Transport Investigations and settling out of court

[Domey]

Hi everyone, let me get the fact that I know I've been a bit of a dumbass here out of the way first.

Long story short I boarded the train at Pyle, heading towards Cardiff Central. When asking for ticket at central I mistakenly gave the station as Bridgend. Was called out on it and written up, now I'm looking at court proceedings.

Mistake 1: Not buying a ticket on the train. I did attempt to flag a conductor down but he didn't hear, or misheard, me as the train was very busy. I didn't chase him down as I thought I could just buy one at the station.

Mistake 2: Giving the wrong station of origin. Can't excuse myself here, it was just absent mindedness. These are the two stations I travel from most and just confused them.

Other, hopefully mitigating factors:

• I know Bridgend has barriers, I've travelled from there often. If I was deliberately avoiding the fare, it would make no sense for me to choose this station. Also, the 'saving' I'd make in terms of the fare could not be smaller.
• It's a first offence
• I didn't do anything (else) stupid like give false details etc. I've cooperated fully with the process, and didn't giver the inspector any hassle.
• My girlfriend who was travelling with me at the time can vouch for my attempt to buy a ticket. She was also interviewed, though in a more casual way.
• In my correspondence with them I've apologised, and said that while I did not intentionally avoid the fare, I am happy to recompense the rail company.

Despite this the company(Transport Investigations Limited on behalf of ATW) apparently sees no reason it shouldn't take me to court, and are making an application for the issue of a summons. I'm not challenging the fact I gave the incorrect station, I just contest the assertion it was intentional. I want this over as quickly as possible, but I really want to avoid a criminal record. I'll pay whatever they ask (within my means, obviously).

My questions are: is there any incentive for them to take this to court instead of settling? I know a settlement can be agreed right up until the last minute, does anyone else have experience of a TIL settlement? Do these companies see discussion of settlements as a way of 'buying my way out' of the offence? If they think I'm doing that, is there anything I can do?

Any advice appreciated, please ask if you need more details. I've tried to keep it on the brief side as I've been searching the forums and I know you guys read a lot of these stories.

 

[bb21]

If you are taken to court under the Regulation of Railways Act for fare evasion, "intent" will be derived from interpretation of your actions, not by what was going on in your head, and I think the act of asking for a short fare is usually interpreted as pretty strong evidence that "intent" was there.

I just had a look and the difference in fare is pretty substantial in percentage terms, with Single/Day Return/Off-Peak Day Return being £6.90/£8.80/£8.10 from Pyle, and those from Bridgend being £4.80/£6.90/£5.90, not that it is particularly relevant to the proceedings.

I doubt your girlfriend will be seen as an impartial witness. Did your girlfriend have a ticket with her or was she written up too?

The other things you have done in the aftermath of the incident are fine imo as I can't see anything you have done wrong in your dealings. Sometimes offers to settle are not accepted.

Most importantly have they said what legislation they are using?

 

[455driver]

If you didn't intend to avoid the (correct) fare why did you give the wrong (closer) station?

 

[gray1404]

I shall be brief here due to the time in the morning (post 3am) but you are correct that it is possible to reach on Out of Court Settlement right up until the time the case is being heard in Court. The company is under no duty whatsoever to offer you such a settlement but at the same time, there would be nothing wrong with you requesting such. Either yourself or someone acting on your behalf can do this. Have you received a Summons yet? If so, I think it would be better if someone acting on your behalf (such as a lawyer) spoke to them on your behalf. I am sure others on here will advise further.

Have you had any issues like this with Arriva Trains Wales before?

 

[najaB]

The other things you have done in the aftermath of the incident are fine imo as I can't see anything you have done wrong in your dealings. Sometimes offers to settle are not accepted.

Most importantly have they said what legislation they are using?

