Hammersmith and City changing to District Line

[96tommy]

I was onboard a Hammermsmith and City line from King's Cross St Pancras to Mile End when at Stepney Green, it suddenly turned into a District Line train to Upminster. I was initially suspicious as at King's Cross the platform screens showed it as going to Upminster but when it arrived the onboard announcements said "H&C to Barking". At Stepney Green the announcements turned to "District Line to Upminster". Is this common? Not come across it during my many runs on the line since I moved to London in September

 

[Dstock7080]

I was onboard a Hammermsmith and City line from King's Cross St Pancras to Mile End when at Stepney Green, it suddenly turned into a District Line train to Upminster. I was initially suspicious as at King's Cross the platform screens showed it as going to Upminster but when it arrived the onboard announcements said "H&C to Barking". At Stepney Green the announcements turned to "District Line to Upminster". Is this common? Not come across it during my many runs on the line since I moved to London in September

As from 17 May new Working Timetable will see the unusual passenger workings of S7 Stock are increased with this timetable change:
- Hammersmith H&C – outer rail Circle via Egware Road, King’s Cross, Aldgate, Victoria and Edgware Road – Upminster
- Hammersmith H&C – Upminster
- Upminster – Hammersmith H&C
- King’s Cross – South Kensington
- Barking – inner rail Circle via King’s Cross, Edgware Road, Victoria – Aldgate – Hammersmith H&C
- Barking – outer rail Circle via Victoria to Edgware Road
- Ealing Broadway – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – outer rail Circle via Edgware Road, King’s Cross – Aldgate, Victoria – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – Edgware Road – King’s Cross – Barking
- High Street Kensington – Edgware Road – King’s Cross – Barking
- Edgware Road – Ealing Broadway
- Edgware Road – inner rail Circle via Victoria, Aldgate, King’s Cross, Edgware Road – Ealing Broadway
- Moorgate – Ealing Broadway
- South Kensington – Baker Street
- Edgware Road – inner rail Circle via Victoria – Barking

 

[Busaholic]

As from 17 May new Working Timetable will see the unusual passenger workings of S7 Stock are increased with this timetable change:
- Hammersmith H&C – outer rail Circle via Egware Road, King’s Cross, Aldgate, Victoria and Edgware Road – Upminster
- Hammersmith H&C – Upminster
- Upminster – Hammersmith H&C
- King’s Cross – South Kensington
- Barking – inner rail Circle via King’s Cross, Edgware Road, Victoria – Aldgate – Hammersmith H&C
- Barking – outer rail Circle via Victoria to Edgware Road
- Ealing Broadway – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – outer rail Circle via Edgware Road, King’s Cross – Aldgate, Victoria – Edgware Road
- Acton Town – Edgware Road – King’s Cross – Barking
- High Street Kensington – Edgware Road – King’s Cross – Barking
- Edgware Road – Ealing Broadway
- Edgware Road – inner rail Circle via Victoria, Aldgate, King’s Cross, Edgware Road – Ealing Broadway
- Moorgate – Ealing Broadway
- South Kensington – Baker Street
- Edgware Road – inner rail Circle via Victoria – Barking

Hairy!
Some of those movements will make for interesting destination blinds/ station announcements/ platform descriptors, with changes en route.

How will Oyster cope with the passenger from Westbourne Park to Upminster, say, who travels round the complete old Circle Line and then, having looped the loop, traverses the northern bit all over again. One-day travelcards may see a resurgence in popularity!

 

[jopsuk]

Oyster doesn't care how you get somewhere, as long as you do it within the maximum journey time

 

[yorkie]

How will Oyster cope with the passenger from Westbourne Park to Upminster, say, who travels round the complete old Circle Line and then, having looped the loop, traverses the northern bit all over again. One-day travelcards may see a resurgence in popularity!

I think this would be "across 7 zones" (Zone 2 to 6 via 1) so, on a weekday, you have 130mins (source: Maximum journey times) to do that journey. If 130mins was exceeded it would be charged as two incomplete journeys.

 

[Mikey C]

I found when using S7s that the destinations were occasionally changed to compensate for delays elsewhere.
For example, a Circle Line to Edgware Road (from Victoria/HSK) might once it arrives at Edgware Road turn into a eastbound H&C or Circle Line train, thus unbreaking the Inner Circle, which is always a bonus for users fed up of having to change trains to get to Baker Street!

 

[Daniel]

How will Oyster cope with the passenger from Westbourne Park to Upminster, say, who travels round the complete old Circle Line and then, having looped the loop, traverses the northern bit all over again. One-day travelcards may see a resurgence in popularity!

As Yorkie states, you'd get an incomplete journey - but no-one should make this mistake, as these services change their destination throughout their journey. On its way up from Hammersmith it won't show Upminster, it'll show Circle via Kings Cross / Aldgate.

 

[Busaholic]

As Yorkie states, you'd get an incomplete journey - but no-one should make this mistake, as these services change their destination throughout their journey. On its way up from Hammersmith it won't show Upminster, it'll show Circle via Kings Cross / Aldgate.

I was being slightly facetious: it could well be that only an 'enthusiast' in the know, with more time on their hands than they know what to do with, and with no bladder demands (so that rules me out) would make that particular journey.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Oyster doesn't care how you get somewhere, as long as you do it within the maximum journey time

Oh, but Oyster very much does care how you got there. If you could get from Morden to High Barnet, say, without touching Zone 1 and doing it within 130 minutes then it should cost substantially less than just hopping on a Northern Line train, but proving how you did it would be more difficult. Take Canary Wharf to Richmond - using Overground from Canada Water or Stratford, on a south or north axis, would save you pounds compared to using Jubilee or District through the centre. That's the beauty of travelcards - no need to worry about any of that.

