Hidden Regulations and travel time restrictions

[Yabbadabba]

Mod Note: Split from this thread.

What does Hidden regulations mean?

Ah the infamous "Hidden Recommendation 18" as taken from the "Investigation into the Clapham Junction Railway Accident" Anthony Hidden QC.

18. BR shall ensure that overtime is monitored so that no individual is working excessive levels of overtime.

All the other stuff regarding hours worked and rest periods have nothing to do with the recommendation but are in fact agreements between the company and trade unions, employment law and Europepean working time regalations.

 

[HowardGWR]

Ah the infamous "Hidden Recommendation 18" as taken from the "Investigation into the Clapham Junction Railway Accident" Anthony Hidden QC.

18. BR shall ensure that overtime is monitored so that no individual is working excessive levels of overtime.

All the other stuff regarding hours worked and rest periods have nothing to do with the recommendation but are in fact agreements between the company and trade unions, employment law and European working time regulations.

A good job all these restrictions on working hours are in place. Reading the historical accounts of collisions, the ludicrously long hours of work, in the past, were a significant factor in human error-caused collisions.

Safety considerations on the roads, though, are so 'Wild West' in non enforcement of rules, one does feel a certain sympathy for rail staff when they err. They will probably break far more laws and take far more risks when driving to and from work, and no one gives a fig.

 

[Legzr1]

They will probably break far more laws and take far more risks when driving to and from work, and no one gives a fig.

That is changing.

 

[ComUtoR]

That is changing.

I'll bite. Whats "changing" ?

 

[Class 170101]

I believe recent advertisements say you must only be a certain time from work - is it 75 minutes?

 

[Legzr1]

I'll bite. Whats "changing" ?

Over the years the industry has gone from 'do what you want before and after taking duty' to the current situation where the ORR look seriously at Fatigue Indexes and Riddor reportable accidents travelling for work together with the average 60 min max. commute with most TOCs and FOCs.

As with everything on the railway, change is never quick but look back 10,20 or 30 years and it's a different place.



http://orr.gov.uk/what-and-how-we-r...search/worker-safety/working-patterns-fatigue

http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0005/2867/managing_rail_fatigue.pdf

 

[Llanigraham]

I believe recent advertisements say you must only be a certain time from work - is it 75 minutes?

What adverts?
I've not seen anything.

 

[ComUtoR]

Cheers Legzr1

 

[The Planner]

What adverts?
I've not seen anything.

We were blocked on travel time when we moved to MK. There were a few that would have gone but were outside the boundary and didn't want to move.

 

[alxndr]

What adverts?

I've not seen anything.

They're saying 75 minutes on the Network Rail Apprenticeship Scheme Facebook page. I'm on my phone at the moment so unfortunately can't provide a link.

I'm sure for the 2013 intake they said you had to be within an hour's journey though, so seems a step backwards in that regard.

 

[Crossover]

They're saying 75 minutes on the Network Rail Apprenticeship Scheme Facebook page. I'm on my phone at the moment so unfortunately can't provide a link.

I'm sure for the 2013 intake they said you had to be within an hour's journey though, so seems a step backwards in that regard.

It doesn't seem unreasonable. My commute to work by road takes 40 mins on a good day (i.e. at times like now, school holidays!), though often the best part of an hour. I really wouldn't want to be commuting any more than that on a given day!

 

[TDK]

The reasoning for the rule of being a certain time from a depot is the possibility that the fatigue index will in fact take into account travelling time into its model so therefore the 12 hour hidden rules may include travelling time, to ensure the business isn't affected no more than 2 hours travelling time both ways must be implemented for the companies to be able to have diagrams up to 10 hours. If in the future the maximum turn length is a compulsory 9 hours this travelling time may increase by 30 minutes each way. This is the reason for the restrictions in the travelling time and not the TOC's being pedantic.

 

[Chrisgr31]

If this was implemented across all businesses and jobs it would have an interesting effect on the railways! Working in London you'd almost have to live within the M25 by the time you take in to account the journey time to the station from home, and from the London Terminus to your actual workplace.

The need for trains outside 30 minutes from London Terminus's would be limited!

The reality surely is that whether you work for the railway or anyone else the issue more is down to the person and their mode of travel. travelling on the train for an hour for example gives an opportunity to snooze, cant do tat if driving.

 

[Chris M]

The reality surely is that whether you work for the railway or anyone else the issue more is down to the person and their mode of travel. travelling on the train for an hour for example gives an opportunity to snooze, cant do tat if driving.

Can't necessarily sleep on the train (c.f. the no room to move, and passenger behaviour in quiet coaches threads)

 

[edwin_m]

Can't necessarily sleep on the train (c.f. the no room to move, and passenger behaviour in quiet coaches threads)

But if you're over-tired on your train home it's unlikely you'll cause harm to anyone else. Not so if you're driving home...

 

[Chris M]

But if you're over-tired on your train home it's unlikely you'll cause harm to anyone else. Not so if you're driving home...

Very true.
Fortunately the road accident I had while driving tired was damage only.