According to the NRE website Pyle is unstaffed and has no TVM so it can only realistically be under the RoRA.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

If you are taken to court under the Regulation of Railways Act for fare evasion, "intent" will be derived from interpretation of your actions, not by what was going on in your head, and I think the act of asking for a short fare is usually interpreted as pretty strong evidence that "intent" was there.

That is correct.

Mistake 2: Giving the wrong station of origin. Can't excuse myself here, it was just absent mindedness. These are the two stations I travel from most and just confused them.

When you have te opportunity to explain your actions, you could indeed state that you confused the names of the two stations, but if you do, I strongly urge you to consider these facts:

Asking for a 'short fare' has been practiced by hundreds of passengers every day for as long as the railways have been running. The reveue checks are not entirely random, but evidence-based, so will be detecting travel from stations where head counts significantly exceed ticket sales.

For a claim of 'absent mindedness' to be persuasive, the investigating officer reading your letter will be considering that seven coincidences will have to have arisen -

- The passenger is a regular traveller between the 2 stations (and so should be familiar with the station names);
- This is a unique occasion on which the passenger 'forgot' to buy a ticket or was 'running late'.
- This is a unique occasion on which there is a revenue check at a different, intermediate station (which is closer to the destination).
- This is a unique occasion on which there is also a revenue check at the destination station (and the passenger is consequently unable to produce a valid ticket for inspection and is asked about their journey).
- This is an exceptional occasion where the passenger fails to recollect where they boarded the train.
- On questionning, the ticketless passenger does remember a station name but is the name of that intermediate station they'd just passed through, where the revenue check is taking place (the intermediate station closer to the destination). (or perhaps deliberately states the name of the other station).
- The fare from the named station is lower than the fare from the station at the actual start of their journey.

All seven of these occuring simultaneously might be seen as a question of probabilities, and for a prosecution to suceed, it would have to reach the standard of evidence which is 'beyond all reasonable doubt'.
One of the cases often taken as an authority in prosecuting 'short fareing' is Bremme v Dubery [1964].

Do you fancy your luck at pleading innocence and that you were 'absent minded'?

 

[Domey]

If you are taken to court under the Regulation of Railways Act for fare evasion, "intent" will be derived from interpretation of your actions, not by what was going on in your head, and I think the act of asking for a short fare is usually interpreted as pretty strong evidence that "intent" was there.

Thanks for that clarification, I thought there might be some legal definition of intent that I was missing.

I just had a look and the difference in fare is pretty substantial in percentage terms, with Single/Day Return/Off-Peak Day Return being £6.90/£8.80/£8.10 from Pyle, and those from Bridgend being £4.80/£6.90/£5.90, not that it is particularly relevant to the proceedings.

I hadn’t considered it in percentage terms. I know that saying “If I was going to cheat the system, I’d have been a bit more clever about it” isn’t much of an argument, but I do think the fact that Bridgend is the very next station, and also has barriers, suggests that I made and honest mistake.

I doubt your girlfriend will be seen as an impartial witness. Did your girlfriend have a ticket with her or was she written up too?

She was behind me in the queue, and because she didn’t ask for a ticket she was just able to buy the correct one. She was asked to confirm we had travelled from Pyle.

If you didn't intend to avoid the (correct) fare why did you give the wrong (closer) station?

I wish I had a more comprehensive and dignified answer for you, but it was just absent mindedness on my part. They’re just the two stations I used most.

I shall be brief here due to the time in the morning (post 3am) but you are correct that it is possible to reach on Out of Court Settlement right up until the time the case is being heard in Court. The company is under no duty whatsoever to offer you such a settlement but at the same time, there would be nothing wrong with you requesting such. Either yourself or someone acting on your behalf can do this. Have you received a Summons yet? If so, I think it would be better if someone acting on your behalf (such as a lawyer) spoke to them on your behalf. I am sure others on here will advise further.

Have you had any issues like this with Arriva Trains Wales before?

