Should I pursue this or let it drop ?

[TheEdge]

First off, I am not the OP. But I speak from the prespective as an Operations Manager who deals with client and customer complaints. When I am working off shore I do feel in a better position to be able to tell the wronged party, once we have established that their complaint in upheld, what we have done about it. This makes them feel heard, understood and gives them greater confidance that something has been done about the matter. By contrast, when dealing with an issue in the UK I am limited as to what I am allowed to say. I am not able to give the wronged party and real information other then a general assurance that the matter will be dealt with. This makes it harder to regain customer confidance.

Wow, that couldn't read more like management speak from someone who seems like they take pleasure from the disciplinary procedure if you tried. It also nicely explains your attitude to staff in your posts.

I can see no way in which knowing "staff member received a warning" is anymore useful than "action has been taken". It seems like its nothing more than trying to take a head. Look at me, my complaint got someone sacked, I'm the big man...

 

[extendedpaul]

This seems to have provoked some interesting debate plus a bizarre suggestion about public floggings of wrongdoers.

In my e-mailed complaint to the TOC I referred to the gates rejecting gold card tickets before 10am as that led to the incident involving my wife. The majority of the reply explains at some length why that is the case - apparently it will eventually change. I previously quoted most of the part about the employee's actions.

Before I made the comment to the staff member involved that my ticket was valid and there was no need to speak to my wife I first just showed him the ticket and he opened the gate. I did think he might wish to apologise but he said nothing. Previous posts now make me realise why he did that but I have to say that if he had been made aware of my complaint and was choosing not to acknowledge it he is a very good actor...

I spent most of my working life dealing face to face and over the phone with the general public and like everyone I was occasionally on the receiving end of complaints. We were encouraged to apologise in person if the complaint had been recognised as justified and upheld but say nothing if the complaint had been found to be without foundation or even vexacious. I still have one follow up letter from a person following such an incident praising me highly when she has previously complained about me and a breach of confidentiality.(I had phoned her about something, confirmed her name, started to talk about her claim but was actually speaking to her same-named elderly mother ...oops) I mention this as it may show why I felt the need to reopen my complaint to the TOC.

 

[najaB]

...plus a bizarre suggestion that I support public floggings of wrongdoers...

I believe that was intended for gray1404 rather than yourself.

 

[extendedpaul]

Amended, thank you.

 

[Clip]

Before I made the comment to the staff member involved that my ticket was valid and there was no need to speak to my wife I first just showed him the ticket and he opened the gate. I did think he might wish to apologise but he said nothing. Previous posts now make me realise why he did that but I have to say that if he had been made aware of my complaint and was choosing not to acknowledge it he is a very good actor...

.

Because how was he to know that you wouldnt complain about him mentioning the situation again and you had just 'wanted to let it lie' so the poor bugger cant win here can he? Thats what will have been going on in his head I have absolute no doubt about it. Staff recieve(or should) conflict avoidance training and whilst his first instance was stupid his second was a perfect example of avoiding conflict - something which you seemed to want to raise again

And I have no doubt in my mind that he has been spoken to and this is on hsi record. Thats all you need to know and have been told by the TOC.

 

[extendedpaul]

Because how was he to know that you wouldnt complain about him mentioning the situation again and you had just 'wanted to let it lie' so the poor bugger cant win here can he? Thats what will have been going on in his head I have absolute no doubt about it. Staff recieve(or should) conflict avoidance training and whilst his first instance was stupid his second was a perfect example of avoiding conflict - something which you seemed to want to raise again

And I have no doubt in my mind that he has been spoken to and this is on hsi record. Thats all you need to know and have been told by the TOC.

If he had apologised I would simply have said that we all make mistakes and I would probably have re-contacted the TOC to say what had happened and that I appreciated the apology and regarded the matter as closed.

I am not convinced that acting as if nothing has happened and that no complaint has been made is conflict avoidance. I suspect a lot of people would react as I did and believe, rightly or wrongly, that their grievance had not actually been investigated at all.

 

[gray1404]

Wow, that couldn't read more like management speak from someone who seems like they take pleasure from the disciplinary procedure if you tried. It also nicely explains your attitude to staff in your posts.

