Rugby Union

[richw]

Yeah, with Andy picking the team...

If some of the stories coming out of the players are true, that could well be the case.

 

[Butts]

Blimey this Scotland v Samoa match is a try/penalty fest, certainly an exciting 1st half !!! - Samoa 26-23 ahead.

Both sides defences are non-existent

Who knows what the second half will produce

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Blimey this Scotland v Samoa match is a try/penalty fest, certainly an exciting 1st half !!! - Samoa 26-23 ahead.

Both sides defences are non-existent

Who knows what the second half will produce

Far too many penalties given away by Samoa in the second half.

Scotland won by a margin of three points.

 

[Butts]

Far too many penalties given away by Samoa in the second half.

Scotland won by a margin of three points.

But who would be better in the quarter final for us ?

"Greenbacks Taffs" or The Aussies ?

Probably largely irrelevant as either will make mincemeat of us

 

[backontrack]

Will Genia sin-binned for ten minutes. Australia lead 12-6.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Now, has Taulupe Faletau grounded it? If he has, Wales have five points...
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Now that was a try. I heavily disagree with the referee's decision.

 

[Kite159]

All Southern based teams in the semi-finals.

Scotland seemed to give the Aussies a run (going by the 35-34 scoreline, with the Aussies winning due to a dodgy penalty decision), Ireland going out to Argentina is surprising

 

[backontrack]

So close. Oh, so very very close.

Australia 35-34 Scotland (Foley penalty inside last minute)

 

[richw]

All Southern based teams in the semi-finals.

Scotland seemed to give the Aussies a run (going by the 35-34 scoreline, with the Aussies winning due to a dodgy penalty decision), Ireland going out to Argentina is surprising

Having watched a lot of the Rugby Championship I am not surprised by Argentina. They are of much higher quality since they joined the championship. Playing NZ, Aus and SA couple of times a year has moved them on to be unrecognisable from several years back.

 

[Hornet]

All Southern based teams in the semi-finals.

Scotland seemed to give the Aussies a run (going by the 35-34 scoreline, with the Aussies winning due to a dodgy penalty decision), Ireland going out to Argentina is surprising

Dodgy penalty decision??? It was a perfectly correct penalty decision. The Scottish player handled the ball in an offside position. Therefore the decision to award the penalty to Australia was the correct decision. Them's the Rules.

 

[richw]

Dodgy penalty decision??? It was a perfectly correct penalty decision. The Scottish player handled the ball in an offside position. Therefore the decision to award the penalty to Australia was the correct decision. Them's the Rules.

As a qualified Ref (albeit gone back to playing), it was the correct decision. He was in an offside position regardless of whether the opposition player touched it in between.

 

[Butts]

As a qualified Ref (albeit gone back to playing), it was the correct decision. He was in an offside position regardless of whether the opposition player touched it in between.

Would you both have been saying that if it had been England playing Australia?

Seriously a great show by Scotland , their best performance in many a year.

 

[richw]

Would you both have been saying that if it had been England playing Australia?

Seriously a great show by Scotland , their best performance in many a year.

From my ref hat, yes. From my fan point of view no :roll:

Scotland probably the best northern hemisphere performers this world cup.

This evening I had a sudden recall I got Argentina in my work's sweep stake, so still have an interest in the tournament!

 

[Hornet]

Would you both have been saying that if it had been England playing Australia?

Seriously a great show by Scotland , their best performance in many a year.

As an Ireland fan I have no comment.

 

[backontrack]

And the worse thing is that Scotland could have got into the final. Argentina would have been beatable.

Definitely not a penalty, Hogg was tackled off the ball before the offside. It should have been a scrum in any case.

 

[tony_mac]

As a qualified Ref (albeit gone back to playing), it was the correct decision. He was in an offside position regardless of whether the opposition player touched it in between.

I'm not sure how that ties in with Law 11.3 c

When an opponent intentionally touches the ball but does not catch it, the offside player is put onside

 

[ainsworth74]

No article to link to yet but BBC News just announced that head of world Rugby has confirmed that full review into the refereeing of the Australia - Scotland match including the incident which gave Australia a penalty.

