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[387star]

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[Domh245]

I think on almost any train running into London, there will be a no-hold policy. Tracks are so congested in the London area that holding for 5 minutes will almost guarantee missing their path and trying to be shoe-horned into a subsequent path.

 

[NSEFAN]

Looking at SWT's timetable, it appears that Salisbury's official connection time is 5 minutes. To me this doesn't seem like quite enough if you arrive on platform 2 or 3 and have to cross to platform 6, especially if you don't know where you're going.

In the case of trains to Exeter, the single line sections further towards the south west may well be a problem, especially on weekdays when a full timetable is running.

 

[thenorthern]

I don't think thats a privatisation issue I think its just an issue with connections as a whole.

At some stations which are common interchanges such as Manchester Piccadilly (platforms 12 and 14), Stoke-on-Trent, Wakefield Westgate and Tamworth is is impossible to hold a connection for a late running train blocking up the line would cause too much disruption.

 

[crehld]

This happened to me on Friday. The 0556 Hellifield to Lancaster was 8 mins late into Lancaster. Several of us (at least 8) had a simple cross platform transfer to the 0658 to Euston via Birmingham which we would miss due to the delay. Long before we arrived the guard had made some calls and arranged for the 0658 to be held. Platform staff at Lancaster confirmed they were aware of the request but ignored as per Virgin's policy.

That train only required holding for 2 mins. Because it was not what was initially a minor 8 minute delay for several passengers turned into a delay of over one hour.

(Incidentally the 0658 arrived into Preston 2 mins early)

 

[swt_passenger]

Is this simply because it's a different company or due to path constraints on the west of England

The latter, I expect. Down trains will have to reach Tisbury loop on time to pass the next up train that sits there for a few minutes, or it will be delayed. It's single track as soon as the routes diverge at Wilton, don't forget.

 

[6Gman]

This happened to me on Friday. The 0556 Hellifield to Lancaster was 8 mins late into Lancaster. Several of us (at least 8) had a simple cross platform transfer to the 0658 to Euston via Birmingham which we would miss due to the delay. Long before we arrived the guard had made some calls and arranged for the 0658 to be held. Platform staff at Lancaster confirmed they were aware of the request but ignored as per Virgin's policy.

That train only required holding for 2 mins. Because it was not what was initially a minor 8 minute delay for several passengers turned into a delay of over one hour.

(Incidentally the 0658 arrived into Preston 2 mins early)

Another example of this at Crewe on Saturday. Shuttle from Chester was delayed (Conductor delayed by late running inward service). 6 or 7 late out of Chester. As we walked up Platform 9/6 at Crewe the Euston was arriving on 5, but I don't think it was held.

 

[bramling]

I often tell passengers on gwr pompey to cardiff sorry their connection at salisbury will not be held for the xx47 departure to Exeter as south west trains have a no hold policy

Is this simply because it's a different company or due to path constraints on the west of England

Shame it is such a tight connection of five minutes over another platform as well

A held connection can mean another connection missed further along the journey.

I don't think it's to do with privatisation, more than holding a train delays everyone else on that train, and risks disrupting the timetable. With many lines now operating a more frequent service than in the past, loss of path is a bigger issue than in BR days.

Having said that, I tend to think branch trains should be held where possible - although again this isn't always possible as tight turnround times can mean the branch train would then be late all day with perhaps a trip having to be missed to get back on time.

 

[Mag_seven]

That train only required holding for 2 mins.

Where do you draw the line? 2 mins, 3 mins, 4 mins? At least with Virgin you know where you stand - 0 mins.

Because it was not what was initially a minor 8 minute delay for several passengers turned into a delay of over one hour.

For which the passengers concerned can claim compensation.

 

[eisenach]

It happens to my wife all the time at Newport when changing from a FGW train from Reading to a ATW Wales to Leominster.
At least she gets to wave to the ATW train as it goes past whilst she sits in the delayed FGW stationary outside Newport.

 

[sheff1]

At least with Virgin you know where you stand - 0 mins.

Awesome.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Well if they made it a part of the next franchise that the West of England line was to have a substantial amount of the single line sections between Sarum and Yeovil redoubled, then you might get some where, but if a train is late getting to a crossing point then the delays soon mushroom out of all proportion.

We already have enough problems with West of England line trains running late and causing congestion between Basingstoke and London, especially as they call at Clapham Junction and the following trains don't. So we don't need any delays on this route.

 

[185143]

What is EMT's hold policy?

 

[Bletchleyite]

Where do you draw the line? 2 mins, 3 mins, 4 mins? At least with Virgin you know where you stand

On the platform watching the tail lights head into the distance

VTEC don't have a no-hold policy, I've seen the last southbound from Edinburgh held for a connection from Inverness.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Another example of this at Crewe on Saturday. Shuttle from Chester was delayed (Conductor delayed by late running inward service). 6 or 7 late out of Chester. As we walked up Platform 9/6 at Crewe the Euston was arriving on 5, but I don't think it was held.

There's not an awful lot of sense in holding trains where there is such a frequent service. If it was the last one it would arguably make sense. Though if it was the last train on a relatively short distance run, it may still be best not to hold and just provide taxis.

 

[Taunton]

I see the GWR Portsmouth-Cardiff is scheduled into Salisbury just 3 minutes before the SWT Waterloo-Exeter, on a section from Laverstock Junction which probably has a 3 minute headway. A sensible (?) bit of scheduling for the two hourly services through Salisbury, but I digress. I presume if the Portsmouth is more than a minute or so down it is held to avoid SWT sticking it on GWR financially for the delay. SWT have a 5 minute stop at Salisbury, so if the GWR train waits to follow it in, and passengers need to use the subway to connect, that sets everything up for SWT setting off exactly as everyone emerges onto the platform, just like the opening scene in "Monsieur Hulot's Holiday".

https://vimeo.com/19873779

(01.35 onwards)

The funny thing is that the Exeter must not be delayed by a second, but the incoming Portsmouth has no such operating qualms about having been delayed along the way by any manner of issues, generally of the railway's own making. Quite why there is this constant issue at connecting points, that the incoming can readily be delayed by 1,001 issues along the line, but the onward connection must not be delayed by a moment, is not apparent.

