety warnings given. One is just told what is happening.

 

[infobleep]

It's probably a combination of good old fashioned Customer Service and nw fangled Covering of Insurance Policy Related Bottoms - "You broke my nail when you coupled" "We're you told to sit down?", "Errrrr, yes" "No case to answer"

That may be the case. Some passengers would probably sue as a matter of course.

Our of interest, would sitting down include the floor? Perhaps everyone standing could do that. Would be amusing to watch all the commuters trying to get to and from the floor. I sometimes sit on the floor if the train is packed and three is space to do so.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I was on the 0722 Three Bridges to Victoria as normal this morning, the Brighton portion was delayed behind that Gatwick Express, so the Portsmouth portion ended up on the front. The driver announced to please take your seats as the attachment takes place. Erm, there were 20 people standing in the first coach, only 3 first class seats available (a 377/1 where the seats are the same and there is no dividing door). I felt a slight jolt, that was all.

That was all I felt. In fact I had planned to be on that very train but decided I'd best get the first one that leaves as I had to get a connecting train at Clapham Junction and the delays were just over 15 minutes at that point. They went up higher during the journey as well, which is to be expected during delays.

 

[A-driver]

What's a BCW please?



At Salisbury, they keep the rear arriving 159 unit closed doors until coupling has finished (only a minute or so). De-training pax are already pressed up against doors waiting and I don't remember, ever, any safety warnings given. One is just told what is happening.

BCW is a brake continuity wire. Also known as wire 13 (if anyone is in anyway interested!)

If broken the emergancy brake locks on and can't be released until the wire is 'good' again. Systems like TPWS, interlock, drum switch (the coupling mechanism), low air Governors, pass comm on older stock, emergancy brake plungers in any cab etc all form part of his wire.

 

[Phil.]

As I say, it's drivers discretion. Recently there was an incident at Cambridge which led to passengers complaining of whiplash during an attachment. There was a bit more to it but since then a number of drivers refuse to allow people on. Not a major issue, it the entire train was a through train from Lynn then you wouldn't be able to board until departure time.

Usual kneejerk reaction then.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Of course I don't expect the driver to know. A better announcement I have heard is "If there are seats available, please take a seat, if you are standing please ensure you are holding onto something. Thank you"

Or even, "we are about to attach another train to this one. There may be a slight jolt during this process."

 

[BestWestern]

The jolt of attaching trains is no worse, unless it's being done by someone who's heavy handed, than the general movement of a train travelling at speed over pointwork etc. The idea of needing a safety announcement just invents a theoretical 'hazard' where one clearly doesn't exist. It's nonsense.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Fair enough. In depots we do attachments with doors open and just move the brakes back to check for continuity. Each company has its own attachment policy I suppose.

Surely continuity can only be checked by releasing the brakes? Or are we talking stock with traction interlock rather than brake interlock?

On Sprinter stock the procedure with our lot is attach & pull, brake test then undertaken by by releasing down through the steps, ideally with somebody on the other set to confirm the same is happening next door.