'Jihadi Jez' headline by Sky News is a disgrace

[HMS Ark Royal]

Where, exactly, have they said that?

On TV and in the papers. There was one serving army officer, I can not recall their name off hand, who was asked what they would do if Corbyn started to disarm the forces. The officer replied that they'd disobey and rebel, leading to the reporter asking if that meant a military coup of sorts, the officer replied in the affirmative.

Tellingly, there might be a legal way to remove him from power by having him arrested for causing the loss of morale in Her Majesty's Forces...

Wasn't it intimated by that rather odd Chief of General Staff on a Sunday morning political show, General Haig or something like that ...

I don't think it was Haig, but I know what you mean and yes it was him...

Lets not forget that a coup nearly happened in 1974

 

[Johnuk123]

.
Lets not forget that a coup nearly happened in 1974

Yes the famous Mayfair set.
That was when the army took over Heathrow as an exercise to see how easy it would be if they had to do it for real in a military coup.It was disguised as an IRA training exercise but Harold Wilsons senior aid later admitted it was nothing of the sort.
The funny thing is when the army rolled into Heathrow the Labour Govt. had no idea what was going on as they knew nothing about it.
For the last 8 months of his term as pm Wilson later admitted he had no idea what was going on with regards to security of the country.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Mayfair set?

No, I was actually meaning the show of force from the Army by posting a heck of a lot of equipment outside all the major interests in London - letting Wilson know it was time to go

 

[Johnuk123]

Mayfair set?

No, I was actually meaning the show of force from the Army by posting a heck of a lot of equipment outside all the major interests in London - letting Wilson know it was time to go

In 1974 there was a coup plot lead by people who called themselves the 'Mayfair set' these included James Goldsmith, Ross McWhirter, David Sterling of SAS fame, and a lot of others, including very senior MI5. The plan was to install Lord Mountbatten as leader, the group thought Britain was well on its way to becoming a communist country, with trade-unions out of control, etc.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

In 1974 there was a coup plot lead by people who called themselves the 'Mayfair set' these included James Goldsmith, Ross McWhirter, David Sterling of SAS fame, and a lot of others, including very senior MI5. The plan was to install Lord Mountbatten as leader, the group thought Britain was well on its way to becoming a communist country, with trade-unions out of control, etc.

Oh, I see... I didn't know they were called that as well - I've known them as GB75.

As I see it, there are two options

A) Arrest and detain Corbyn

B) Arrest and detain Corbyn and have the Queen disolve the government, rule by Royal Decree and call for new elections.

 

[NSEFAN]

In 1974 there was a coup plot lead by people who called themselves the 'Mayfair set' these included James Goldsmith, Ross McWhirter, David Sterling of SAS fame, and a lot of others, including very senior MI5. The plan was to install Lord Mountbatten as leader, the group thought Britain was well on its way to becoming a communist country, with trade-unions out of control, etc.

Fascinating. It seems like a world away from the situation of today, where "union" is a dirty word and zero-hours contracts are the future. And soon TTIP shall see EU working standards "harmonised" with those in the USA.

 

[WelshBluebird]

The Mirror of all papers is reporting Ex Culture Secretary Ben Bradshaw wrote: 'Please tell me it's not true Jeremy has said that faced with Kalashnikov wielding genocidal fascists our security forces should not shoot?'

Well lucky Corybn didn't say anything of the sort then.
The current behaviour from both the media and the PLP is totally disgusting. Corbyn was democratically elected leader of the party. Respect that and deal with it.

And in regards to the military talking about a coup, that is even worse. I agree it is not likely to happen but in a UK where Corbyn has been democratically elected leader of the country, how the hell can anyone think it is right and fair that the military go and take over? If you don't like what the government / PM is doing / saying then vote for someone else when you get the chance. We aren't a bloody military state!

Oh - and yes I support Corbyn. However I would be equally as disgusted if we were talking about the same for any leader.

 

[Johnuk123]

And in regards to the military talking about a coup, that is even worse. I agree it is not likely to happen but in a UK where Corbyn has been democratically elected leader of the country, how the hell can anyone think it is right and fair that the military go and take over? If you don't like what the government / PM is doing / saying then vote for someone else when you get the chance. We aren't a bloody military state!

Oh - and yes I support Corbyn. However I would be equally as disgusted if we were talking about the same for any leader.

If anybody was stupid enough to abolish the armed forces which is what Corbyn has said he'd like everybody to do then that's a game changer.You can't let a madman get rid of the armed forces and then after a few years vote Tory and reinstall them.
A military coup would be an absolute certainty like it would be in most countries if anybody was stupid enough to make themselves defenceless.
Plenty of well established democratic countries have had military coups or attempts at them they don't just happen in banana republics.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If anybody was stupid enough to abolish the armed forces which is what Corbyn has said he'd like everybody to do then that's a game changer.You can't let a madman get rid of the armed forces and then after a few years vote Tory and reinstall them.
A military coup would be an absolute certainty like it would be in most countries if anybody was stupid enough to make themselves defenceless.
Plenty of well established democratic countries have had military coups or attempts at them they don't just happen in banana republics.