I intend to seek legal advice as soon as I get a date through. Never had any trouble with Arriva or anyone else before. I know they don’t have to offer a settlement, but I would have thought that it would be better for them to get reimbursed as quickly as possible. I’m not sure what benefit they get from me having a criminal record. Thanks for replying in the early hours by the way, this whole issue has been keeping me up at night so I was reading your responses at 4am.

For a claim of 'absent mindedness' to be persuasive, the investigating officer reading your letter will be considering that seven coincidences will have to have arisen -

- The passenger is a regular traveller between the 2 stations (and so should be familiar with the station names);
- This is a unique occasion on which the passenger 'forgot' to buy a ticket or was 'running late'.

I didn’t forget nor was I running late. There are no facilities at Pyle station to buy a ticket, so I would have had to get one on the train. I didn’t, because of a miscommunication which I thought would be easily rectified at the station. This mistake was compounded by my giving the wrong station.

- This is a unique occasion on which there is a revenue check at a different, intermediate station (which is closer to the destination).
- This is a unique occasion on which there is also a revenue check at the destination station (and the passenger is consequently unable to produce a valid ticket for inspection and is asked about their journey).

I don’t think I follow how these are unique situations? Sorry if I’m being dense here.

- This is an exceptional occasion where the passenger fails to recollect where they boarded the train.
- On questionning, the ticketless passenger does remember a station name but is the name of that intermediate station they'd just passed through, where the revenue check is taking place (the intermediate station closer to the destination). (or perhaps deliberately states the name of the other station).
- The fare from the named station is lower than the fare from the station at the actual start of their journey.

Fair points. As soon as I realised my mistake I gave the correct station and was written up.

Do you fancy your luck at pleading innocence and that you were 'absent minded'?

Short answer: no. I know there was no ‘intent’ (by the common definition of the word) on my part, but given the series of events on the day I don’t see how I could prove this anyway.

I appreciate your comments about fare evasion, and I know why they have to do what they are doing. What I’m finding really upsetting is that having made this mistake(s) I’ve tried my hardest to make things right. Cooperating with the process, apologising, offering to pay etc. I know they have no obligation to, but I think I’ve given ATW every reason there is for offering a settlement, and can’t understand why they won’t accept one. Like I said, my main question is: Is there any reason why taking me to court to get my money is better for them than me just giving them my money? It seems the result for them will be the same either way, but one result for me could have massive repercussions for me throughout my life.

I also get that some of you won’t believe me, all I ask is that you consider the possibility that I’m telling the truth.

Is it worth me contacting ATW directly and grovelling?

Thanks for all your responses.

 

[crehld]

I appreciate your comments about fare evasion, and I know why they have to do what they are doing. What I’m finding really upsetting is that having made this mistake(s) I’ve tried my hardest to make things right. Cooperating with the process, apologising, offering to pay etc. I know they have no obligation to, but I think I’ve given ATW every reason there is for offering a settlement, and can’t understand why they won’t accept one. Like I said, my main question is: Is there any reason why taking me to court to get my money is better for them than me just giving them my money? It seems the result for them will be the same either way, but one result for me could have massive repercussions for me throughout my life.

This is where my argument that TOCs should not be permitted to pursue prosecutions privately and that responsibility should be given to some sort of statutory prosecuting authority for railway offences comes into play. This way some sort of 'public interest' criteria could apply to prosecutions. But that's another topic

I also get that some of you won’t believe me, all I ask is that you consider the possibility that I’m telling the truth.

I share your disappointment - unfortunately some posters on this sub-forum aren't open to this possibility.

Is it worth me contacting ATW directly and grovelling?

You could try writing a letter. Keep it short, concise and focused on the facts. Another poster who was being pursued by ATW and Travel Investigations Ltd (for not purchasing a ticket) had some success in avoiding court action by writing a well crafted letter (although your circumstances are not immediately transferable, nor should it be taken as an indicator of success). See here: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=119321

 

[najaB]

I also get that some of you won’t believe me, all I ask is that you consider the possibility that I’m telling the truth.

