Caledonian Sleeper discussion

[Carntyne]

The full 16 coaches were in Glasgow Central this morning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The full 16 coaches were in Glasgow Central this morning.

Two BSOs? Is the thing that's broken on it something that means it can run with other vehicles but not alone?

 

[Peter Mugridge]

A very trustworthy source tells me that the problem with the BUO shortage is severe wheelflats. they cannot simply hire one in from elsewhere because there are some differences between those that are used in the Sleeper fleet and those in the rest of the UK fleet.

In fact they are hiring in several carriages, from Riviera I believe, to cover for shortages, but these will need some work done to them first to make them compatible with the Sleeper rakes so they won't appear immediately. I don't know when they will appear, before anyone asks...

 

[Bletchleyite]

So if they would just post that on their website rather than playing secret squirrel, we might have a bit more trust in them.

 

[Observer]

A very trustworthy source tells me that the problem with the BUO shortage is severe wheelflats. they cannot simply hire one in from elsewhere because there are some differences between those that are used in the Sleeper fleet and those in the rest of the UK fleet.

In fact they are hiring in several carriages, from Riviera I believe, to cover for shortages, but these will need some work done to them first to make them compatible with the Sleeper rakes so they won't appear immediately. I don't know when they will appear, before anyone asks...

Well at least they're dealing with Riviera so that should put that request aside now. But certainly, Caledonian Sleeper should just inform customers what the situation is and try and sort out arrangements as good as possible. A replacement bus to Euston probably isn't many peoples cup of tea, if they wanted that route I'm sure they'd rather book the Megabus sleeper services instead.

 

[najaB]

More fun and games on the Highland tonight - Aberdeen seated car unserviceable, so confusion on the platform at Euston as the stewards try their best to move people around into berths. Can't complain personally as I got 'upgraded' to a First Class berth, but at least one seated passenger has refused to share a cabin.

A separate bit of gossip - a friend of a friend has told me that the stewards balloted over strike action over the maintenance situation (and their having to deal with the upset customers) but Serco management convinced them to hold off for a bit.

 

[Observer]

I'm not surprised. But Serco won't be able to shut them up for good. There's serious issues happening and they need to be resolved. Passengers will eventually get sick of them and switch to other methods of getting to and from, even if they're not that ideal.

Also, 73966 is starting to be used on ECS moves. Probably a long shot away from being used on the passenger runs though.

 

[Highland37]

The announcement of the Inverness to Heathrow service starting next year can only pile the pressure on. Rail is already perceived as being unreliable, whether that is justified or not, and air as reliable.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Hardly surprising staff were talked out of strikes, serco have form for poor industrial relations in Scotland already and more bad press is exactly what they DONT need! Good to know theres some hired in MK2s on the way. New air service from Inverness pluss upping of current ones will I fear break the sleaper for anyone north of Perth as the costs woant make much odds to many.
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Iv just been requested as often happens to do some work in London in Jan and a travel expenses are generous would normally go First on the sleaper down and VTWC Return with cabbin add on Southbound. This time however Im not trusting the Edinburgh to run and as Id normally bord early and get me head down Im flying BA instead so thats another customer lost.

 

[Bungle965]

Oh dear that is a shame. I would hope though that they would have got the problems sorted out by Jan!
Sam

 

[berneyarms]

The announcement of the Inverness to Heathrow service starting next year can only pile the pressure on. Rail is already perceived as being unreliable, whether that is justified or not, and air as reliable.

Yes and no - the timing of the flight is in the middle of the day - not much use for business travellers compared with an overnight train.

 

[Highland37]

Yes and no - the timing of the flight is in the middle of the day - not much use for business travellers compared with an overnight train.

Yes meaning they can stay at home and travel during the day. Bonus!

The key issue is reliability. The Railway is much more complex and also must less reliable. Planes can fly in a straight line with no need for tracks.

This is why the Sleeper needs to be at the top of its game all the time. Not some of the time. Who on earth is going to pay £100+ with the fear they might get a bus when you can pay similar and get there more reliably.

Has anyone ever heard of an airline organising a bus from EDI to LHR?

Are the 92s now on the service most of the time?

 

[Carntyne]

It's 90's running it at the moment I think, there's been a few at Polmadie over the past few weeks.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

Has anyone ever heard of an airline organising a bus from EDI to LHR?