Could you please justify your remarks there and explain exactly how what I have said backs up your remarks above. I see no nexus personally. I certainly do not delight in disciplinary process. However, it is a tool which does hav to be used sometimes. What is more important in a complaint situation however if addressing why the problem happened in the first place. Also, considering what training and monitoring or coaching needs to be given to the member of staff concerned. What I would say has made my role different to most British organisations is we actually do know what excellent customer service is and delight in delivering it. There is not much of a service culture in the UK and, in the main, the British do not have a clue about customer service delivery. When we have a problem we will actaully do something real about it and put it right and prevent reoccurance, rather then just fobbing the customer off British style.

 

[Darandio]

When we have a problem we will actaully do something real about it and put it right and prevent reoccurance, rather then just fobbing the customer off British style.

And there is nothing to suggest any 'fobbing off' here at all. The OP was informed that the member of staff has been addressed on the issue, that is the end of the matter. There was therefore no reoccurence of the issue.

What the OP had chosen to do second time around has no bearing on this whatsoever.

 

[TheEdge]

Could you please justify your remarks there and explain exactly how what I have said backs up your remarks above.

The whole wording of the thing, the "feel heard, understood" line, the being able to go back to whoever and make some sort of report on the bollocking the staff member received. It adds nothing to the whole process and seem like nothing but trying to make someone feel powerful.

I certainly do not delight in disciplinary process.

So why does almost every post you make in this sort of thread head towards, complain and demand punishment/retraining/discipline and never seem to even consider that the complainant is in the wrong. Do you consider you own staff guilty until proven innocent, because that really is the picture you paint on here.

Also, considering what training and monitoring or coaching needs to be given to the member of staff concerned.

And why does that need to be public knowledge. As simple appropriate action has been taken response is easily enough for the original complainant, not a full break down.

There is not much of a service culture in the UK and, in the main, the British do not have a clue about customer service delivery. When we have a problem we will actaully do something real about it and put it right and prevent reoccurance, rather then just fobbing the customer off British style.

But, as Darandino said where is the fobbing off? OP complained, company responded, case closed. OP later approached the member of staff and made a comment above the previous incident. There was never a fobbing off.

 

[tony6499]

If the OP carries on he could well find his way to being on the end of a complaint for harassment, he has been told it has been dealt with end of story.

Keep approaching the person he thought dealt with him originally for no reason could end up with him being in the wrong.

 

[hounddog]

If the OP carries on he could well find his way to being on the end of a complaint for harassment, he has been told it has been dealt with end of story.

The company says the staff member was dealt with, the staff member says he wasn't. I've no idea who's telling the porkie but I agree pushing the issue won't get anywhere.

 

[Mag_seven]

That would have been the end of the matter - a momentary error of judgement by an employee and a well-handled complaint.

But YOU clearly did not regard it as "the end of the matter" - why did you go on to say "I can assure you my ticket is definitely valid to travel now and there is no need to speak to my wife".

 

[VauxhallandI]

The bloke just had to say sorry, is it too much to ask for?

That's when the matter ends. Talk about defend the indefensible.

If it had been at a random station on the other side of the country then fair enough but if the guy sees the OP everyday then where is his dignity? He was in the wrong, grow a pair and apologise.

I can't see how apologising is going to produce a worse situation.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Equally, he is entitled to treat each day's work as another episode in a discontinuous stream of workdays. Not carrying grudges or remorse from one day to the next.

And equally, entitled not to conflate a personal relation with a work activity. Not saying 'I'm sorry' for what is done for the employer.

We won't all have the same view on how personally we take our work, but we should all be trying to understand the range of views that will be held.

I add my voice to the very first posts which advised dropping the whole matter. Not just in relations with the company, and on here, but in your personal life too. There are issues woth pursuing, some which have devastaling and cruel impacts on many people. This isn't one of them.

 

[bb21]

I really don't understand this obsession with a personal apology. The company has apologised on the employee's behalf so it has been acknowledged that what happened was unacceptable.

The only thing to be gained is a bit of pride that "I was right". There is no guarantee even if the employee acknowledged that he had been spoken to about that matter he was not simply fobbing you off (as part of conflict avoidance).

I for one am glad that data protection legislation in this country prevents details of disciplinary actions being made public.

So again, I ask, what is to be gained by wanting a personal apology apart from a bit of pride? Life is too short to worried about things like this. No one has lost out. Let it go.

As an example, I had the police called on me by a TM once, and it was acknowledged by the company that what happened was unreasonable and suitable training would be given. I didn't go chasing after the guy the next time I saw him. I simply let him get on with his job. What is the point of pursuing him for a personal apology? He may have been dealt with and he may not, but for my own sanity I decided to let the matter go and escalate accordingly should I get further trouble.I have nothing to gain by following him and asking him to apologies for what happened a couple of months before.