There is no way for me to know if you are telling the truth or not - only you know that - but any advice I offer is made on the assumption that you are being truthful. Unfortunately, it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things as any potential prosecution is strictly based on what actually happened on the day - boarded a train at Pyle, asked for a ticket from Bridgend - why you did it doesn't really make a difference.

 

[gray1404]

I'm wondering what other members here think, does anyone think it is worth the OP (or someone maybe on their behalf like a CAB Office) contacting the TIL to request an out of court settlement given this is their first offence with Arriva? I would be interested to know what others think....? To me this would be the best way forward.

 

[221129]

They can obviously ask, but it is by no means guaranteed.

 

[najaB]

To me this would be the best way forward.

I'd go one further and say that it is the only logical course of action at this point.

 

[455driver]

I'm wondering what other members here think, does anyone think it is worth the OP (or someone maybe on their behalf like a CAB Office) contacting the TIL to request an out of court settlement given this is their first offence with Arriva? I would be interested to know what others think....? To me this would be the best way forward.

That would show desperation and could possibly make them take the OP to court, its better to follow the procedure and wait to be contacted.

Edit-
For the OP

Have you already been contacted and replied back to them?
If so (and they have sent you a summons outlining what you are actually being charged with in court) can you tell us please.
If you have replied and they haven't contacted you a second time then they have not decided what they are going to do yet so any further contact would be premature at this stage.

 

[najaB]

That would show desperation and could possibly make them take the OP to court, its better to follow the procedure and wait to be contacted.

The way I read it the OP has already been contacted, put across his side of things, had that rejected and now they are waiting for the summons to arrive.

 

[StarCrossing]

I know they don’t have to offer a settlement, but I would have thought that it would be better for them to get reimbursed as quickly as possible. I’m not sure what benefit they get from me having a criminal record.

The possibility of getting a criminal record can be a good deterrent against fare evasion. There's an argument that taking you to court would pay off for them in the long run due to others deciding to pay the correct fare rather than risk get a criminal record. I think I've seen posters up in stations in Wales that tell you about local fare evaders who've been prosecuted, in an attempt to deter others.

I sounds like you've been unlucky if you truly did just say the wrong station name accidentally, but your mitigating factors are pretty weak, and unfortunately naming a station with a cheaper fare does make you look like a possible fare evader, whether you are one or not.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

. . . or an investigating officer who already has more general evidence of 'short faring' on the route.

My comments about circumstances being 'unique' or 'exceptional' were only to assist in understanding how such an investigator might interpret your momentary lapse. I assume that you are not permanently mixing up the names of the two stations, but instead you wanted to put over the impression that this was an exceptional lapse, which coincided with the revenue block etc etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I'm wondering what other members here think, does anyone think it is worth the OP (or someone maybe on their behalf like a CAB Office) contacting the TIL to request an out of court settlement given this is their first offence with Arriva? I would be interested to know what others think....? To me this would be the best way forward.

Having regard to the stage that this has reached already, then I'd say there is no risk attached to this suggestion other than the frustrating time it might take. A local Solicitor with general Criminal Defence work might even do better, due to the alleged procedural irregularities.

The OP might be quite capable of negotiating themselves, directly with the Prosecutor on the day of the hearing, but before the first case of the day is called.

 

[ainsworth74]

A local Solicitor with general Criminal Defence work might even do better.

Plus not all CABs will deal with Criminal law as it isn't something they're qualified to advise in unless they get specific funding from an organisation to provide Criminal law advice.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

Not even to attempt an O O C settlement?

I guess you're probably correct about that too.

 

[cuccir]

My recent experience with a CAB (on a non-rail related incident) was that they were able to provide a list of local recommended solicitors, including a couple with whom they had a deal getting you a priority meeting, but that was pretty much it with regards to legal advice.

 

[Domey]

Thanks again everyone for the responses so far, I just wanted to let you know I am still watching the thread and will respond more thoroughly this evening.