What exactly do you think happened when LHR and other UK airports were fog bound this week ?

You should have a look through http://www.thebasource.com/ and review the trouble BA has on a daily basis, anybody suggesting flying is more reliable than taking the train is in for a bit of shock, none more so than those people who ended up in Edinburgh and not Aberdeen on Tuesday.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes meaning they can stay at home and travel during the day. Bonus!

The vast majority of business travellers need to arrive at the destination airport somewhere approximating to 8am (9am probably tolerable but not really any later), and leave it somewhere around 5pm (anywhere around 4:30-6:30pm probably tolerable, but not really any earlier or later). One exception: a late Sunday evening flight is welcomed by some.

If they don't provide flights at those times, it will be a complete irrelevance for most business travel.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes meaning they can stay at home and travel during the day. Bonus! This is why the Sleeper needs to be at the top of its game all the time. Not some of the time. Who on earth is going to pay £100+ with the fear they might get a bus when you can pay similar and get there more reliably.

I do not want:-

1. To have to share a cabin (I'd rather have a seat - and I would have been one of the ones *very* unhappy with the upthread situation of having to switch from a single airline seat to a shared cabin). It is simply too intimate a situation for me to sleep with someone else there I don't know in such a small cabin, and as I snore I doubt they would like it either if I did!

2. To have to make the journey by coach, unless it's a Souterbus sleeper, which I've used and it is pretty good. (I read that some European countries will not allow beds in buses, which is a shame as it'd be perfect for international travel).

3. To have to use the Highlander and get off at 4am.

So far as I am concerned, the only acceptable replacements are, in order:

1. A flight (any airline will do) the following morning to arrive by 9am plus hotel accommodation.

2. Being notified sufficiently in advance that I can book the Megabus sleeper (if there is space) and get a full refund.

3. Possibly a re-route to Glasgow, but work would not be happy with the delay too many times.

4. I might tolerate the first day train if First Class is provided and the wi-fi is decent so I don't lose working time.

I'm concerned I would not get satisfaction with these, therefore I am unlikely to consider the Edinburgh service at the moment even though I am doing some work in Scotland for which it would be a good option.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Oh dear that is a shame. I would hope though that they would have got the problems sorted out by Jan!
Sam

So would I, but my advance planning for this one demonstrates my lack of confidence in this poor answer for a service doing what it says on the ticket.

 

[berneyarms]

Yes meaning they can stay at home and travel during the day. Bonus!

The key issue is reliability. The Railway is much more complex and also must less reliable. Planes can fly in a straight line with no need for tracks.

This is why the Sleeper needs to be at the top of its game all the time. Not some of the time. Who on earth is going to pay £100+ with the fear they might get a bus when you can pay similar and get there more reliably.

Has anyone ever heard of an airline organising a bus from EDI to LHR?

Are the 92s now on the service most of the time?

I'm not sure that too many employers would view that as an acceptable viewpoint.

The new BA flights are timed at:
LHR 09:55
INV 11:30

INV 12:10
LHR 13:40

Definitely not aimed at the business market.

 

[najaB]

The new BA flights are timed at:
LHR 09:55
INV 11:30

INV 12:10
LHR 13:40

Definitely not aimed at the business market.

I agree. Sounds more like they have an A320 (I'm guessing) that's not needed for a few hours between European turns.

 

[LeylandLen]

Of course all these problems with the sleeper are happening during mild autumnal weather covering all of the UK as far as I can see from BBC forecasts and observations . No doubt it will get colder soon with subsequent problems on the FW and Inverness lines. Any prospective skiers will want snow and a reliable service. Is the sleeper service to/from INV and FW able to take skis etc ?

 

[route:oxford]

I'm not sure that too many employers would view that as an acceptable viewpoint.

The new BA flights are timed at:
LHR 09:55
INV 11:30

INV 12:10
LHR 13:40

Definitely not aimed at the business market.

Really?

They are perfectly timed to connect with transatlantic flights. Leave Inverness lunchtime on Sunday, arrive Chicago 18:10 Sunday evening. Work Monday to Friday. 18:10 flight from Chicago and back for a late Highland Breakast on Saturday morning.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Ah, that may be the rationale. But they are basically no use for a domestic business trip.