 

[bluegoblin7]

That's the beauty of travelcards - no need to worry about any of that.

True, but you're already paying a premium for that privilege. For those on a budget and without time constraints, the fact that Oyster offers a cheaper route is extremely useful - the convenience of the option often outweighs having to make additional touches.

I expect the Travelcard will remain available for a long time yet, but for the vast majority Oyster (and, indeed, Contactless) now provides the most practical and most flexible means of travelling around. Increasingly this is also including enthusiasts who are factoring in the maximum journey times to their travels - the information is out there, and it's not hard to touch out and back in again.

 

[MikeWh]

Oh, but Oyster very much does care how you got there. If you could get from Morden to High Barnet, say, without touching Zone 1 and doing it within 130 minutes then it should cost substantially less than just hopping on a Northern Line train, but proving how you did it would be more difficult. Take Canary Wharf to Richmond - using Overground from Canada Water or Stratford, on a south or north axis, would save you pounds compared to using Jubilee or District through the centre. That's the beauty of travelcards - no need to worry about any of that.

You're talking at cross purposes. Yes, where there are different defined routes then it matters which via points are touched, but outside of that it's only the MJT which matters. You could travel from Bexley to Crayford via Dartford without touching at Dartford and still be charged only the basic journey as long as it was completed within 70 minutes.

 

[Antman]

True, but you're already paying a premium for that privilege. For those on a budget and without time constraints, the fact that Oyster offers a cheaper route is extremely useful - the convenience of the option often outweighs having to make additional touches.

I expect the Travelcard will remain available for a long time yet, but for the vast majority Oyster (and, indeed, Contactless) now provides the most practical and most flexible means of travelling around. Increasingly this is also including enthusiasts who are factoring in the maximum journey times to their travels - the information is out there, and it's not hard to touch out and back in again.

It depends where you're travelling from and whether you're using any sort of railcard to buy the Travelcard

 

[rebmcr]

If you could get from Morden to High Barnet, say, without touching Zone 1 and doing it within 130 minutes then it should cost substantially less than just hopping on a Northern Line train, but proving how you did it would be more difficult.

There are pink 'intermediate change' Oyster readers on the platforms of strategic Z2 stations in order to prove this.

 

[Mikey C]

There are pink 'intermediate change' Oyster readers on the platforms of strategic Z2 stations in order to prove this.

The time limit is still relevant though. I once got charged extra due to it, even after using the pink readers.

It got quickly reversed afterwards though

 

[317 forever]

I have seen S7 trains having line diagrams for the Circle, H&C and District lines. This makes it easy not only to assign any unit to any line, but also to "change" line by being extended beyond Edgware Road or Barking as indicated above.

 

[fairysdad]

I have seen S7 trains having line diagrams for the Circle, H&C and District lines. This makes it easy not only to assign any unit to any line, but also to "change" line by being extended beyond Edgware Road or Barking as indicated above.

All S7s will have line diagrams for the three lines (well, two-and-a-half lines if you count the fact that the Circle and the H&C share diagrams - double-meaning intended!).

 

[moogal]

I found when using S7s that the destinations were occasionally changed to compensate for delays elsewhere.
For example, a Circle Line to Edgware Road (from Victoria/HSK) might once it arrives at Edgware Road turn into a eastbound H&C or Circle Line train, thus unbreaking the Inner Circle, which is always a bonus for users fed up of having to change trains to get to Baker Street!

Edgware Road seems a popular point to change destinations. Several times now I've been on a westbound H&C heading towards Hammersmith which has got to Edgware Road and become an inner rail Circle towards Victoria, which is rather annoying.

 

[Mikey C]

Edgware Road seems a popular point to change destinations. Several times now I've been on a westbound H&C heading towards Hammersmith which has got to Edgware Road and become an inner rail Circle towards Victoria, which is rather annoying.

I imagine they swap drivers there so that the driver is going to the correct destination (i.e. where he is rostered to go to) even if the train was originally meant to go somewhere different!

 

[Daniel]

It's more because it's a junction, crew relief point, and has a signal box. That means the signaller is able to fairly easily reform the service to help return it to right time at that point - but trains only appear on the Edgware Road diagram when leaving the previous stations, which is why reforms tend to be very short notice. Reforms are occasionally done further back, but if so that'd be done by the Service Controller - and rather than looking at trains in that specific area, he or she will be looking at the entire Metropolitan line, plus the H&C west of Aldgate East, and the Circle North of HSK (inc Hammersmith) - so it's often better organised by the signaller.

 

[Busaholic]

It's more because it's a junction, crew relief point, and has a signal box. That means the signaller is able to fairly easily reform the service to help return it to right time at that point - but trains only appear on the Edgware Road diagram when leaving the previous stations, which is why reforms tend to be very short notice. Reforms are occasionally done further back, but if so that'd be done by the Service Controller - and rather than looking at trains in that specific area, he or she will be looking at the entire Metropolitan line, plus the H&C west of Aldgate East, and the Circle North of HSK (inc Hammersmith) - so it's often better organised by the signaller.

It might be an inconvenience for some passengers, but mostly of the slight variety, for a destination to be altered while in service, but such operational flexibility must, in the end, be of benefit to a greater number. That's the main reason why I've argued on this forum for the Northern Line to continue as a single entity post-Battersea extension rather than be split into two lines, though I've noticed a signal lack of support!