D Trains and the Marston Vale Line

[asylumxl]

People are talking about using SDO and longer trains, but from my knowledge of the line I'd imagine longer trains would end up overhanging on to level crossings or occupying two signal blocks.

Really, some of the trackside furnishings need moving in the long run.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Really, some of the trackside furnishings need moving in the long run.

I would expect for EWR they will be. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few station closures (Kempston Hardwick, for instance, is wonderfully pointless) but those remaining upgraded to a more mainline standard a la Islip.

 

[zn1]

everyone here is slagging the dear old ford tranny engines, they are built and used in vans, minibuses and thrashed to death in white vans with good reliabilty, are banged around, many with minimal servicing and run for years .. they have serviced the transits and LDVs for years, never had a transit fail on me, so having them slung under D stock shouldnt be an issue, D stock have good underframes, serviceable bogies and motors and good body, the interior can be modelled to cope with whatever demands are needed, personally if they were to work the Branch they need to 2x2 seats,(old met seating). remembering the ST trininans express can get crowded and as said ridgmont etc...as for the trains going direct to MKC this should be happening now - Bletchley can be easily accessed via Fenny Stratford. purely my opinions...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
why shut dear old Kempston, - Make it a request stop like it used to be. i suspect there will be houses there soon...with it being so close to the 421 it would make sense to keep it open for future housing/industrial use

 

[MML]

Even with the proposed EWR electrification, there is still a proposed hourly all-stations service between Bedford and Bletchley (perhaps MK). And this is unlikely to be a 4-car EMU. The fundamental problem with the line has been lack of development and the poor frequency of service.

The line travels through a quite affluent area which is quite sparsely populated. Why would the locals give up using their cars when the automobile provides a fast, reliable and timely option.

There has and continues to be development along the line (the Amazon distribution warehouse at Ridgmont, new housing in many of the adjacent villages) but infrastructure development has not been forthcoming. The line travels immediately behind the large Kempston Interchange Retail park just south of Bedford, yet neither the local council nor better still the developer of the retail park did not provide provision of a simple platform and shelter to allow visitors to access the line. And the line is still not linked to MK after many years of promised connections.

Frequency of service is another deterrent. An hourly service Monday to Saturday in each direction and no Sunday service is really not fit for purpose in 2015. Who would travel on a line knowing that if they missed a train, it would mean standing in a drafty bus shelter for a hour waiting for the next. It might be a result of single line working or other infrastructure limitations, but to become an attractive alternative to the car or bus, the service should be at least half-hourly in each direction. And with a Sunday service too, indeed with Sunday trading this is now one of the busier days of the week and should be capitalised upon.

If the addition of low-cost 2-car D-trains can bring about this service transformation then it should be welcomed. Otherwise the route will unfortunately continue to be the second best option for most, with most choosing the motor vehicle to go about their daily lives.

 

[D365]

What about either a 319 or 365 as a three car formation (if that's even physically possible for a 365)?

Physically, a 3-car 365 is possible - with what's left of 365526...

I don't know why you're suggesting a 3-car Class 319 when it's known that a Class 321 (or equivalent AC unit) is cheaper to modify. PEP and Mk3-based EMUs will be widely available following Thameslink and Crossrail fleet rollout.

 

[DarloRich]

I would expect for EWR they will be. I wouldn't be surprised to see a few station closures (Kempston Hardwick, for instance, is wonderfully pointless) but those remaining upgraded to a more mainline standard a la Islip.

only changes planned at 2 stations and no closures. There are several people i know use Kempston Hardwick daily. Once the development at Wixhams completes the potential is there for more passengers.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Even with the proposed EWR electrification, there is still a proposed hourly all-stations service between Bedford and Bletchley (perhaps MK). And this is unlikely to be a 4-car EMU.

I reckon it will, simply because there is a DMU shortage and plenty of spare EMUs becoming available.

 

[Hadders]

A 319 can't easily be shortened to 3 carriages because of how the equipment is laid out. This was done to death on the thread about transferring them to Northern.

I don't now the situation with 319s or 365s.

 

[D365]

I don't now the situation with 319s or 365s.

The Class 365s are (for the time being) all accounted for at GN and GWR. SpacePhoenix's query wasn't all that constructive in terms of the interim diesel situation which is under discussion.