Don't get me wrong. It is entirely your choice and I respect your choice whichever way you decide. I just think it is a waste of time pursuing this further.

 

[amateur]

100% positive,.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=moSFlvxnbgk

 

[VauxhallandI]

I really don't understand this obsession with a personal apology. The company has apologised on the employee's behalf so it has been acknowledged that what happened was unacceptable.

The only thing to be gained is a bit of pride that "I was right". There is no guarantee even if the employee acknowledged that he had been spoken to about that matter he was not simply fobbing you off (as part of conflict avoidance).

I for one am glad that data protection legislation in this country prevents details of disciplinary actions being made public.

So again, I ask, what is to be gained by wanting a personal apology apart from a bit of pride? Life is too short to worried about things like this. No one has lost out. Let it go.

As an example, I had the police called on me by a TM once, and it was acknowledged by the company that what happened was unreasonable and suitable training would be given. I didn't go chasing after the guy the next time I saw him. I simply let him get on with his job. What is the point of pursuing him for a personal apology? He may have been dealt with and he may not, but for my own sanity I decided to let the matter go and escalate accordingly should I get further trouble.I have nothing to gain by following him and asking him to apologies for what happened a couple of months before.

Don't get me wrong. It is entirely your choice and I respect your choice whichever way you decide. I just think it is a waste of time pursuing this further.

I hear what you and NewcastleDave are saying but I believe he sees him everyday so it is somewhat a different case?

When you add the power of the RoRA to the situation too it changes it from many other walks of life, you can't have it both ways.

 

[dakta]

Forgive my 2p but if an employee is a representative of the company, and they do something wrong, and the company issues an apology or informs you its otherwise dealt with, surely that's the end of it?

If you then try and pursue an apology from the person involved, then it's getting personal?

If I were a manager and had to speak to a member of staff about an issue they had with a customer, i'd expect to be putting the problem to bed - especially if the customer was informed that their complaint had been received and and an apology issued.

If I then found the customer then trying to raise the issue with the employee beyond this, i'd be watching closely because it would have a faint whiff of harassment?

Probably on my own with this opinion, but I just can't see why the employee has to be singled out, he made a mistake, company issued apology - fin?

 

[extendedpaul]

I feel I am being misunderstood here in some respects . To clarify...

I do not see this person every day, maybe once a fortnight. He was standing at the gateline on the day the initial incident occurred but it was his colleague who looked at my ticket and let me through. I made a statement of fact - gold card tickets are rejected before 10am - as he looked at the ticket. How this led to the other person to feel the need to speak to my wife about 5 minutes later I don't know. He may even thought he was doing me a favour if I was travelling with an invalid ticket and might encounter a RPI !

I have not had any confrontation with him whatsoever, just one brief exchange from the platform side after the gate was opened at 9.45 about five weeks ago. It was completely amicable and as I said I genuinely felt that he had not been informed of my complaint and had maybe forgotten all about the incident. I did feel he may wish to apologise but that is not saying I expected him to do so, just that is what I would have done in the circumstances.

I had almost decided to drop the matter when I opened the thread and was interested in the views of others. My dissatisfaction centres on the TOC who had invited me to correspond further if I wished to do so but then ignored me when I did. I am not going to e-mail them again. I should have received at least an acknowledgement from the TOC in the circumstances.

I would prefer this thread to be locked now if possible and will not be posting further.

 

[SussexMan]

I do not see this person every day, maybe once a fortnight.

Looks to me as if you are making the assumption that he recognised you when you spoke a second time.

 

[Fare-Cop]

I really don't understand this obsession with a personal apology. The company has apologised on the employee's behalf so it has been acknowledged that what happened was unacceptable.

Couldn't agree more,

This appears to start with a relatively minor irritation because of an error by rail company employee
Complaint about that raised with rail company
Complaint addressed by company and complainant given apology
End of story.

The trouble is that by trying to address the matter further with the employee no matter how 'amicably', after the company has dealt with it and apologised, the OP may appear to be seen as the 'aggressor' in a new minor conflict here.

It's always best to let old wounds heal, because picking at them often results in complications..

Let it go. Life's too short for petty grudges.

 

[319321]

With regards to criminal law, each employee is responsible for their own actions.