ASLEF statement regarding possible expansion of DOO made September 24

[timbo58]

Update ASLEF Statement:

"So there is no dubiety it is the policy of my organisation that there will be no agreement to extend DOO anywhere and even if DCO is agreed by other trade unions we will not be agreeing this method of operation either."

- Mick Whelan, ASLE&F general secretary, 24 September 2015.

Unless FGW thinks it's capable of middle and junior managers to training drivers within the very near future it needs to look again at it's plans IMHO.

A sensible clearly stated decision, a bit late in coming but welcome nethertheless, at least for the guards grades.

BTW I'll keep calling them FGW in order to differentiate them from the vastly superior previous GWR.

 

[bnm]

Online source?

 

[timbo58]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?....300324.616146960&type=3&theater&notif_t=like

There you are -signed letter from Mick Whelan, I'm sure that's good enough.

It's also in RAIL magazine this month AFAIAA.

 

[bnm]

As for the letter itself it does nothing but re-affirm ASLEF's long standing position. I'm sure GWR and the DfT were well aware of that position prior to this re-affirmation.

Incidentally, I wonder what both the sender and receiver of the letter feel about it being posted on Facebook? I trust their permission was sought.

 

[timbo58]

I think it's significant in it's timing and the fact it is directly to the Bristol ASLEF branch, so whether Daft or FGW already knew about ASLEFS position, it stamps the fact they haven't changed their mind and any horse trading that they try with ASLEF to undermine RMTs dispute will get them precisely nowhere.

As to the permissions -I cannot comment, it was posted to me by a long standing ex colleague and union man of impeccable standing.

 

[GadgetMan]

Update ASLEF Statement:

"So there is no dubiety it is the policy of my organisation that there will be no agreement to extend DOO anywhere and even if DCO is agreed by other trade unions we will not be agreeing this method of operation either."

- Mick Whelan, ASLE&F general secretary, 24 September 2015.

Unless FGW thinks it's capable of middle and junior managers to training drivers within the very near future it needs to look again at it's plans IMHO.

A sensible clearly stated decision, a bit late in coming but welcome nethertheless, at least for the guards grades.

BTW I'll keep calling them FGW in order to differentiate them from the vastly superior previous GWR.

About time too. That should upset a few higher up in FGW and no doubt lots of DOO supporters on this forum

Hopefully other TOCs will have got the message too.

 

[Carlisle]

About time too. That should upset a few higher up in FGW and no doubt lots of DOO supporters on this forum

Hopefully other TOCs will have got the message too.

No it doesn't upset me at all, it just sadly confirms how power obsessed and out of step some railway trade unionists are with the modern world ,simples

 

[GadgetMan]

No it doesn't upset me at all, it just sadly confirms how power obsessed and out of step some railway trade unionists are with the modern world ,simples

Its not about power. Its about letting the Driver safely concentrate on Driving and the Guard concentrate on dispatch. Reduces the likelyhood of Platform Incidents.

As a Guard I experienced atleast 5 occasions where a Driver stopped short. As a Driver I have stopped short once.

Thats atleast 6 incidents of doors being released with carriages off the platform being AVOIDED that I know of in my 12 years. Had those trains been DOO, doors would've been released.

 

[HarleyDavidson]

The problem for ASLEF is that they probably have unwittingly got their drivers signed up to DOO-P as part of the DRI packages that were signed soon after privatisation.

So pulling the plug on any extensions to DOO-P maybe somewhat problematical legally.

 

[A-driver]

No it doesn't upset me at all, it just sadly confirms how power obsessed and out of step some railway trade unionists are with the modern world ,simples

Do you not understand that the driving grade workforce and their unions opposition to doo speaks volumes about the risks and safety case?!

It's got nothing to do with the modern world, it's entirely about cost cutting based on made up risk assessments to suit managements stance. "Simples".

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Do you not understand that the driving grade workforce and their unions opposition to doo speaks volumes about the risks and safety case?!
It's got nothing to do with the modern world, it's entirely about cost cutting based on made up risk assessments to suit managements stance. "Simples".

DCO doesn't seem to bother Virgin's Pendolino crews.
I also remember when ASLEF wouldn't contemplate single manning over 110mph, now normal practice.
I appreciate it's a bargaining stance.
Improved productivity is the aim (as it was under BR and would be under Corbyn-rail), and is the same in all industries.
Rail is not exempt.

 

[notadriver]

DCO doesn't seem to bother Virgin's Pendolino crews.

I also remember when ASLEF wouldn't contemplate single manning over 110mph, now normal practice.

I appreciate it's a bargaining stance.

Improved productivity is the aim (as it was under BR and would be under Corbyn-rail), and is the same in all industries.

Rail is not exempt.

Despatch of Pendolinos is under control of the guard not the driver.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

No it doesn't upset me at all, it just sadly confirms how power obsessed and out of step some railway trade unionists are with the modern world ,simples

Quite right. It's time we banned all Union supporters from the forum. In fact why stop there lets just ban all rail staff from the forum. Simples

 

[swt_passenger]

"No dubiety" Anachronistic or what... Do they actually talk like that amongst themselves?