 

[Tetchytyke]

As a qualified Ref (albeit gone back to playing), it was the correct decision. He was in an offside position regardless of whether the opposition player touched it in between.

I'd agree he was offside. But as it hit an Australian shoulder there's a definite argument that it was an unintentional offside, in which case there should have been a scrum to Australia not a penalty kick. With the way it was going I'd have fancied us to score in the last three minutes anyway.

The yellow card was the deciding factor for me; we put ten points on Scotland whilst they had a player off. And it was never a yellow card in a million years.

I'm glad we're through, although on that performance I think Argentina could well beat us. But it's a shame to win in such a way.

This isn't the first time Joubert has been this incompetent, either. Look at how he gifted the Kiwis the 2011 World Cup. He should have been sacked after that performance, never mind this one.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

No article to link to yet but BBC News just announced that head of world Rugby has confirmed that full review into the refereeing of the Australia - Scotland match including the incident which gave Australia a penalty.

Is there any precedent for the result to be changed in such a retrospective situation as this?

 

[backontrack]

Is there any precedent for the result to be changed in such a retrospective situation as this?

I tell you what, I hope so.

 

[Tetchytyke]

Is there any precedent for the result to be changed in such a retrospective situation as this?

In rugby union no, although there was a case in April where the last 18 seconds of the England women's U19 qualifier against Norway was replayed after the referee screwed up a penalty. England took the penalty again, scored it, and qualified at the expense of Norway.

I don't see that it is as simple as changing the result; there was three minutes left, we'd have had head and feed at the scrum, and it's perfectly likely we'd have scored a try or a drop goal in that time.

 

[richw]

Breaking news on BBC

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/rugby-union/34576756

Rugby World Cup 2015: 'Craig Joubert wrong to award penalty'

Referee Craig Joubert was wrong to award a last-minute penalty against Scotland in their World Cup quarter-final defeat by Australia at Twickenham, says World Rugby.

More to follow.

 

[Oswyntail]

Is there any precedent for the result to be changed in such a retrospective situation as this?

I absolutely hope not. If results, in any sport, can be revisited because a decision - reached in the speed of the game - caused uproar, we may as well just give up. There is enough expert opinion behind several interpretation of what Joubert was required to do for no one to be right, and everyone to be right. Even with super slo-mo playback there is NO clear evidence. And if the incident had happened in the fifth minute, it would have been a talking point, no more, while having just as much effect on the result.
We must let officials officiate.
[And if World Rugby say otherwise, we can say goodbye to that sport]

 

[Johnuk123]

Everybody watching the replays on tv could see it wasn't a penalty although the referee has to make a split second call and it was a difficult one.

Unfortunately World Rugby can't do anything for Scotland, the match result will stand and Australia will go on by default.

 

[Hornet]

The Referee is the final arbiter in this particular case. He saw it as a penalty and gave it. The Touchjudge may have had an input if he had seen something different. As there was no foul play the TMO could not have got involved. (The TMO can only check for the validity of the act of scoring a try, and if there is foul play on a player, ie neck rolls, leading with the head/shoulder, a high tackle, etc). Joubert's view may have been obscured, so as to not see the ball glance off the Aussie player's shoulder. He gave a split second decision which he considered correct. End of.

The Welsh scored a Try against Ireland with the wrong ball, (another South African Ref in charge of that game. Check the Nationality of the Touchjudge). That incident should have gone to the TMO.