Except I don't believe he has actually said that he would get rid of our armed forces.

What he has said is how great it would be if everyone in the world got rid of the armed forced. Obviously that isn't realistic and will not happen but can anyone actually argue against having a world where armed forced are not needed?

He did throw out the suggestion a while ago now of tax payers opting out of their money going towards the armed forced. A suggestion which I do think is total lunacy. Its actually worryingly close to the sometimes held right wing viewpoint of taxation: "I don't use it so why should I pay for it".

I don't agree with everything he says (just as even the most enthusiastic Tory supporter won't agree with everything Cameron says) but at least base your opinions on what he has actually said rather than what the media have told you he said.

 

[Oswyntail]

And this, gentlemen, is why we have a monarch. The loyalty of the armed forces is to the monarchy, as is the loyalty of Parliament, and you can bet all the family silver that Buck House would be working to find a sensible solution.

 

[Johnuk123]

I don't agree with everything he says (just as even the most enthusiastic Tory supporter won't agree with everything Cameron says) but at least base your opinions on what he has actually said rather than what the media have told you he said.

This is what he said which is more or less what I wrote.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if every politician around the world instead of taking pride in the size of their Armed Forces did what Costa Rica have done and abolished their Army, and took pride in the fact they don't have an Army.

The Corbyn row has today spilled over into the house of commons with labour members queuing up to ask soft questions to Cameron so he can taunt Corbyn with them.
As has just been said on the tv this is totally unprecedented and never been seen before and surely the start of the end of Corbyn and he'll only have himself to blame.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The Blairite PLP are showing their true colours in all this, it's utterly pathetic. If they don't like the democratically elected leader of their party they are free to climb off the gravy train at any time they want. Mind the door doesn't hit them on the way out.

Corbyn hasn't said he would stand down the armed forces, he hasn't said he wouldn't fight back, he's saying- rather astutely- that going bomb-for-bomb with ISIS hasn't worked in the last fifty years and isn't likely to work any time soon.

ISIS grew out of the Iraq war, they're a coalition of the deposed Ba'athists working alongside the remnants of al Qaeda using the war in Iraq to recruit as many bitter young men as they need. Bombing places into submission didn't work in Afghanistan- the Taleban are still alive and kicking- and it didn't work in Iraq. There's a word for people who keep doing the same thing yet expecting a different outcome.

I want rid of ISIS, everyone wants rid of ISIS, but drones ain't gonna cut it.

 

[infobleep]

What an absolutely disgusting headline. We've always know that Sky are somewhat biased politically but this is taking it to the next level - http://news.sky.com/story/1587369/jihadi-jez-under-fire-from-his-own-side

Should be serious action taken for this, especially in light of recent events.



Also taken a picture of the article in the expectation that it will be removed sooner or later

Your actually right. It got removed. Either that or moved, assuming your link is correct but then your not a journalist so why wouldn't it be!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Sky are answerable to Murdoch, and it is Morphing into his laughable FOX News model of rabid right news distortion.

The BBC is answerable to the citizens of the U.K., not whoever is in No 10 at the time.

Every time we have a Tory Govt the BBC is accused of bias, years ago it was that idiot Norman Tebbit screaming that it was stuffed with Trotskyite homosexuals ( his words, not mine). The BBC is there to challenge and ask awkward questions of ministers and those in power on our behalf, rather than to push a partisan agenda bankrolled by an octogenarian mogul.

Sky News are answerable to OfCom. End of I feel. OfCom are judge and jury.

Now if Sky News were a newspaper like the Sun I might agree with you as they are not subject to the judge and jury of OfCom.

I don't know whether I like Murdoc or not. I certainly don't like the way journalists when phone hacking everyone.

 

[Amberley54]

Plenty of well established democratic countries have had military coups or attempts at them they don't just happen in banana republics.

Could you give me an example of a coup that succeeded in a democrstic country in the past, say 40 years?

The only one I can recall where an established democracy with universal sufferage saw a 'successful' coup was Fiji.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

One of the TWO Vatican states was "overthrown"

 

[DarloRich]

some of you could really do with a lie down in a darkened room as you are clearly over stimulated!

The most likely "coup" will be within the Labour party!

 

[Johnuk123]

Could you give me an example of a coup that succeeded in a democrstic country in the past, say 40 years?

The only one I can recall where an established democracy with universal sufferage saw a 'successful' coup was Fiji.

Thailand last year.

 

[Trog]

The trouble is that he is giving the impression of being Jeremy Chamberlain. Defence spending is a bit like an insurance policy but it only works if people believe or at least worry that you will use it when the chips are down. Saying that you will not use something if attacked looks like weakness, and that sort of thing attracts predators.

