Objects being thrown at trains-a way to prevent this?

[ChiefPlanner]

BTP caught some stone throwers at Milton Keynes back in the day when I was in charge of NLR Operations - apart from a court appearance - they were also tasked with talking and explaining their actions to the train crew involved. (3 windows broken on a 321) - it was a salutary experience for the kids as they were repeatedly asked "why" - and they of course were more than uncomfortable with the process. (turned out they were bored senseless)

No issues around the area after this was covered in the local media.

I once stopped a slow DMU when cab riding on the Coventry - Nuneaton line and chased some 14 / 15 year old stone throwers - they were not expecting us to stop and persue - and though we did not get them - they learnt a lesson. Special patrol the next day got some results.

 

[Antman]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

Bored?

Mobile phones, x boxes and endless TV channels and they're bored? Do me a favour:roll:

Funnily enough whenever I've been bored I've never felt the urge to go and throw missiles at trains!

 

[Domh245]

Bored?

Mobile phones, x boxes and endless TV channels and they're bored? Do me a favour:roll:

Funnily enough whenever I've been bored I've never felt the urge to go and throw missiles at trains!

A teenagers brain is a fickle thing. Believe it or not there are only so many times you can refresh your social media, have a game of fifa, or watch some of the c**p on TV, before you are bored out of your brain. I finished all my work for the weekend today (and a bit more), did a bit of revision as well, played some games on the PC, and then had to lay on the floor for a few hours aimlessly refreshing facebook in the hope something interesting appeared, before going and making dinner.

As for wanting to throw missiles at trains when you are bored, I think everyone agrees with you there, but again, teenagers are odd creatures. If you are full of energy, hormones, and anger against something, society, parents, love interests etc, then you just feel like being destructive. Sometimes this is just ripping up paper, sometimes it is a bit more serious.

NB - I am not condoning their behaviour, merely looking at why they do it.

 

[ComUtoR]

Bored?

Mobile phones, x boxes and endless TV channels and they're bored? Do me a favour:roll:

Yes, because that's all teenager do. :roll: Not only that, it ISN'T just "teenagers" doing it. TV is full of ****e (57 channels and nothing on !!), not all parents can afford a console, phones and social media are more used to communicate than alleviate boredom. "teenagers" congregate together and interact with each other. My son, god bless him, never wants to be in the house. He has everything you mention and more; some would say a little spoilt. All he is interested in is his friends and going out and simply hanging out together in his social circle.

Giving them something to do and a place to go makes a difference in the community.

Funnily enough whenever I've been bored I've never felt the urge to go and throw missiles at trains!

No, nor have I but I did do some silly things in my younger days that others would certainly consider anti social. This is about a small minority of people having a large impact.

Ever sat there just throwing stones ?

 

[Bevan Price]

Religion and politics can become entangled. I'm not saying I agree with your statement, but I would see an attempt (however misguided) of furthering the interests of a religion as "political", just like any other ideology.

Anyway I think we're getting rather off topic. My original point was that using the word "terrorism" in the context of this thread seems inaccurate.

Personally, I think the term "sabotage" would be a better description than "terrorism". As for "religious terrorism", I think that those involved are not true believers, because they selectively distort and manipulate the words of God and Prophets to provide an excuse for their own personal or group evil ambitions.

And as for the stone throwers - if they are caught and taken to court, they will probably find some do-gooder lawyer who will prattle on about "deprived childhoods" and claim that the "poor darlings" are victims of society and do not deserve to be punished.

In a previous (more enlightened ? ) age, they might have been sent to their school head teachers and received very sore bottoms for damaging the reputation of their school.

 

[Antman]

Yes, because that's all teenager do. :roll: Not only that, it ISN'T just "teenagers" doing it. TV is full of ****e (57 channels and nothing on !!), not all parents can afford a console, phones and social media are more used to communicate than alleviate boredom. "teenagers" congregate together and interact with each other. My son, god bless him, never wants to be in the house. He has everything you mention and more; some would say a little spoilt. All he is interested in is his friends and going out and simply hanging out together in his social circle.

Giving them something to do and a place to go makes a difference in the community.



No, nor have I but I did do some silly things in my younger days that others would certainly consider anti social. This is about a small minority of people having a large impact.

Ever sat there just throwing stones ?

Oh I won't deny doing stupid things (still do if I'm honest!) but I've never endangered anybody else in the process

 

[anme]

And as for the stone throwers - if they are caught and taken to court, they will probably find some do-gooder lawyer who will prattle on about "deprived childhoods" and claim that the "poor darlings" are victims of society and do not deserve to be punished.