 

[DarloRich]

I reckon it will, simply because there is a DMU shortage and plenty of spare EMUs becoming available.

As long as the line between Bletchely & Bedford is electrified. If it isn't ( and that cant be said to be certain at present) a diesel will be needed.

The answer on electrification will be to provide a 3 car EMU with sdo

 

[childwallblues]

A 319 can't easily be shortened to 3 carriages because of how the equipment is laid out. This was done to death on the thread about transferring them to Northern.

I don't now the situation with 319s or 365s.

Even though there are 86 Class 319s how many will be left after Northern and LM requirements?

 

[D365]

Even though there are 86 Class 319s how many will be left after Northern and LM requirements?

Don't forget the possibility of 20 units (or thereabouts) to Southeastern.

 

[Bletchleyite]

The answer on electrification will be to provide a 3 car EMU with sdo

Or just use one of the 4-car EMUs with SDO which will no doubt be running the main service, that being the default length in those parts.

 

[DarloRich]

Or just use one of the 4-car EMUs with SDO which will no doubt be running the main service, that being the default length in those parts.

apologies - i meant 4 car. Or any Car tbh as long as it has sdo IF the line between Beltchley and Bedford is electrified anytime soon!

 

[Bletchleyite]

apologies - i meant 4 car. Or any Car tbh as long as it has sdo IF the line between Beltchley and Bedford is electrified anytime soon!

I'd be surprised if, assuming it goes ahead, East West Rail was not built as electrified from day one.

 

[DarloRich]

I'd be surprised if, assuming it goes ahead, East West Rail was not built as electrified from day one.

I think at present everything is up for grabs because of the NR funding issues.

Ihave more confidence about the Bletchley - Oxford section going ahead although later than planned than the Bletchley - Bedford section. It is to easy to cut ( sorry pause indefinitely) that section without impacting on the new journey opportunities offered by Oxford - MK

 

[A0]

Physically, a 3-car 365 is possible - with what's left of 365526...

You'll have a job - it's missing one of the driving cars........

Not sure that suggestion is in particularly good taste though given the circumstances the unit was 'reduced'.

 

[northwichcat]

A 319 can't easily be shortened to 3 carriages because of how the equipment is laid out. This was done to death on the thread about transferring them to Northern.

Can't easily be done but Porterbrook claim they have found ways of making them 3 car faster accelerating trains (but with a lower top speed) and also a way of rebuilding the fronts to include corridor connections. It just depends if anyone is willing for such changes.

Even though there are 86 Class 319s how many will be left after Northern and LM requirements?

We don't know at the moment. The Northern situation is all up in the air.
Northern will definitely need more EMUs. However,

• The 323s apparently won't remain with Northern long term so will need replacing with something and apparently the 319s accelerate too slowly to keep to 323 timings.
• They will have to run 'Regional Express' standard EMUs on some services. It's rumoured the 350/4s could be transferred to Northern for that role. However, it's also rumoured Angel Trains want the 350/4s to be with the same operator as the /1s and /3s but Porterbrook are willing to let the 350/2s transfer to another operator.

The situation should become clearer when the Northern franchise award is made in December. If it involves stock transferring between LM and Northern, maybe DfT will also want to announce the LM franchise around the same time to prevent media reports of one area being left short? Or maybe DfT won't think of that.

 

[47802]

Can't easily be done but Porterbrook claim they have found ways of making them 3 car faster accelerating trains (but with a lower top speed) and also a way of rebuilding the fronts to include corridor connections. It just depends if anyone is willing for such changes.

.

I'm somewhat sceptical of the above that's looks like a fairly major and expensive rework for nearly 30 year old trains. Probably better off buying new and using the 319's on routes where you don't need to do that.

 

[mr_jrt]

...or, heaven forbid, paying to add some platform extensions to get the platforms up to 4-car lengths!

 

[DarloRich]

...or, heaven forbid, paying to add some platform extensions to get the platforms up to 4-car lengths!

however it isn't just the platform length that need to be extended. Signals would need to be moved in many locations, level crossings or bridges dealt with at others etc

 

[northwichcat]

however it isn't just the platform length that need to be extended. Signals would need to be moved in many locations, level crossings or bridges dealt with at others etc

Indeed, which is why extending the platforms at Salford Crescent to take 6 car 185s (or equivalent) ran in to millions, it required moving signals and points.