 

[Johnuk123]

The trouble is that he is giving the impression of being Jeremy Chamberlain. Defence spending is a bit like an insurance policy but it only works if people believe or at least worry that you will use it when the chips are down. Saying that you will not use something if attacked looks like weakness, and that sort of thing attracts predators.

I think you mean Arthur Neville Chamberlain not Jeremy but what you say is true.

 

[asylumxl]

The level of sensationalism on this thread would put a tabloid newspaper to shame.

It seems to me some people have perhaps read quotes or heard soundbites from Corbyn without a single thought about their context.

My interpretation is that Corbyn would like a world without military and war. What sane person wouldn't want that? I don't think that means in any capacity that he believes a military is not necessary at this point in history.

As for NATO membership, if Putin were to launch a nuclear ICBM we would simply be a diversion while the Americans decided how to respond.

 

[Amberley54]

Thailand last year.

Err, I beg to differ. Thailand is hardly an example of a stable elected democracy

Thailand - absolute monarchy until 1932. military dictatorship until 1973.
Since then a succession of unstable elected govts criticised by UN for endemic corruption and electoral fraud, with military coups in 2006 and 2014
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

One of the TWO Vatican states was "overthrown"

Since when was the Vatican an elected democracy? Pope picked by a College of cardinals that represent , oh, about 0.01 % of the Holy See's resident adults.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Since when was the Vatican an elected democracy? Pope picked by a College of cardinals that represent , oh, about 0.01 % of the Holy See's resident adults.

A most interesting observation. To draw a comparison to that statistic, what percentage of the Labour Party registered membership is that of the National Executive Committee?

 

[DarloRich]

A most interesting observation. To draw a comparison to that statistic, what percentage of the Labour Party registered membership is that of the National Executive Committee?

100% Paul - you must be a member of the Labour party to be nominated

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

100% Paul - you must be a member of the Labour party to be nominated

So in other words, quite similar in membership entitlement to the College of Cardinals....

 

[tony_mac]

Cardinals are appointed, the NEC members are elected.
But, I assume you knew that already...

 

[Jonny]

Could you give me an example of a coup that succeeded in a democrstic country in the past, say 40 years?

The only one I can recall where an established democracy with universal sufferage saw a 'successful' coup was Fiji.

Apart from one previously mentioned, in recent yesrs, Egypt - one revolution and then a proper coup to get rid of an Islamist government and bring about something vaguely resembling democracy.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Cardinals are appointed, the NEC members are elected.
But, I assume you knew that already...

Indeed I did so, but still hold the view that the College of Cardinals have a far better colour co-ordinated clothing scheme than that is usually seen in group meetings of the NEC..

 

[Gathursty]

I think, as ever, Jeremy Corbyn can do with a better PR advisor as he is essentially correct about Syria and I'll tell you why.

Has David Cameron yet completed the following sentence: 'After we have bombed Syria, ....'

Without an idea of what to do afterwards, you will continue the conveyor belt of disaffected youths who have seen their families almost destroyed or lost in the chaos of war, no childhood and adolescence where they can learn, make friends, get to know women, etc... who will most likely turn to people fighting those dropping the bombs in spite of the bombs being well-intended. ISIS also have destroyed and caused chaos but sadly before ISIS came the UK/US stay in Iraq which have set the ball rolling.

It all comes down to planning the next step after warfare. Who has the best plan to rebuild hope and infrastructure in Syria?

I do think it is concerning that the Tory Party aren't also debating the issue like the Labour Party is. It is fine and more honest to admit there are different views. Tory Party MPs shouldn't be pressed by the whips and as there is an investigation over bullying leading to a sucide in the grassroots division, I think the Tories may worryingly* have a more well-thumbed copy of the Little Red Book in the library.

*This is hyperbole.

 

[miami]

I'm still confused about what bombing Syria will accomplish other than more refugees.

If we wanted to punish the France attackers why not bomb Belgium?

Another left wing article: http://new.spectator.co.uk/2015/11/sorry-but-just-bombing-isis-in-syria-wont-help-anyone/

...Soon Cameron will ask parliament to share his ‘firm conviction’ that bombing Raqqa, the Syrian headquarters of the Islamic State, has become ‘imperative’. At first glance, the case for doing so appears compelling. The atrocities in Paris certainly warrant a response. With François Hollande having declared his intention to ‘lead a war which will be pitiless’, other western nations can hardly sit on their hands; as with 9/11 and 7/7, the moment calls for solidarity. And since the RAF is already targeting Isis in Iraq, why not extend the operation to the other side of the elided border? What could be easier?

But it’s harder to establish what expanding the existing bombing campaign further will actually accomplish. Is Britain engaged in what deserves to be called a war, a term that implies politically purposeful military action? Or is the Cameron government — and the Hollande government as well — merely venting its anger, and thereby concealing the absence of clear-eyed political purpose?...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I'm still confused about what bombing Syria will accomplish other than more refugees. If we wanted to punish the France attackers why not bomb Belgium?

I am sure that there are more reasons, other than just the atrocity in France, to be considered.

Bombing Belgium...where did that idea surface from?