'Jihadi Jez' headline by Sky News is a disgrace

[DarloRich]

Firstly: The headline is wrong and should not have been published but is sadly typical of the Sun

Secondly: I understand entirely (and in principle agree) with the stance taken by Corbyn. We should not be undertaking extra judicial killings. It is wrong and surrenders any pretence we may have to hold the moral high ground or claims to civility. At worst it makes us as bad at the people we are fighting against.

These people should be subject to the law. As a murderer he should be arrested, tried, convicted and left to rot in prison.

Thirdly: However, being pragmatic, the chances of capturing this individual is almost nil. Even if it were possible to take him alive and spirit him out of a war zone to UK territory the cost to our soldiers could be large. Is it worth paying?

I have absolutely no problem with this approach, that is using a drone fired missile to remove this individual, hypocritical as that may be. In the real world what choice is there?

 

[tony_mac]

These people should be subject to the law. As a murderer he should be arrested, tried, convicted and left to rot in prison.

I guess you must be a terrorist too...

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

The fact of the matter is that the little so and so has been taken out with the minimum of fuss and collateral damage. if the rumours are true, he died in the British manner - waiting to turn onto a roundabout!

What I find strange is that ISIS is not doing its normal "We shall revenge" threats because there have been a great many rumours that Jihadi John was an embarrassment to the cause, was under suspicion and had been thought to be getting ready to switch his alliance to another radical group.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What I find strange is that ISIS is not doing its normal "We shall revenge" threats because there have been a great many rumours that Jihadi John was an embarrassment to the cause, was under suspicion and had been thought to be getting ready to switch his alliance to another radical group.

I wonder how many Muslims are given the name "John"...:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

I wonder how many Muslims are given the name "John"...:roll:

About as many as are named 'Jez' I would guess

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wonder how many Muslims are given the name "John"...:roll:

It was because, according to reports, he was with three others and the four of them listened to Beatles music


As it happens, I know two Muslims who are both named John as well as one called Mavis

 

[WelshBluebird]

Looks like they have taken down the news article anyway.
The link now goes to a 404 page not found.

 

[muddythefish]

Sky News are probably more impartial than the BBC in reality, but because the BBC is widely seen as impartial, when they are at least as far left as the Guardian in their views, distorts a lot of peoples ideas as to what a politically neutral broadcaster would be saying.

Urban mythology.

Let's have a look at the Beeb's political heavyweight commentators. Former top dog Nick Robinson was head of the Conservative Union at Oxford, Andrew Neill is a former Tory party activist and deputy political Jeremy Lansdale went to Eton, so is unlikely to be a raging socialist. I'm not sure about Laura Kuennesberg (sp?) or Andrew Marr but the above suggests more than hint of political bias to the eight, especially when I am told on good authority that the BBC news conference each morning takes its agenda from the Daily Mail.

 

[Oswyntail]

....
Secondly: I understand entirely (and in principle agree) with the stance taken by Corbyn. We should not be undertaking extra judicial killings. It is wrong and surrenders any pretence we may have to hold the moral high ground or claims to civility. At worst it makes us as bad at the people we are fighting against.

These people should be subject to the law. As a murderer he should be arrested, tried, convicted and left to rot in prison. ....

That does surely depend on whether we regard military intervention of this sort to be covered by rules of engagement. It could even be argued that, as he generally appeared in the "terrorists' uniform" he had declared himself a combatant. It is yet another issue muddied by the changing nature of modern warfare.

 

[DarloRich]

That does surely depend on whether we regard military intervention of this sort to be covered by rules of engagement. It could even be argued that, as he generally appeared in the "terrorists' uniform" he had declared himself a combatant. It is yet another issue muddied by the changing nature of modern warfare.

Do you not need a state to be a combatant under the terms of the Geneva Convention? If we don't recognise the lunatics as an official government ( and we shouldn't for obvious reasons) can any fighters (?) be said to belong to a "state"?

In any event I have no problem in blowing up these people. I should be more upset by thinking like that but I really am not as there doesn't seem to be an practical alternative.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Do you not need a state to be a combatant under the terms of the Geneva Convention? If we don't recognise the lunatics as an official government ( and we shouldn't for obvious reasons) can any fighters (?) be said to belong to a "state"?

In any event I have no problem in blowing up these people. I should be more upset by thinking like that but I really am not as there doesn't seem to be an practical alternative.

Vichy France spring to mind

 

[DarloRich]

Vichy France spring to mind

in what way?

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

In that it was not thought of as a state and yet those members of men under arms were taken as POWs - and treated under the GC

 

[Bayum]

I notice people are complaining about a headline referring to Corbyn, but no one seems outraged at the HIV stories...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I notice people are complaining about a headline referring to Corbyn, but no one seems outraged at the HIV stories...

Let a new thread be created to allow the HIV stories to be discussed.

 

[Johnuk123]

I notice people are complaining about a headline referring to Corbyn, but no one seems outraged at the HIV stories...

If you find that important why not start a thread on it.

 

[Oswyntail]

Do you not need a state to be a combatant under the terms of the Geneva Convention? If we don't recognise the lunatics as an official government ( and we shouldn't for obvious reasons) can any fighters (?) be said to belong to a "state"? ....

