Daily charge for York's walking bus sparks parent anger

[yorkie]

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/139..._walking_bus_sparks_parent_anger/?ref=mr&lp=7

A GROUP of York mothers have said it is "disappointing" that their children's primary school has started charging for its walking bus service.

A 'walking bus' service is a way for children from the same area to walk to school in a safe and supervised way.

Woodthorpe Primary School has run the service for free for several years, but is now introducing a charge of £1 per child per day.

One of the mums, Emma Power, has two sets of twins. The older set attend the school, and the younger will soon be starting there. The new charge means that when Emma's younger twins start she would have to pay £4 per day, or £20 per week...

...With the charges being introduced the parents are making other arrangements to walk their children to school. According to Ms Power, the journey takes around 40 minutes. She said: "It is quite a walk."

I can understand the school wishing to cover their costs, but I am not sure how they can force people to pay? What if a parent said "follow them to school" or if a child simply turned up? They can't exactly stop them walking the same route on a public footpath.

The 40 minute walk claim is a bit puzzling though, as nowhere in the catchment area is more than a 20 minute walk. Perhaps the walking bus takes that long if it does a lot of zig-zagging and has a lot of dwell time though.

 

[IanD]

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/139..._walking_bus_sparks_parent_anger/?ref=mr&lp=7



I can understand the school wishing to cover their costs, but I am not sure how they can force people to pay? What if a parent said "follow them to school" or if a child simply turned up? They can't exactly stop them walking the same route on a public footpath.

The 40 minute walk claim is a bit puzzling though, as nowhere in the catchment area is more than a 20 minute walk. Perhaps the walking bus takes that long if it does a lot of zig-zagging and has a lot of dwell time though.

If it's OMO then they'll need to allow extra time for kids to pay the driver.

 

[Jonfun]

If the parents find it inconvenient or can't afford or whatever to drive their kids to school then why should they expect the school to provide transport for free?

Back in my day ( ) our school buses were £1 a day. Relatively few people used the service and by the time I'd left I recall around half the routes had been dropped.

I'd rather schools started putting money into providing adequate pick up and drop off facilities which take into account the fact that residents of local streets don't want them full of cars rather than piling money into providing transport at a loss for a waning number of pupils who the parents should be taking responsibility for in the first place.

 

[ainsworth74]

This is a walking bus as in the children walk to school but in a group it's not an actual bus with a vehicle involved...

 

[Domh245]

I'd rather schools started putting money into providing adequate pick up and drop off facilities which take into account the fact that residents of local streets don't want them full of cars rather than piling money into providing transport at a loss for a waning number of pupils who the parents should be taking responsibility for in the first place.

They aren't really providing transport, they are merely walking the children home. Effectively, this £1 'fare' would be going towards the overtime for that one member of staff for looking after them on the walk home. I personally think that these walking buses are a good idea, and a good way to keep active, and also a good way to prevent cars filling side roads!

 

[Jonfun]

A good way of preventing cars filling side roads is for schools to provide adequate facilities for pick up and drop off. We'll just scrap the drop off areas at train stations and hospitals and see how that fares?

 

[Merseysider]

http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/139..._walking_bus_sparks_parent_anger/?ref=mr&lp=7

I can understand the school wishing to cover their costs, but I am not sure how they can force people to pay? What if a parent said "follow them to school" or if a child simply turned up? They can't exactly stop them walking the same route on a public footpath.

The 40 minute walk claim is a bit puzzling though, as nowhere in the catchment area is more than a 20 minute walk. Perhaps the walking bus takes that long if it does a lot of zig-zagging and has a lot of dwell time though.

It's a completely unenforceable restriction

Perhaps a parent should start a rival company, providing a walking bus for only 50p per child per day.

Actually, if the walk takes ~30 mins from start to end then it's a distance of about 2 miles. It would actually be cheaper to sort out two seven-seater taxis and have the kids split the fare.

 

[Groningen]

Has the UK no bikes?

to pay £4 per day, or £20 per week

Multiply that with 44 weeks (less/more).

What an incredible stupid invention; the walking bus. I was already glad that i do not life in the UK. In one way or another the UK looks like the USA. If school is done; one can do whatever he/she wants. It does not mean directly going to home.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A good way of preventing cars filling side roads is for schools to provide adequate facilities for pick up and drop off. We'll just scrap the drop off areas at train stations and hospitals and see how that fares?