Please provide an example where this has happened.

 

[DarloRich]

I see the birch em and flog em group are out in force tonight. :roll:

Whilst i am sure the holier than thou self righteous paragons of virtue that are the majority of Rail UK posters never did anything wrong in their lives, ESPECIALLY as teenagers, the rest of us know that this has been going on for an eternity. The honest posters know that as kids we all did silly things and we know that this kind of thing is usually perpetrated by people just like you, or at least the 14 year old version of you who is :

bored, hanging about with their mates and looking for something to do after their mums have kicked you outside and you don't have any money for the bus to town and the football is flat.

Most kids grow out of this kind of thing. The honest amongst you know that you did.

There are few posters adding anything sensible but i must commend the posts of ComUtor to the house.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

I have tried to find details of a fatal crash in west London due to a concrete sleeper being placed on the tracks.

West Ealing, August 1989.

 

[Antman]

I see the birch em and flog em group are out in force tonight. :roll:

Whilst i am sure the holier than thou self righteous paragons of virtue that are the majority of Rail UK posters never did anything wrong in their lives, ESPECIALLY as teenagers, the rest of us know that this has been going on for an eternity. The honest posters know that as kids we all did silly things and we know that this kind of thing is usually perpetrated by people just like you, or at least the 14 year old version of you who is :

bored, hanging about with their mates and looking for something to do after their mums have kicked you outside and you don't have any money for the bus to town and the football is flat.

Most kids grow out of this kind of thing. The honest amongst you know that you did.

There are few posters adding anything sensible but i must commend the posts of ComUtor to the house.

Yes I'm sure we've all got into a bit of mischief at some point but throwing missiles at trains goes a bit beyond that.

If you're so opposed to the 'birch em and flog em group' (whoever they are?) perhaps you could enlighten us all to your alternative solution

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

The Oxford English Dictionary agrees with me (check for yourself). If we allow anyone who causes "terror" to be a "terrorist", it devalues the word to the point of making it worthless. Muggers, spiders, things that go bump in the night and the cast and crew of horror films would all qualify.

May I then be so bold as to enquire what is the actual word root from which the word "terrorism" has evolved.

What do you mean by "spiders" in your quote above. Australia has a number of these whose bite can have rather dramatic medical effects on humans.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I didn't say it isn't "terror" (although that seems an odd word to use). I said it isn't "terrorism". To repeat once again - terrorism is a political philosophy. Unless you believe that this is done for political ends, it is *not* terrorism.

This might be an opportune moment to ask everyone to remember the original posting on this particular thread as tangential syndrome appears to have so occurred.

I am sure that both "political ends" and "political philosophy" are something extremely far removed from the cognitive thinking ability of youths who indulge in stone-throwing at trains or buses.

 

[anme]

May I then be so bold as to enquire what is the actual word root from which the word "terrorism" has evolved.

What do you mean by "spiders" in your quote above. Australia has a number of these whose bite can have rather dramatic medical effects on humans.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


This might be an opportune moment to ask everyone to remember the original posting on this particular thread as tangential syndrome appears to have so occurred.

I am sure that both "political ends" and "political philosophy" are something extremely far removed from the cognitive thinking ability of youths who indulge in stone-throwing at trains or buses.

Are you arguing that Australian spiders and stone throwing youths of limited cognitive ability are practising terrorism? I ask you to consider their motives, and refer members once again to the Oxford English Dictionary, which you can find online in case you don't currently own a copy.

You can probably work out the word from which "terrorism" evolved yourself, but if you're finding it difficult please post back and I'm sure someone will help you.

 

[DarloRich]

Yes I'm sure we've all got into a bit of mischief at some point but throwing missiles at trains goes a bit beyond that.

If you're so opposed to the 'birch em and flog em group' (whoever they are?) perhaps you could enlighten us all to your alternative solution

I don't think it does differ that much really. If they were chucking bricks I would agree and without something to change mindsets i could see how some might move on to that.

The solution should be obvious I would have thought. The youths need something to distract them from their boredom and education as to the dangers of chucking stones at trains. If the police catch up with them i would make them meet the train drivers they were chucking stones at and make them explain why and receive the opportunity for some education and receive a jolly good telling off

Or we could just criminalise a load of young kids.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Or we could just criminalise a load of young kids.

Todays stone throwers could well graduate to being the"TWOC-ers" of tomorrow...:roll:
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

You can probably work out the word from which "terrorism" evolved yourself, but if you're finding it difficult please post back and I'm sure someone will help you.