I'll try and let you guys know how it all ultimately turns out so you've got a thread to link to in future to say "Well look what happened to this [ruthless criminal/idiot/poor bugger]" (delete as appropriate).
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Difficult day yesterday, let a few more people in on the situation (parents, employer etc.) Now I'm just trying to steel myself for the worst here; what happens when I get the summons? What would the long term effects of a criminal record under this offence be?

They haven't specified the offence exactly, but have sent me 'Extracts from relevant legislations'. These are the National Railways Byelaws (2005) Byelaw 18, and the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

Tried ringing TIL, they aren't giving away anything over the phone though, which is to be expected. The person on the other end did say it might be worth sending a letter, though this is probably a fairly harmless thing to tell anyone who calls up.

I've been given the name of a solicitor who's an acquaintance of someone I work with. The solicitor told my colleague they might be able to 'sort this out in a phone call' .I've no doubt they're good, but to be honest this doesn't fill me with confidence. Earliest I can speak to them is Monday.

That would show desperation and could possibly make them take the OP to court, its better to follow the procedure and wait to be contacted.

Edit-
For the OP

Have you already been contacted and replied back to them?
If so (and they have sent you a summons outlining what you are actually being charged with in court) can you tell us please.
If you have replied and they haven't contacted you a second time then they have not decided what they are going to do yet so any further contact would be premature at this stage.

I've already had some correspondence with them. Basically outlined my position, apologised, asked them to consider settling. I am worried about looking desperate, but then again, I am. We're at the stage where 'An application for this issue of a summons may be made.'

The way I read it the OP has already been contacted, put across his side of things, had that rejected and now they are waiting for the summons to arrive.

Correct.

The possibility of getting a criminal record can be a good deterrent against fare evasion. There's an argument that taking you to court would pay off for them in the long run due to others deciding to pay the correct fare rather than risk get a criminal record. I think I've seen posters up in stations in Wales that tell you about local fare evaders who've been prosecuted, in an attempt to deter others.

I sounds like you've been unlucky if you truly did just say the wrong station name accidentally, but your mitigating factors are pretty weak, and unfortunately naming a station with a cheaper fare does make you look like a possible fare evader, whether you are one or not.

Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

Not a problem, thanks for replying. Now you mention it I'm sure I've seen those posters myself. I do have a sneaking suspicion I'm being made an example of.

From my point of view it is going to make me reconsider using trains full stop; at the end of the day I made a mistake and will now in all likelihood get a criminal record. If I should make a mistake again then who knows what could happen. Ironically, I'm probably more protected from legal recourse by speeding down the M4 at 110mph to get to Cardiff. Not that I would (or even could, given the state of my car.) From the look of other threads, I'd also have been better off not bothering to buy a ticket and chancing my arm at the barrier; it seems mistakes here are a lot more easily forgiven. Sorry for the rant.

. . . or an investigating officer who already has more general evidence of 'short faring' on the route.

My comments about circumstances being 'unique' or 'exceptional' were only to assist in understanding how such an investigator might interpret your momentary lapse. I assume that you are not permanently mixing up the names of the two stations, but instead you wanted to put over the impression that this was an exceptional lapse, which coincided with the revenue block etc etc

Ah I see what you mean. I don't think any of these instances are uncommon in and of themselves, but I see where they're coming from. The stars have aligned in a really unfortunate way for me.

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Having regard to the stage that this has reached already, then I'd say there is no risk attached to this suggestion other than the frustrating time it might take. A local Solicitor with general Criminal Defence work might even do better, due to the alleged procedural irregularities.

The OP might be quite capable of negotiating themselves, directly with the Prosecutor on the day of the hearing, but before the first case of the day is called.

The thought of negotiating with prosecutors before a hearing is quite a scary one! If I were to enter a guilty plea, could I still negotiate before the hearing? I know I don't have much of a leg to stand on, but if I can have a chance of not ruining my life it might be worth a shot.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

What would the long term effects of a criminal record under this offence be?