"South African referee Jonathan Kaplan stands accused of an ‘indefensible’ blunder in awarding Wales the try which promises to earn them an extra £750,000 in prize money.
The accusation over the wrong-ball row comes not from the aggrieved Irish camp but from retired English referee ‘Fearless’ Fred Howard, whose nickname reflects his record for sending off more players in internationals than any other official.
His attack on Kaplan, the world’s most-capped Test referee, could force the Six Nations into issuing a formal apology.
Even Wales concede that Mike Phillips’ solo blindside try ought not to have been allowed because it broke the law over the taking of a quick line-out.
The officials failed to spot a double illegality behind the score which enabled Wales to secure the win they deserved and head to Paris in pursuit of £3million as runners-up instead of £2.25m for finishing third.
Law 19, section two, clause C states: ‘For a quick throw-in, the player must use the ball that went into touch. A quick throw-in is not permitted if another person has touched the ball apart from the player throwing it in.’ That a ball-boy handed Wales hooker Matthew Rees a different ball is not in dispute despite the referee and one of his assistants allowing the subsequent try to stand.
‘How they could get that wrong is indefensible,’ said Howard, at 60 still involved in the Six Nations as an analyst. ‘The ball-boy clearly used a ball which was not the one that Ireland had kicked into touch because that went into the crowd. As soon as that happened, there was no question of Wales being allowed to take a quick throw.
‘That’s the mindset of every referee every time a ball lands in touch. You say to yourself, “That’s the end of any quick throw. Now concentrate on the line-out.” The referee cannot blame his touch judge. If he did, it would be a total cop-out.
‘It’s unbelievable that he missed it. It was a bog-standard decision for the referee and the try which came from it had a huge effect on the result. It was so obvious what had happened that there was never any question in my mind about it being referred to the video referee.’
Despite technology being limited to in-goal decisions, Kaplan could have asked the television match official, Geoff Warren, of England: ‘Is there any reason why I cannot award the try?’ He did not do so but did ask his assistant, Peter Allan, of Scotland, whether the same ball had been used for the throw.
His answer in the affirmative was enough for Kaplan to award the try and ignore heated protests from Irish players urging him to go upstairs for an action replay.
The 44-year-old from Durban, who has a degree in psychology and a 14-year Test career, probably wishes he had, given the furore over an incident which will renew the clamour for more sensible use of the videotape.
‘We were robbed,’ said Ireland skipper Brian O’Driscoll. ‘You have a service available to cover all bases. That’s what the TMO is there for. What’s the point if you don’t use him?
‘Everyone is human and wrong calls are made the whole time. That one was a hugely illegitimate try which, in the end, has made all the difference between winning and losing.
‘Everyone in the stadium knew the ball had been touched by a ball-boy. It beggars belief. If I was in the wrong on something like that, I’d be embarrassed.’
Wales, galvanised by the luckiest of breaks into defending their line at the end as though their lives depended on it, got what they deserved at long last, a home win at the seventh attempt and, for those with long memories, belated compensation for Paul Dean’s winning knock-on try for Ireland at the Arms Park in 1987.
The Irish got what they deserved, too, for a strange second half made all the stranger by Ronan O’Gara’s withdrawal for Jonathan Sexton fully half an hour before the end."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/ru...sible-blunder-gifted-Wales-victory-Irish.html

 

[DarloRich]

IRB wont change the result.

What annoys me most is that despite clearly being robbed no one had the common decency to chase the ref down the tunnel and abuse him. What is wrong with these people? Where is Dean Windass when you need him?

 

[Johnuk123]

IRB wont change the result.

What annoys me most is that despite clearly being robbed no one had the common decency to chase the ref down the tunnel and abuse him. What is wrong with these people? Where is Dean Windass when you need him?

That's because rugby players are all gentlemen, Rooney would have chased him back to his dressing room and sat on him until he changed the result.

 

[Tetchytyke]

no one had the common decency to chase the ref down the tunnel and abuse him.

He was too quick for them. I've not seen someone run as fast in years.

I hope they sack Joubert. They should have done it in 2011 after his man of the match performance for New Zealand, but better late than never eh?

 

[Hornet]

He was too quick for them. I've not seen someone run as fast in years.

I hope they sack Joubert. They should have done it in 2011 after his man of the match performance for New Zealand, but better late than never eh?

Joubert is no worse than Wayne Barnes (Missed forward pass leading to a try in the France v New Zealand RWC Q/F 2007), or Steve Walsh (Abusing Shane Horgan in a Lions v New Zealand Maori game in 2005). He is much better than a couple of Irish referees, (George Clancy and the horrendous Peter Fitzgibbon).

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Aviva Premiership

Sale Sharks 27...Worcester 13

Fortunately Sale managed to throw off the shell-shock of being thrashed in their first match of this season and outscored Worcester by four tries to one.

 

[Butts]

Does anyone know why Rugby Internationals (and indeed Cricket ones) are referred to as Test Matches, whilst similar football games are not ?