 

[yorkie]

That train only required holding for 2 mins. Because it was not what was initially a minor 8 minute delay for several passengers turned into a delay of over one hour.

This is because delays to people don't matter; only delays to trains matter.

Where do you draw the line? 2 mins, 3 mins, 4 mins? At least with Virgin you know where you stand - 0 mins.

Some services do actually have sensible limits on where you draw the line. GWR has a long tradition of being sensible in Cornwall, for example.

 

[Helvellyn]

VTEC don't have a no-hold policy, I've seen the last southbound from Edinburgh held for a connection from Inverness.

Last train of the day is slightly different.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Last train of the day is slightly different.

It is the one with the strongest argument in favour of holding it, but a policy of "we will hold the last train" is not a "no-hold policy".

 

[WatcherZero]

Oxenholme trains are often held for the lake district connection.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are also holds that are done for operational reasons but also benefit passengers - for example, it's unusual for a Barrow local to leave Lancaster ahead of a delayed VT, because it'll get in the way and delay the VT further as the Pacer or 153 dawdles and bounces its way up to Carnforth. Similarly, the 1816 from Euston has a very solid connection into the Southern service and the 1805 from Euston at Leighton Buzzard, as to let those ahead will delay the fast further, so they are always held at Ledburn for the fast to go in front.

 

[Quakkerillo]

But holding is even refused in much easier conditions, not includings paths to/from London.

This summer, FTP refused to hold their Carnforth-Barrow train by 4 minutes, so that my delayed NT train from Leeds could connect (signalling delays near Long Preston). And there was no other path around that time, with which the FTP would've been causing an issue, so I really can't understand why waiting would've been that difficult.

Luckily, en-route to Lancaster, the FTP also got 12 minutes delay, so I was able to get on anyway, so I didn't miss out on the Loco service from Barrow to Carlisle.

 

[Deepgreen]

Where do you draw the line? 2 mins, 3 mins, 4 mins? At least with Virgin you know where you stand - 0 mins.



For which the passengers concerned can claim compensation.

Oh, that's alright, then. It must be more than adequate compensation for missing a job interview, a flight, etc., to know that one can at least reclaim the portion of fare that is applicable!

 

[Starmill]

For which the passengers concerned can claim compensation.

Only if 60 mins late or more, and then only the minimum entitled and only if within Northern's control.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Only if 60 mins late or more, and then only the minimum entitled and only if within Northern's control.

Do Northern not operate non-fault Delay Repay?

 

[Starmill]

Norther don't operate Delay Repay at all, and just compensate in line with the NRCoC.

 

[fairysdad]

I often tell passengers on gwr pompey to cardiff sorry their connection at salisbury will not be held for the xx47 departure to Exeter as south west trains have a no hold policy

Is this simply because it's a different company or due to path constraints on the west of England

Shame it is such a tight connection of five minutes over another platform as well

Seems like SWT have a all-take-and-no-give relationship with GWR then, as I've known GWR (well, still FGW at the time) hold trains to Barny and Exmouth for the ex-Waterloo to arrive. (Grandfather rights from LSWR days maybe? )

 

[RichmondCommu]

What is EMT's hold policy?

They've always said that they won't hold the last train of the day up the Matlock branch if a EMT service from London is delayed. Whilst this is frustrating the thing is even after 22.00 the MML is still busy between Derby and Ambergate Junction and so I imagine its difficult to find room for a delayed service in between all the other services.

 

[gray1404]

Do Northern not operate non-fault Delay Repay?

Am hoping that Northern, from next year with the new franchise, will be forced to operate Delay Repay.

 

[ooo]

I see the GWR Portsmouth-Cardiff is scheduled into Salisbury just 3 minutes before the SWT Waterloo-Exeter, on a section from Laverstock Junction which probably has a 3 minute headway. A sensible (?) bit of scheduling for the two hourly services through Salisbury, but I digress. I presume if the Portsmouth is more than a minute or so down it is held to avoid SWT sticking it on GWR financially for the delay. SWT have a 5 minute stop at Salisbury, so if the GWR train waits to follow it in, and passengers need to use the subway to connect, that sets everything up for SWT setting off exactly as everyone emerges onto the platform, just like the opening scene in "Monsieur Hulot's Holiday".

https://vimeo.com/19873779

(01.35 onwards)

The funny thing is that the Exeter must not be delayed by a second, but the incoming Portsmouth has no such operating qualms about having been delayed along the way by any manner of issues, generally of the railway's own making. Quite why there is this constant issue at connecting points, that the incoming can readily be delayed by 1,001 issues along the line, but the onward connection must not be delayed by a moment, is not apparent.

That Film is well worth watching.

 

[crehld]

For which the passengers concerned can claim compensation.

You're missing the point here. Of course we could claim delay repay. But by not cooperating effectively the railway industry has cost itself in having to pay out compensation, especially if you consider many of the passengers affected had paid 3-figure sums for their tickets (the guard made a lot of commission on that service!). Now I'm happy to get my money back, but I'd much rather arrive at my destination on time and have my money invested in the service rather than have it used to pay off disgruntled passengers who've suffered avoidable delays.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Do Northern not operate non-fault Delay Repay?

Of course not. They'd be in a right old financial pickle if they did
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only if 60 mins late or more, and then only the minimum entitled and only if within Northern's control.

Fortunately for me