Well, that is another of my cunning plans couched in the cryptic guise of a rhetorical question that has just "gone up in smoke"...

 

[DarloRich]

Todays stone throwers could well graduate to being the"TWOC-ers" of tomorrow...:roll:

Yes I am sure SOME do. However, many of us who did silly things as kids didn't. Paul, I am sure even you did something silly as a youngster.

 

[Nevillehill]

I'm pretty sure that their intent is to hit the train. My personal belief is that they are unaware of the consequences.

How to solve it ?

Well for starters I would clear the detritus from the railway and its environs. A lot of this is opportunity. They see a few bricks, slabs etc by the railways and think, "oooooh lets chuck this over the edge"

Secondly I would educate people on the dangers. NR have an ad campaign for crossings etc but that could easily be extended to vandalism. I would also educate in schools. I know I had various safety education when I was at school and I often say that I grew up in the "play it safe" era.

Lastly I would give them something to do. Kids are bored and wander the streets like pack animals. Again, when I was a young'un we had large playgrounds, parks, clubs, skateparks etc. We had places we could congregate. A lot of those has been removed. Where I live we had a youth center open up and the kids flocked there and suffice to say that the 'lesser spotted hoodie' was seen a lot less.

You will never resolve those who are intent on causing damage.

Kids are too thick to understand, so I don't see the point in NR going into schools to educate them about the dangers, they come from poor areas and are from Poor families, *******ised kids.

 

[ExRes]

Kids are too thick to understand, so I don't see the point in NR going into schools to educate them about the dangers, they come from poor areas and are from Poor families, *******ised kids.

You think vandals only come from poor families in poor areas ?, get a life

As for all the little sweeties that are bored after watching TV, playing with their X-boxes and refreshing their facebook, maybe they could try reading books, difficult I know thanks to the destruction of the language by Twitter, perhaps voluntary work, museums, galleries, hobbies, there was and is life that doesn't require being drip fed

 

[ian959]

Kids are too thick to understand, so I don't see the point in NR going into schools to educate them about the dangers, they come from poor areas and are from Poor families, *******ised kids.

Sorry but the evidence suggested by many psychological reports is the exact opposite: the kids most likely to be engaging in such anti-social behaviour come from middle class areas and families and tend not to lack anything in the way of education or material goods.

The evidence of my family in the Philippines would suggest exactly the same thing: children of poorer families tend to not engage in anti-social behaviour and find ways to amuse themselves (they actually play such old fashioned games as hide and seek, hopscotch and jump rope). The ones from wealthier families tend to be those who get bored easily with their ipads, mobile phones and whatever else and start engaging in anti-social behaviour.

 

[bramling]

You think vandals only come from poor families in poor areas ?, get a life

As for all the little sweeties that are bored after watching TV, playing with their X-boxes and refreshing their facebook, maybe they could try reading books, difficult I know thanks to the destruction of the language by Twitter, perhaps voluntary work, museums, galleries, hobbies, there was and is life that doesn't require being drip fed

I know we'd all prefer for stonethrowing not to be associated with poorer areas, but unfortunately if you made a list of the areas where it tends to happen most then I can guarantee there would be some correlation.

South and West Yorkshire tend to be common for it, other lines where it's common are Robin Hood Line, and some urban areas. It's comparatively rare in most of the south-east.

 

[Antman]

I don't think it does differ that much really. If they were chucking bricks I would agree and without something to change mindsets i could see how some might move on to that.

The solution should be obvious I would have thought. The youths need something to distract them from their boredom and education as to the dangers of chucking stones at trains. If the police catch up with them i would make them meet the train drivers they were chucking stones at and make them explain why and receive the opportunity for some education and receive a jolly good telling off

Or we could just criminalise a load of young kids.

Well commit criminal acts and you get criminalised!

Meeting train drivers might work in some cases but harsher punishments are likely to be far more of a deterrent

 

[DarloRich]

Well commit criminal acts and you get criminalised!

Meeting train drivers might work in some cases but harsher punishments are likely to be far more of a deterrent

never pinched a penny chew from the local newsagents as a kid? Funny that the call for ever harsher punishments never seems to have any real results..........

 

[backontrack]

Kids are too thick to understand, so I don't see the point in NR going into schools to educate them about the dangers, they come from poor areas and are from Poor families, *******ised kids.

Correction: Some kids are too thick to understand. In my area, that's most, but still not all.

 

[Antman]

never pinched a penny chew from the local newsagents as a kid? Funny that the call for ever harsher punishments never seems to have any real results..........

Bit of a difference between nicking a penny chew and putting lives in danger