Merseyrail - unable to purchase ticket

[joke2711]

Not so much a dispute but thought I would share with Forum Members a particular travel scenario from Sunday.

Found out at short notice that I needed to travel to London on Sunday Evening so work booked me on the 18:47 service to Euston. As there was no time to have tickets sent, I was given a fast track reference to collect at Lime Street.

On Sunday I left from Manor Road so needed a ticket to Lime Street.
I got to Manor Road in plenty of time for the 1806 service to find the ticket office closed and totally locked up. Conscious of not travelling without a ticket I went to the help point. The gentleman who answered the call informed me that the ticket office was open until 11:40pm. I told him again it was closed. He then instructed me to get a permit to travel ticket so I asked him where from? He then told me to buy on the train to which I replied I couldn't so that was the end of that conversation.

I also had considerable luggage and display stands with me so when the train arrived I asked the guard what I should do, but also pointing out that I still had tickets to collect at Lime Street for my onward journey. He looked at my luggage and agreed that I needed to use the Lift at Lime Street thus avoiding the ticket office. After a few moments he stated "there is nothing you can do and don't worry about it". Fortunately when I exited the lift at Lime Street there was no revenue present (one of there favourite haunts) so I collected my tickets from the Virgin ticket machine and went on my merry way.

It has got me wondering whether this is correct. I couldn't use the escalators with the luggage I had, didn't have time to walk all the way back to Merseyrail to buy the damn ticket with having to collect a ticket still and wondered what would have happened if I had been challenged at Lime Street. I did take a picture of the closed ticket office at Manor Road but I had exited there travel network with the purchase of a ticket!

 

[bb21]

Could be a good question to ask Merseyrail.

 

[joke2711]

Could be a good question to ask Merseyrail.

good point ... duly asked ...

 

[reb0118]

I think that whilst you still have a duty to purchase a ticket that is all you are liable for. Your actions, to me at least, have demonstrated that you had no intention to avoid your fare.

Was your pre booked ticket a through one from Manor Road or did you pick up a local single at Lime Street?

 

[joke2711]

I think that whilst you still have a duty to purchase a ticket that is all you are liable for. Your actions, to me at least, have demonstrated to me that you had no intention to avoid your fare.

Was your pre booked ticket a through one from Manor Road or did you pick up a local single at Lime Street?

As there are no ticket collection facilities locally, I had to travel to London on a LIV -EUS single and purchase (try) a single MNR to LIV on Sunday. My return though was EUS-MNR.

 

[reb0118]

As there are no ticket collection facilities locally

Not really a lot you can do in the circumstances.

 

[Loop & Link]

*Deleted*

 

[gray1404]

I guess you could have still gone to the booking office at Lime Street (be that upper or lower level) to pay for the ticket - of even do it at Euston as you would not actually have finished your journey until then. haha (but this is by the by)

What is of a huge concern here is the information you were given at the help point. I would ask that you please take this up with Merseyrail! (or TF if they don't respond well). I would take issue with: -

1. why the control centre didn't tell you that the ticket office was closed. They told you incorrectly it was open until gone 11. Clearly they had no knowlege of this planned closure.

2. why you were advised to buy a permit to travel when such as thing was not possible to buy on Merseyrail. Clearly the control centre do not know that Merseyrail do not issue such.

3. The fact the person told you to buy a ticket on the train when Merseyrail guards are not revenue closed. Again, the control centre doesn't know anything about the TOC they are representing.

Makes me wonder if Merseyrail, given their small size, have another TOC (possibly Northern) answer their help points for them.....

What if a customer had have called with something more serious. Such as a late night arrival into Liverpool South Parkway due to a delay of an incoming service and needed assistance so as to avoid being left stranded.

This is not an acceptable level of service so please do take this up with Merseyrail.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Makes me wonder if Merseyrail, given their small size, have another TOC (possibly Northern) answer their help points for them.....

Do TOCs answer help points? I have little experience of them, but I'm pretty sure when I used one at Lichfield Trent Valley some years ago, it was answered by National Rail Enquiries callcentre? (I posed this same question elsewhere recently but don't recall if we got an answer...)

 

[Loop & Link]

*Deleted*

 

[CharlieSpotted]

It is a National Rail Enquiries centre, as when I test the help points this is who I go through to. It used to go through to the MEC though, however.

Which explains the useless information given to our OP here.

 

[gray1404]

It also explains how they were giving the exact closing time of the booking office i.e. looked up the station info page and then gave general information about getting a ticket on the train etc... I do believe ME guards should be revenue trained like they used to be. I notice they go though the train checking tickets, which I think is pointless because they just tell a customer without one about the RPIs being able to issue a PF.

Totally pointless the help point going through to NRE. I wonder if it would be the same if you pressed the other button for emergency would put you through the someone else just as pointless.

I Tweeted ME this afternoon to ask who answers their help points on station platforms but they didn't respond.

 

[cool110]

I wonder if it would be the same if you pressed the other button for emergency would put you through the someone else just as pointless.

That often goes through to 999.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

That often goes through to 999.