They haven't specified the offence exactly, but have sent me 'Extracts from relevant legislations'. These are the National Railways Byelaws (2005) Byelaw 18, and the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

The Byelaw offence does not result in a Criminal Record; the RoRA Ofence does. The correspondence you've received is simply a standard template letter to cover all suspected fare evaders.

I've been given the name of a solicitor who's an acquaintance of someone I work with. The solicitor told my colleague they might be able to 'sort this out in a phone call' .I've no doubt they're good, but to be honest this doesn't fill me with confidence. Earliest I can speak to them is Monday.

The important thing is to chose a solicitor who regularly does Criminal Defence work in the area of the Magistrates Court where this will be heard - I'll guess its West Hampshire Magistrates Court. That's more relevant than being known to a work colleague who has nothing to do with the matter in front of us!

We're at the stage where 'An application for this issue of a summons may be made.'

That's a long way from going to Court. It may be made. It may not.

I do have a sneaking suspicion I'm being made an example of.

Railway Companies have better things to do. They suffer staggering losses through fare evasion - the government drives hard bargains with these Companies, so they have to try to recover unpaid fares as best they can within the framework available to them. That includes prosecuting passengers who 'short fare'.[/QUOTE]

From my point of view it is going to make me reconsider using trains full stop; at the end of the day I made a mistake . . . .

I'm sure you don't need any help from me in choosing the most effective mode of travel. It would be odd, though, for a factor in selecting your chosen mode to be that it is not the most convenient option, but that you had in the past been accused of not paying for your preferred option when, in fact, you had been correctly accused of not paying for it.

The thought of negotiating with prosecutors before a hearing is quite a scary one! If I were to enter a guilty plea, could I still negotiate before the hearing? I know I don't have much of a leg to stand on, but if I can have a chance of not ruining my life it might be worth a shot.

You are NOT ruining your life. Let's get some perspective here! It's an unpaid train fare with (alleged) intent not to pay the proper fare.

If you don't feel able to negotiate with the Prosecutor then that is quite understandable. That's one of the best reasons why nearly every high street has an office of a local law firm who deal in Criminal Defence work. They would do it for you. That's their job. Day in, day out.

 

[Fare-Cop]

It's extremely rare for Dave to post an error in my experience, but reading the forum this morning I spotted this

The important thing is to chose a solicitor who regularly does Criminal Defence work in the area of the Magistrates Court where this will be heard - I'll guess its West Hampshire Magistrates Court. That's more relevant than being known to a work colleague who has nothing to do with the matter in front of us!

I hope he will not mind me pointing out that an incident reported relating to a journey Pyle-Bridgend-Cardiff would be extremely unlikely to be heard in West Hampstead Magistrates because Bridgend is the last stop before Cardiff coming from that direction.

Such a case would normally go to Cardiff Magistrates Court.

I think Dave had posted on another thread during the same visit to the forum and had inadvertently carried some of his thinking on that one into this thread.

The principle of seeking advice of an experienced criminal defence lawyer, local to the Court at which any Summons is returnable, is otherwise perfectly correct of course.

 

[DaveNewcastle]

It's extremely rare for Dave to post an error in my experience, but reading the forum this morning I spotted this . . . .

. . . an incident reported relating to a journey Pyle-Bridgend-Cardiff would be extremely unlikely to be heard in West Hampstead Magistrates . . . . . .

Apologies. I had been thinking of the location of another incident elsewhere. Thank you for the correction.

It's ironic to have applied the location of another incident to this one, considering the subject of the thead is a passenger misstating the name of a place!

 

[Romilly]

And doubly ironic that another Forum Member then turned "West Hampshire" into "West Hampstead".

 

[talltim]

Expect a letter from Transport Investigations on behalf of RailForums.co.uk regarding your stating of the wrong court.

 

[Fare-Cop]

And doubly ironic that another Forum Member then turned "West Hampshire" into "West Hampstead".