Precisely. The world seems to have moved away from the various conventions to come up with a de facto definition of terrorist groups as combatants - Afghanistan, Chechnya, Balkans, Sri Lanka, Colombia, you name them - but these "rules" are still being made up on the hoof. It is little wonder that inexperienced people like Corbyn are floundering.

 

[DarloRich]

Precisely. The world seems to have moved away from the various conventions to come up with a de facto definition of terrorist groups as combatants - Afghanistan, Chechnya, Balkans, Sri Lanka, Colombia, you name them - but these "rules" are still being made up on the hoof. It is little wonder that inexperienced people like Corbyn are floundering.

I agree, although I wonder what practical steps we could do to bring these people to justice, regardless of label. I also wonder if world leaders are floundering generally in the face of this threat.

Much as i am against summery justice it seems fitting here - contradictions and all!


PS I think much has been made of Corbyns comment about political negotiations. I HOPE he means trying to work with other leaders in the region to cut off the supply of arms and cash to IS and build strong, sustainable, alternatives to terror rather than do a deal with IS. Reading any of their warped propaganda shows this isn't possible.

That must be worth trying at the same time as bombing their infrastructure to degrade their ability to attack.

 

[Oswyntail]

... I HOPE he means trying to work with other leaders in the region to cut off the supply of arms and cash to IS and build strong, sustainable, alternatives to terror rather than do a deal with IS. .....

The region is a mess, and has been since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire (OK, before that, but the Ottomans kept a lid on things). We naturally think more of British involvement, especially in Palestine, but we often forget that France demanded Syria and Lebanon in its reward package. The whole of the empire was carved up with maps and rulers, rather than looking at the peoples involved.
One of the chief conflicting forces is within Islam itself, the Sunni/Shia split (with many nuances). This is not only reflected in the forces on the ground, but among the leaders - the richer nations are backing their "own" side covertly, often while publicly saying the "right thing". What is really needed is for all the countries from the old empire (including North Africa - and Israel) to sit down in conference, led by themselves, to discuss a post-Ottoman settlement with all options on the table. Perhaps the best outcome might be a reconstituted Empire, run along federal lines!
And pigs might fly.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Perhaps the best outcome might be a reconstituted Empire, run along federal lines!
And pigs might fly.

Also known as the USA

 

[Johnuk123]

Corbyn is surely toast.

The Mirror of all papers is reporting

One shadow minister at the Westminster gathering said: “He doesn’t answer anything. He got roasted, he’s a f****** disgrace.”

Ex Culture Secretary Ben Bradshaw wrote: 'Please tell me it's not true Jeremy has said that faced with Kalashnikov wielding genocidal fascists our security forces should not shoot?'
At the end of his speech he wasn't clapped even by his own supporters which apparently has never occurred.
Doesn't matter how many fans he might have when your own mp's think you're an idiot you've had it pure and simple.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

I wonder what would happen, god forbid, if he made it into power?

We would have a CO PM that would have to hand write Letters of Last Resort - that ought to be fun

 

[Johnuk123]

I wonder what would happen, god forbid, if he made it into power?

We would have a CO PM that would have to hand write Letters of Last Resort - that ought to be fun

Don't worry although we have a few people who would vote for him the general public don't like our security being left in the hands of a pacifist and a very dangerous one to boot.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

Indeed, however it would be interesting to ask him if he had written them!

It is my understanding that, from what I have been told, at least one missile in the sub at sea is always programmed for Moscow.

Knowing Corbyn, he'll order the submarines to surface and surrender

 

[Johnuk123]

Indeed, however it would be interesting to ask him if he had written them!

It is my understanding that, from what I have been told, at least one missile in the sub at sea is always programmed for Moscow.

Knowing Corbyn, he'll order the submarines to surface and surrender

If he ever got into power no submarines would be in service along with the rest of the navy, army and airforce as he has said he would like us to be like Costa Rica and be totally unarmed.

 

[HMS Ark Royal]

At which point, the General Staff have placed on record their intention to remove Corbyn from power

 

[Johnuk123]

At which point, the General Staff have placed on record their intention to remove Corbyn from power

A military coup sounds a bit third world but if we got to the stage of having a bloke like him an extreme pacifist and supporter of various terrorist organisations running the place it would have massive public support.
I was pleased to read that from a serving General and be in no doubt it's not an idle threat.
Keeping your own citizens safe is the first duty of a Govt. to abolish the armed forces would never be allowed to happen.

 

[ainsworth74]

At which point, the General Staff have placed on record their intention to remove Corbyn from power

Where, exactly, have they said that?

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

Where, exactly, have they said that?

Wasn't it intimated by that rather odd Chief of General Staff on a sunday morning political show, General Haig or something like that ...

 

[Johnuk123]

Where, exactly, have they said that?

Blimey you haven't been keeping up with the news.

A government headed by opposition leader Jeremy Corbyn could face "a mutiny" from the British Army if he tries to downgrade it or pull out of NATO, a senior serving general told The Sunday Times.

https://www.rt.com/uk/316039-british-army-coup-corbyn/

If it ever came to it one thing is certain Corbyn wouldn't be able to do a thing about it because the Police would never go against the military.
It's all talk though because thankfully Mr Blobby has more chance of leading a Govt.