I can confirm this. For some time, the buttons on the help point at Lichfield Trent Valley were wired the wrong way around. This was years back. It's a shock when you press the information button and someone shouts "What is the nature of your emergency?" back.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Yes, I thought it was NRE. Which is utterly pointless, as the kind of help people want on platforms is not usually a timetable or fares enquiry, as both of these are normally readily available at stations.

 

[razor89]

I do believe ME guards should be revenue trained like they used to be. I notice they go though the train checking tickets, which I think is pointless because they just tell a customer without one about the RPIs being able to issue a PF.

Totally pointless the help point going through to NRE. I wonder if it would be the same if you pressed the other button for emergency would put you through the someone else just as pointless.

As I understand it, when ME guards come across a case of ticketless travel, they feed this back to the Revenue Protection department, providing useful intelligence which allows their officers to be in the right place at the right time to catch repeat offenders. So not entirely pointless.

I agree about the help points. They were actually useful back when they went through to someone that actually knows and works in the local area.

 

[James H]

I have twice used help points at station - Marlow and Horley - and on both occasions the person at the other end has been worse than useless and had no knowledge whatsoever of the local circumstances.

They have only been able to give me information from the NRE website which I could have looked up myself.

 

[sheff1]

My experience of 'help' points is the same - you get through to someone with limited grasp of English and even less grasp of the geography of GB railways.

An exception is* Scotrail where you talk to someone who fully understands the issue and is able to advise / authorise appropriate remedial action.

* was ? - I have not used one since Abellio took over

 

[clagmonster]

TPE and EMT help points use to put you through to somebody in the companies control room. With the latter, one problem at a station with a PERTIS machine was that they didn't have access to fares data.

 

[reb0118]

An exception is* Scotrail where you talk to someone who fully understands the issue and is able to advise / authorise appropriate remedial action.

* was ? - I have not used one since Abellio took over

You will still be put through to our CCTV control rooms at Dunfermline (Network) or Paisley (Strathclyde & Environs). As I have highlighted in your post above they still have the authority to make customer service decisions.

 

[Bletchleyite]

TPE and EMT help points use to put you through to somebody in the companies control room. With the latter, one problem at a station with a PERTIS machine was that they didn't have access to fares data.

Who ever puts more than 5p in a PERTIS?

 

[CharlieSpotted]

Who ever puts more than 5p in a PERTIS?

When I had to use them, some years ago, I would always put the correct fare in if I had it...

 

[WillPS]

I didn't even realise EMT had stations with PERTIS machines. Where abouts was this?

 

[sheff1]

You will still be put through to our CCTV control rooms at Dunfermline (Network) or Paisley (Strathclyde & Environs). As I have highlighted in your post above they still have the authority to make customer service decisions.

Good to hear. A pity the same standards aren't mandated in England & Wales.

 

[clagmonster]

I didn't even realise EMT had stations with PERTIS machines. Where abouts was this?

Sileby the station is question. Syston also had one. I'm not sure of the present position, this is going back a couple of years.

 

[Bletchleyite]

When I had to use them, some years ago, I would always put the correct fare in if I had it...

I suppose it'd depend how you intended to pay, bearing in mind that the most important role of PERTIS is to prove you started your journey from a station with no proper ticketing facilities, rather than to actually collect the fare (though if paying cash it also serves that function).

 

[CharlieSpotted]

I suppose it'd depend how you intended to pay, bearing in mind that the most important role of PERTIS is to prove you started your journey from a station with no proper ticketing facilities, rather than to actually collect the fare (though if paying cash it also serves that function).

I always understood (and I'm sure there were signs to this effect) that you should pay as close as possible to the actual fare?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I always understood (and I'm sure there were signs to this effect) that you should pay as close as possible to the actual fare?

This I suppose depends on your take on the debate as to whether you must choose payment method based on the railway's convenience or your own. OT for this thread though I guess.

 

[joke2711]

My response from Merseyrail. I suppose this is fair enough if the do what they say they will do ... however I didn't purchase a ticket as time didn't allow!

Thank you for your e-mail.

I was very sorry to learn about the recent incident on our network. As you may be aware, we have recently introduced assistance/help points to all stations across our network. As with many other operators, the help points at our surface stations are answered by National Rail Enquiries who provide an information service for all train companies. The additional service has been welcomed by many customers as it can provide useful information and be an added security aid.

I can only apologise for the incorrect information provided. We are still developing the system and your feedback is very helpful. Your comments about the incorrect information have been forwarded to the relevant manager so that he can take this up with National Rail Enquiries. We will also look at placing posters in station booking office windows advising customers what to do if a station is unstaffed such as on this occasion. If a station is unstaffed, all our Ticket Inspectors and Security Officers are advised and Penalty Fares are not issued. In such circumstances, customers are asked to purchase a valid ticket at the first opportunity as you did.

The longer established help points at our underground stations are answered by our own Control Centre. We do not currently have the resources for all station help points to be directed there but this will be monitored. The emergency buttons on the surface help points are answered by our own local security centre.

Thank you for bringing this matter to our attention, and please accept my apologies for any inconvenience caused.

 

[185]

Wonder if they (as required) told the PTE it was shut? Northern have a habit of 'accidentally forgetting'.