Lol.

Especially when it was this forum member who spotted the earlier hiccup!! Doh! See, we're all more than fallible

 

[455driver]

what happens when I get the summons? What would the long term effects of a criminal record under this offence be?

You come back on here, tell us what exactly they are charging you with (RoRA or bylaw) and you will receive more advice.

They haven't specified the offence exactly, but have sent me 'Extracts from relevant legislations'. These are the National Railways Byelaws (2005) Byelaw 18, and the Regulation of Railways Act 1889.

Was this the first letter (that you replied to) or is this a second letter which you received after replying?
If its the first then it is a standard letter telling you what the possibilities are and you have not actually been referred to Court.

 

[Domey]

I'm sure you don't need any help from me in choosing the most effective mode of travel. It would be odd, though, for a factor in selecting your chosen mode to be that it is not the most convenient option, but that you had in the past been accused of not paying for your preferred option when, in fact, you had been correctly accused of not paying for it.

The way I see it, once I have a criminal record then convenience becomes a secondary factor to risk.

It's extremely rare for Dave to post an error in my experience, but reading the forum this morning I spotted this

I hope he will not mind me pointing out that an incident reported relating to a journey Pyle-Bridgend-Cardiff would be extremely unlikely to be heard in West Hampstead Magistrates because Bridgend is the last stop before Cardiff coming from that direction.

Such a case would normally go to Cardiff Magistrates Court.

I think Dave had posted on another thread during the same visit to the forum and had inadvertently carried some of his thinking on that one into this thread.

The principle of seeking advice of an experienced criminal defence lawyer, local to the Court at which any Summons is returnable, is otherwise perfectly correct of course.

Thank you for pointing that out, I did panic a bit there. I'm on uncharted ground as it is.

Apologies. I had been thinking of the location of another incident elsewhere. Thank you for the correction.

It's ironic to have applied the location of another incident to this one, considering the subject of the thead is a passenger misstating the name of a place!

That's what they all say! I'll see you in court

You come back on here, tell us what exactly they are charging you with (RoRA or bylaw) and you will receive more advice.

Was this the first letter (that you replied to) or is this a second letter which you received after replying?
If its the first then it is a standard letter telling you what the possibilities are and you have not actually been referred to Court.

I've actually been sent about three letters, all of them along these lines though, with no new info coming through, each simply stating 'we see no reason why this case shouldn't proceed as previously stated.' or words to that effect. At this stage I think its safe to say I'm being referred.

The worst thing about this now is just the waiting. It's pointless going to a solicitor at the moment as I've had nothing through, but I'm worried I'm not doing all I can. I think I'll send one more, then just wait. If nothing else, it'll calm my nerves a little bit.

I know this isn't strictly relevant but if I'm coming across as tetchy its because I'm still fairly young, no house, early days in terms of a career etc. etc. and a record at this stage of my life looks like it would really cause problems for me before I've even started. Apologies If I'm coming across as a bit hyperbolic.

 

[jayne123]

I was in this exact situation 2 months ago, I wrote a letter to til admitting my wrongdoing, stating I was sorry for my foolishness and offering to pay any costs incurred, also reassuring til it would never happen again, I was offered an ok x settlement of 101 pound.
Can anyone please advise if this would still show on a dbs as a caution ?

 

[mikeg]

I was in this exact situation 2 months ago, I wrote a letter to til admitting my wrongdoing, stating I was sorry for my foolishness and offering to pay any costs incurred, also reassuring til it would never happen again, I was offered an ok x settlement of 101 pound.
Can anyone please advise if this would still show on a dbs as a caution ?

No it will not. If the police had issued a formal caution, that would be a different matter but out of court settlements are not recorded (other than that you would be on TIL's 'naughty list' and would likely not be dealt with so leniently were you to come to their attention again!)

To reiterate, out of court settlements are not and cannot be recorded by the disclosure and barring service.