Better to prevent the car journeys in the first place. While parent paranoia continues unabated there seem few better options.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

What an incredible stupid invention; the walking bus. I was already glad that i do not life in the UK. In one way or another the UK looks like the USA. If school is done; one can do whatever he/she wants. It does not mean directly going to home.

I agree fully, but in a background of parental paranoia (clue: there are no more paedophiles than there ever were, but now we know about them) it is at least a way to ensure kids are not travelling to school by car. That said, it isn't just a UK and US thing, Switzerland has them as well, and that is a very safe and not unduly paranoid country.

 

[IanD]

The walking bus was created by comedian Eric Sykes as a joke in 1964.

Anyway, if the parents are really bothered about the cost, they could volunteer to take over the role of the paid teaching staff, maybe on a rota basis. Or do some fundraising to help cover the staff time.

Or just walk their own kids to school like people used to do in the good old days before some parents began to expect everyone else to perform their parental duties for them.

Probably the same parents who are now apalled that holiday companies charge more in school holidays. As if that didn't happen before they had their kids.

 

[Minilad]

The walking bus was created by comedian Eric Sykes as a joke in 1964.

Anyway, if the parents are really bothered about the cost, they could volunteer to take over the role of the paid teaching staff, maybe on a rota basis. Or do some fundraising to help cover the staff time.

Or just walk their own kids to school like people used to do in the good old days before some parents began to expect everyone else to perform their parental duties for them.

Probably the same parents who are now apalled that holiday companies charge more in school holidays. As if that didn't happen before they had their kids.

In the good old days the kids used to walk themselves!
That was before the SUV was invented

 

[Trog]

Why is the service needed anyway, I walked to school a distance of over a mile including crossing a main road, on my own without any problem from the age of five. I think my Mum took me the first morning then it was up to me. I remember we thought the girl who's mother was always there to meet her was a bit strange. The only difference traffic wise around the local school since those days is the number of overweight parents picking up their chubby children. The main road is probably safer than it was as the traffic is lighter and slower due to a bypass and lower speed restriction than back in the day.

 

[IanD]

In the good old days the kids used to walk themselves!
That was before the SUV was invented

Indeed. I think my mum walked me to school on my first day - but only because she was on her way somewhere else. After that it was 13 years of walking up to 3 miles each way.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The walking bus was created by comedian Eric Sykes as a joke in 1964.



Anyway, if the parents are really bothered about the cost, they could volunteer to take over the role of the paid teaching staff, maybe on a rota basis. Or do some fundraising to help cover the staff time.



Or just walk their own kids to school like people used to do in the good old days before some parents began to expect everyone else to perform their parental duties for them.



Probably the same parents who are now apalled that holiday companies charge more in school holidays. As if that didn't happen before they had their kids.

The problem with doing it themselves is that the cost of living in much of the U.K. is too high for families to have only one breadwinner.

 

[radamfi]

What an incredible stupid invention; the walking bus. I was already glad that i do not life in the UK. In one way or another the UK looks like the USA. If school is done; one can do whatever he/she wants. It does not mean directly going to home.

In Groningen and in the Netherlands in general, it is considered normal for kids to go to school by themselves, either by bike or on foot. Since about 1990, it has become socially unacceptable to allow kids to go to school by themselves in the UK. At the same time, kids started to go to schools far away as a result of "choice". So now kids are mostly taken to school by car. This is obviously bad in many ways, so the "walking bus" is a method of trying to get a few kids to school without a parent. It is at best a sticking plaster.

Growing up in the Netherlands is far superior to the UK. In the Netherlands, kids have freedom to travel around by themselves without parents. In Britain, we have the stupid phenomenon called "dad's taxi".

 

[Blindtraveler]

I agree with JakeF that it would cost the same or less for a Taxi Firm with some People Carriers or Minibuses to do this and the costs split. That is unless York is like Edinburgh and has taxi fares disproportionately higher than average?

 

[IanD]

The problem with doing it themselves is that the cost of living in much of the U.K. is too high for families to have only one breadwinner.

Didn't expect you to agree. My partner and I both work but managed to take our own kids to school.