 

[Chrism20]

Has anyone ever heard of an airline organising a bus from EDI to LHR?
?

Oh they don't even go to lengths like that if you are flying from LGW to EDI you get told to take the transit and go "Downstairs" to the train station and make your own way home at your own expense.

Bizarrely the last time it happened to me was back in the days of BA Connect. Mainline had stopped all domestics but BA Connect had not and I ended up flying to Inverness and got the last train back to Edinburgh.

 

[berneyarms]

Really?

They are perfectly timed to connect with transatlantic flights. Leave Inverness lunchtime on Sunday, arrive Chicago 18:10 Sunday evening. Work Monday to Friday. 18:10 flight from Chicago and back for a late Highland Breakast on Saturday morning.

I'm talking about domestic business travellers between Inverness and London.

I doubt very much that many business people going to fly onwards are going to use the sleeper in the first place.

The flights may well be fine for interline connections, but that's a different debate.

 

[Highland37]

Fair enough. Believe me. I live in Inverness and the flight is a big deal. People are talking about it as it gives them access to LHR. They are not talking about the sleeper much other than the unreliability of it.

It's not good news for the sleeper in any way. That's why I say the sleeper has to be at the top of its game, all the time.

 

[route:oxford]

I'm talking about domestic business travellers between Inverness and London.

It's a shame that you chose not to disclose that in your content.

A reasonable person would expect domestic business air travellers to make use of the 06:45 service to Gatwick.

I doubt very much that many business people going to fly onwards are going to use the sleeper in the first place.

Clearly not with the current rate of reliability.

I had planned on using the sleeper in a fortnight after a business meeting in Edinburgh. Train to Stirling, have supper with family, then get the 00:xx sleeper from Stirling to Euston.

It's not worth the risk. I'll be be on the flight on the Monday evening.

The flights may well be fine for interline connections, but that's a different debate.

It's a core part of the debate.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's a core part of the debate.

What, interlining? I doubt it. When connecting to another flight, by far the easiest thing to use is a flight. You can check your luggage through, and the connection is guaranteed. Until we start doing codeshares like Thalys and the likes do, rail is not going to be an effective way of getting to Ee'throw for another flight (and even then it's not half as convenient as flying in).

Most people using the Caledonian Sleeper are using it as a point to point service with perhaps a single local rail connection at one or other end.

If the flights don't operate at times useful for point to point domestic business trips, that being a majority use of the Lowlander, they are a total irrelevance to it. Yes, people are pleased they have got the flight which will allow a connection onto a long-haul, but that won't be to use instead of the Sleeper, it'll be because they can avail themselves of the wide range of flights from LHR without having to get to Edinburgh or Glasgow to get a connecting domestic flight.

 

[najaB]

What, interlining? I doubt it. When connecting to another flight, by far the easiest thing to use is a flight. You can check your luggage through, and the connection is guaranteed. Until we start doing codeshares like Thalys and the likes do, rail is not going to be an effective way of getting to Ee'throw for another flight (and even then it's not half as convenient as flying in).

Ageed 100%. I've done it twice - travelled down on the Sleeper to connect to an international flight. Once from Heathrow, the other time from Gatwick. Never again.

The first time the return flight was delayed (well, the connecting flight at the other end was cancelled and we were rerouted) which meant purchasing walk-up train ticket from London back to Scotland. Trying to avoid this the second time meant half a day spent in London for no reason (though I did go to the Zoo for the first time since I was a child).

 

[Bletchleyite]

The first time the return flight was delayed (well, the connecting flight at the other end was cancelled and we were rerouted) which meant purchasing walk-up train ticket from London back to Scotland. Trying to avoid this the second time meant half a day spent in London for no reason (though I did go to the Zoo for the first time since I was a child).

While I agree with that being an issue, did your travel insurance not kick in to cover the cost of the additional train ticket? Or was it below the excess?

 

[najaB]

While I agree with that being an issue, did your travel insurance not kick in to cover the cost of the additional train ticket? Or was it below the excess?

Stupidly didn't have insurance. Again, not a mistake I intend to make again.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Stupidly didn't have insurance. Again, not a mistake I intend to make again.

Fair enough