 

[LateThanNever]

"No dubiety" Anachronistic or what... Do they actually talk like that amongst themselves?

Probably more dubious than doubt....

 

[A-driver]

DCO doesn't seem to bother Virgin's Pendolino crews.

I also remember when ASLEF wouldn't contemplate single manning over 110mph, now normal practice.

I appreciate it's a bargaining stance.

Improved productivity is the aim (as it was under BR and would be under Corbyn-rail), and is the same in all industries.

Rail is not exempt.

Pendolinos don't not run DOO. The driver may press the buttons but the guard has control over when they close. Virgin are making no move towards DOO.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Pendolinos don't not run DOO. The driver may press the buttons but the guard has control over when they close. Virgin are making no move towards DOO.

The ASLEF statement says they won't work DCO either, which is what I understand is the Pendolino mode of working.

 

[Carlisle]

Despatch of Pendolinos is under control of the guard not the driver.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---



Quite right. It's time we banned all Union supporters from the forum. In fact why stop there lets just ban all rail staff from the forum. Simples

You have in the past yourself suggested Javelin mode as an possible acceptable compromise in past threads on DOO which is similar to what FGW are proposing anyway so why now this hardline resistance to any kind of change

 

[plymothian]

As for the letter itself it does nothing but re-affirm ASLEF's long standing position. I'm sure GWR and the DfT were well aware of that position prior to this re-affirmation.

Incidentally, I wonder what both the sender and receiver of the letter feel about it being posted on Facebook? I trust their permission was sought.

As long as you reserve the same rules for the RMT correspondence you frequently post on here.

 

[the sniper]

"No dubiety" Anachronistic or what... Do they actually talk like that amongst themselves?

Would you feel much better if they'd said uncertainty or doubt instead...? :roll:

Damn belligerents with their words.

 

[notadriver]

You have in the past yourself suggested Javelin mode as an possible acceptable compromise in threads on DOO in the past, which is similar to what FGW are proposing so why now this hardline resistance to any kind of change

Because the Javelins were a brand new service. There were no existing guards working them unlike in the FGW scenario where existing staff working the same services albeit on newer rolling stock could radically have their job role and responsibilities altered.

 

[embers25]

Its not about power. Its about letting the Driver safely concentrate on Driving and the Guard concentrate on dispatch. Reduces the likelyhood of Platform Incidents.

As a Guard I experienced atleast 5 occasions where a Driver stopped short. As a Driver I have stopped short once.

Thats atleast 6 incidents of doors being released with carriages off the platform being AVOIDED that I know of in my 12 years. Had those trains been DOO, doors would've been released.

Where are the stats anywhere in the world to back up this claim that DOO is more dangerous. Do people refuse to travel on the Brighton Mainline due to the overwhelming DOO dangers they face and instead get a bus...also DOO ironically?! Usual union rubbish to help bargaining after their strikes failed so miserably to have the desired effect...other than to inconvenience the poor travelling public as usual. If the dangers are so real why haven't they downed tools on all current DOO lines...sigh its just a sign that the unions are worried that Corbyn won't be the holy grail leader after all and maybe they need a plan B...which of course will be strikes as usual...sigh.

 

[bnm]

As long as you reserve the same rules for the RMT correspondence you frequently post on here.

Have I ever posted a private RMT letter here? And if I have done so, just how 'frequently', as you intimate? I'm not going back through all my posts but as you are so sure perhaps you could link to all these posts to back up your assertion.

Any posts of mine containing quotes from the RMT have either come from the media or the RMT website.

When I asked for the source of the OP's quote I was expecting an ASLEF press release or similar from their website, or an attributable quote in the media, not a scan of a private letter.

 

[najaB]

Because the Javelins were a brand new service. There were no existing guards working them unlike in the FGW scenario where existing staff working the same services albeit on newer rolling stock could radically have their job role and responsibilities altered.

That statement, as written, says to me that the issue with DOO is jobs rather than safety. I'm pretty sure that isn't what you intended.

 

[455driver]

No it doesn't upset me at all, it just sadly confirms how power obsessed and out of step some railway trade unionists are with the modern world ,simples

No doubt an opinion you have arrived at after working trains extensively in both crew operated and DOO modes! :roll:

 

[bnm]

Remember folks!

The only people allowed to hold opinions on such matters as discussed here are those that do the job. Those using the services are an irrelevance.

:roll:

 

[ainsworth74]

Many thanks to timbo58 for the update from ASLEF however I see no reason to reopen the discussion around DOO seeing as we only just discussed it to death. The same people with the same points of view going around and around in circles is not really very productive and I think it's fair to say that neither side is going to change the others mind!

Therefore this thread is locked.

If anyone else has updates regarding the on going GWR dispute feel free to start a new thread for that update.