 

[GatwickDepress]

I have to admit, the Netherlands does seem to be portrayed as quite the Garden of Eden on this forum.

 

[radamfi]

I have to admit, the Netherlands does seem to be portrayed as quite the Garden of Eden on this forum.

For good reason.

David Hembrow and his family moved from Cambridge to Assen in the northern Netherlands, about 15 miles south of Groningen, so the children could grow up in a place where they would have genuine freedom and also where they could live in a proper cycling orientated culture.

http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2013/11/has-assen-progressed-over-last-six-years.html

We emigrated from the UK at the end of August 2007 and have now lived here in Assen for more than six years. Leaving one country to live in another, especially one in which you don't speak the language, is not easy. In and of itself, we don't recommend it. Emigration causes a lot of every kind of stress. We came here without jobs to go to so one of the first things we had to do was start our own business in order to try to make ends meet. At the same time we were trying to learn Dutch, work out how to register ourselves as residents, get telephones, electricity, gas etc. organised. It's been a real struggle for all of us which I can't do justice to in one paragraph, however we do now have what we were looking for - an environment within which our children and ourselves were safe to be able to incorporate cycling into our lives.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Didn't expect you to agree. My partner and I both work but managed to take our own kids to school.

I assume you both work locally, or one of you can work at home, etc. That is not an option for everyone; you (as I) are fortunate in living in an area of high employment.

Personally I would rather see a return to more children making their own way to school, in any case. The crime rate in the UK is on a downward trend, and provided they know how to cross a road[1] they will odds on be absolutely fine.

The "walking bus", however, does seem a good solution for *very* young children who would be too young to walk alone even given the above (e.g. reception, year 1 and year 2); I can't see why people would have an issue with the concept of it. I do prefer parents to be involved in more of their childrens' lives than they often are, but the car culture of dropping kids off at school is not a good thing at all.

[1] Noting your location, the Redways are all the more reason why children would be safe walking or cycling to/from school themselves within the boundaries of MK, because you can get from anywhere to anywhere else without crossing anything busier than a residential street. For some reason the Redways have a bad reputation for crime, but the statistics show this to be totally false - it is a perception, not a reality - the Council are trying to address this a bit by cutting trees back, but there is a limit to what can be done.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I have to admit, the Netherlands does seem to be portrayed as quite the Garden of Eden on this forum.

So far as cycling and the effective system of cycleways goes, it very much is in terms of children gaining independence (and thus confidence) by way of the bicycle.

Nederlandse Spoorwegen is average at best, but that doesn't stop the cycling culture of the Netherlands being a *very* good thing in my view. Milton Keynes almost gets there - but we need *far* more of it. The London "macho" cycling culture doesn't get near it (even if it is better than nothing).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
As for the issue of charging, it's because schools are underfunded. It highlights precisely the same issue as hospitals charging for parking, in my view.

 

[edwin_m]

It highlights precisely the same issue as hospitals charging for parking, in my view.

Hospitals are a difficult one. There are some people that have to drive there due to physcial condition, but cheap/free parking encourages everyone else to drive and fil all the spaces, so there are often none left for those that really need them. Not helped of course by the move of many hospitals to edge-of-town sites with poor public transport.

Many hospitals do now use their parking fees to fund alternative public transport options, and most try to offer concessionary parking to those that need it.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Hospitals are a difficult one. There are some people that have to drive there due to physcial condition, but cheap/free parking encourages everyone else to drive and fil all the spaces, so there are often none left for those that really need them. Not helped of course by the move of many hospitals to edge-of-town sites with poor public transport.

True. But were it not for the constraint of funding, that could be solved by providing an excess of spaces in multi-storey and underground car parks.

While I'm very pro public transport/cycling, I'd take the view that we should cut sick people and those visiting them a bit of slack and accept that they will take the most convenient mode of transport, i.e. mostly the car. Obviously the funding isn't there so charges are necessary, but I'd actually rather they charged enough to provide an excess of spaces than that they didn't.

