I am pleasantly surprised that they agreed to take the case at this point, per their rules they normally don't get involved until the TOC has made a final decision. Please do let us know what happens.
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Do this seem fair to you?
- Thread starter Paddy17
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Yep, well Govia's 1st letter said they were considering prosecution and requested that I give my version of events. I responded and told them everything and gave them a copy of my season ticket etc.
Govia then sent me a second letter saying that nothing that I have said makes any difference and that I am to pay £254.20 or else they will prosecute, so arguably they have considered everything and made their final decision? Either way I am really happy that London Travelwatch are going to speak with them and am hoping this will all get sorted as it should never have got to this.
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DaveNewcastle
Established Member
I would advise that any communication concerning a prosecution or a criminal investigation (or even a civil one) should all be in writing.
Yes. Not only to provide a records, but also to avoid uncertainty, and to assist in clarity. Where there are facts to be presented, then doing so in writing allows them to aquire a structure which gives the right weight to each point and shows any dependency of one point on another - something that often goes wrong in conversations.
gray1404
Established Member
I would agree with the above that their second letter could be seen as their final decision i.e. to prosecute if you don't pay up the above amount.
This is why I am happy that London Travelwatch are involved now. The TOC was presented with the OP version of events along with the supporting evidence of the season ticket and to say that nothing the OP said in his reply carried any weight any to proceed in the way they have really does warrant the involvment of a Customer Watchdog. I think given the seriousness of this matter and the threat of the matter being taken to court, it is right that they have become involved at this point.
How many chances should a TOC have to get something right before a passenger goes to London Travelwatch or Transport Focus? I think that is for each customer to decide. Personally, I believe the TOC should have a chance to deal with the matter and get it right (they arguably had that chance here when the OP responded to their first letter) but thereafter it really is up to the customer if they really want to write in again to have a second go directly with the TOC or involve another body. I personally have found it best to write back in and ask for a case to be looked at by a Manager but if I was being faced with possilble court action I'd really want to get a holt on it ASAP.
I also see that a customer is not required to raise something with the Customer Relations Department per say before they can decide that the TOC's reply is not good enough and they are going to TF/London TW. I'm glad London TW have applied common sense and understanding to the customer in this case!
Good luck! I hope they will be able to make enough representations on your behalf for this matter to be promptly resolved! Let us know on here how you get on
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Well, I am very pleased to say that this has now been resolved by London Travelwatch. They spoke with the Govia Thameslink prosecutions department and have managed to persuade them to drop everything and I won't have to pay a penny!
London Travelwatch managed to sort this all out in less than 24 hours and they were very efficient and an absolute pleasure to deal with. Impressive.
It should never have got this far with Govia Thameslink (or even started at all in fact), but all's well that ends well. Many thanks to everyone on here for your support and advice.
London Travelwatch managed to sort this all out in less than 24 hours and they were very efficient and an absolute pleasure to deal with. Impressive.
It should never have got this far with Govia Thameslink (or even started at all in fact), but all's well that ends well. Many thanks to everyone on here for your support and advice.
That is excellent news, thanks for letting us know.
I agree with you, they had no reasonable grounds to threaten action against you. If not for the strict liability nature of Byelaws offences I would have loved to see them try to take it to court.
Kite159
Veteran Member
Good news
A shame Govia didn't get their hands slapped if it ever went further, and will probably try and pull the same trick again to another less clued up passenger.
Now for the sake of everyone else who might forget their season ticket in similar circumstances, please don't let this drop until you've obtained satisfactory reassurances that the company has taken action to ensure this situation never arises again. You might also feel entitled to some recompense for the amount of your time this has taken up and the stress. I still feel this incident is serious enough for the Department for Transport to take a formal interest, as there seem to have been multiple failings and the root of the problem and/or the ultimate fix may lie with the Department.
gray1404
Established Member
I am delghted to hear it has been resolved now and they have dropped it. It is reassuring that London Travelwatch were so helpful too!
I do agree with the above quote though regarding taking this mattr further as a formal complaint, something London Travelwatch would be able to help you with in terms of raising the matter with Management and you should also involve the Department for Transport. I do think further questions need to be asked here as well as an award of possible compensation.
Surreytraveller
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Congratulations. But it just goes to prove that they are trying it on, and are relying on people worrying or too busy to pursue their cases to the correct conclusion. But well done to you for sticking to your guns. But I expect they were probably scared that you would have ve gone further and wanted to avoid the adverse publicity that would have involved.
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Tetchytyke
Veteran Member
London Travelwatch and Transport Focus staff have access to more senior people within the TOCs, and that is often enough to resolve things. Perhaps GoVia were trying it on, although I suspect it was probably more that the RPI was overzealous and GoVia didn't want to admit they were wrong. It happens.
I would definitely push now for some sort of acknowledgement by GoVia that this was unacceptable and some sort of recompense for your time and stress.
I would definitely push now for some sort of acknowledgement by GoVia that this was unacceptable and some sort of recompense for your time and stress.
I couldn't agree more. DfT ought to consider hard whether such a bunch of inept muppets should be let anywhere near running a public service...
Good news BUT... knowing what a shambles GoVia are I hope you are getting that in writing!
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gray1404
Established Member
Yet the totally correct thing to do in a situation like that in any form of business if to admit that an error is made and for them to give the oerzealous RPI refresher training to avoid a reoccurance.
PeterY
Established Member
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It's so good to read that OP had such a good outcome especially being honest and going to the excess fare window before attempting to go to the ticket barrier.
Sounds like the whole prosecution department could do with a refresher course.
I'm sure Govia are proud of them. A glowing example of the incompetence that runs through the organisation. They really don't give a toss about customers.
londonbridge
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Does that include the £4.20??
Other than seconding Wolfies advice that you get written confirmation that the matter is now closed, I'm glad it appears to have been settled.
HMS Ark Royal
Established Member
Glad it is sorted for you
My question was never answered though:- When you got to the Excess Fares desk, had you already purchased a ticket before the RPI intervened? I'm curious to know...
My question was never answered though:- When you got to the Excess Fares desk, had you already purchased a ticket before the RPI intervened? I'm curious to know...
No it had not actually been purchased. The guy behind the excess fares desk told me the solution was to simply pay a return fare from Penge West. I agreed and he was in the process of issuing it to me when the RPI then stepped in, stopped it being issued and demanded that I leave the excess fares queue and be dealt with my him. I initially refused as it was all being dealt with amicably and he didn't need to get involved, but he persisted and would not take no for an answer.
And no I have been told that I don't even have to pay the £4.20.
I am going to get it in writing from Govia that they will not be taking it further, following which I'm going to consider my options for bringing this to the attention of the DfT or anyone else who may be interested.
Glad it is all settled though it's upsetting that it had to take so much of your time and the potential worry on your mind for several weeks is not really acceptable.
I suppose there's one other good thing to come from this. Your suits will likely match much better from now on.
Rob
I suppose there's one other good thing to come from this. Your suits will likely match much better from now on.
Rob
StateOfPlay
Member
See this winds me up, I think you are fully within your rights to expect far better treatment from this train company, you are a season ticket holder and you are therefore one of their customers.
I know of a neighbour who deliberately avoids his fare and gets caught every now and then, and they treat him the same way they treated you!
I am really glad you were able to resolve this.
I know of a neighbour who deliberately avoids his fare and gets caught every now and then, and they treat him the same way they treated you!
I am really glad you were able to resolve this.
Indeed. And clearly it shouldn't have gone this far.
But unfortunately there is no instant method of telling the difference between a ticketless season ticket holder and a ticketless fare évader.
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