 

[radamfi]

Is hospital parking free or paid for in other countries outside the UK? I just looked up the foreign hospital I "visit" most (UMC Utrecht). I often end up here because it is at the end of a bus route with three part extra-long bendy buses, so I like riding on that route whenever I visit Utrecht. It is out-of-town next to a motorway junction, so arguably could justify free parking. But it is €1.80 per hour.

http://www.umcutrecht.nl/nl/Over-ons/Contact-route/Parkeren-UMC-Utrecht

De parkeergarage wordt veel gebruikt. Soms is de parkeergarage zelfs vol. Wij adviseren u dan ook zoveel mogelijk met het openbaar vervoer te komen.

(The car park is very well used. Sometimes it is full. We advise you therefore to visit by public transport as much as possible.)

 

[backontrack]

Holland may be OK, but I think I'd prefer York. Although they probably have the same level of flooding. :P

 

[radamfi]

Holland may be OK, but I think I'd prefer York. Although they probably have the same level of flooding. :P

What makes you prefer York?

As for flooding:

http://davidhembrow.blogspot.co.uk/2014/02/why-does-britain-flood-more-readily.html

 

[yorkie]

Can we try to get back on topic please?

A good way of preventing cars filling side roads is for schools to provide adequate facilities for pick up and drop off. We'll just scrap the drop off areas at train stations and hospitals and see how that fares?

In my experience few people tend to use these facilities properly. Most seem to (mis)use disabled parking bays requiring unnecessary reversals. And many will drop off in the street to save time. And if everyone went by car, there would be total chaos! We need to reduce car dependency.

 

[radamfi]

Regarding the Redways in Milton Keynes, its twin town in the Netherlands, Almere, also a fast growing city/large town, has fully segregated cycle routes completely separate from the road network. Like everywhere in the Netherlands, the cycle rate is high, but is not among the top towns for cycling. It would appear that a perceived lack of social safety may depress cycle rates there like it does in MK. Although another factor could be that it also has a completely segregated busway network which is highly integrated with the numerous rail stations in Almere.

https://bicycledutch.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/almere-nominee-for-best-cycling-city/

 

[WestCoast]

They seem to be quite numerous now in Birmingham due to initiatives by the City Council and associated bodes. I haven't seen any charges being levied, I think it should be a free service to children in cities like Birmingham where walking to school is almost always the best way.

They've proved quite successful, bearing in mind that in comparison to cities like York or Edinburgh, Birmingham's road hazards are on another level and the volume of peak hour traffic is much higher.

I've even seen flags for them in one area of the city, the exact location of which I cannot remember.

 

[edwin_m]

True. But were it not for the constraint of funding, that could be solved by providing an excess of spaces in multi-storey and underground car parks.

While I'm very pro public transport/cycling, I'd take the view that we should cut sick people and those visiting them a bit of slack and accept that they will take the most convenient mode of transport, i.e. mostly the car. Obviously the funding isn't there so charges are necessary, but I'd actually rather they charged enough to provide an excess of spaces than that they didn't.

Unfortunately a lot of non-sick people would then also use the free parking when visiting or working at the hospital, or indeed anywhere nearby where parking is a bit difficult. Thus increasing traffic congestion and damaging the economics of public transport provision.

Obviously a bit case-by-case, but apparently it costs about £400 a year to provide a typical parking space, and I'd much rather this money went into funding healthcare than paying for spaces for people who don't really need them.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately a lot of non-sick people would then also use the free parking when visiting

Note that I included visiting sick people in deserving cases. So yes they would, and yes they should.

or working at the hospital

I see no reason why those working at a site like that shouldn't get free parking if they want it. Many employees do in many industries. The employer charging the employee for parking is a silly transaction; just pay a little less and provide it free.

or indeed anywhere nearby where parking is a bit difficult. Thus increasing traffic congestion and damaging the economics of public transport provision.

The purpose of a hospital is not to provide a viable public transport market (though in many cases it does). The purpose is to make sick people better. FWIW, it would be relatively cheap to provide free parking restricted to hospital users, you would just need a means of dishing out a daily exit barrier code within the hospital; most people would not be brazen enough to walk in and ask for it.

Obviously a bit case-by-case, but apparently it costs about £400 a year to provide a typical parking space, and I'd much rather this money went into funding healthcare than paying for spaces for people who don't really need them.

With restricted funding this is why it is as it is, but I would prefer to pay more tax and fund the health service properly - and that includes removing transport hassle for those who are ill, are upset because people are ill, or are the people who dedicate their lives, often at much lower pay than they'd get in other industries, to making sick people better.