Migrants simply walking into Britain

[Johnuk123]

Agreed it is watertight. It is quite a way below the seabed. As to bombproof it was known when I worked on the project (for 5 years) that this had been thought of and catered for.

A pity that the builders didn't manage to make it impossible for anybody to walk through it.

 

[NSEFAN]

A pity that the builders didn't manage to make it impossible for anybody to walk through it.

Why would you want that? Surely you'd want emergency access in case of train fires, of which several have occurred? If security is lacking then it is before the entrance to the tunnel itself.

 

[6Gman]

A pity that the builders didn't manage to make it impossible for anybody to walk through it.

Er, if the ability to walk through was "designed out" how would you evacuate trains in an emergency? Or carry out maintenance?

That a (very) small number of people manage to walk through the Chunnel is obviously a serious failing in security but it hardly suggests the fall of civilisation as we know it.

Let's keep some perspective!

 

[thenorthern]

Security at the tunnel is tight but you can't stop everyone going through and its very hard when there are thousands trying to get through. As other have said refugees should be claiming asylum in France but I am not going to get into the politics of it all.

You also have to remember both the Gendarmerie and the Border Force of the United Kingdom have to remain professional at all times and although the Gendarmerie are armed there are so many restrictions about using weapons.

The people though I feel most sorry for though are the train drivers who have to worry about unauthorised people each time their train enters the tunnel.

 

[Johnuk123]

Er, if the ability to walk through was "designed out" how would you evacuate trains in an emergency? Or carry out maintenance?

That a (very) small number of people manage to walk through the Chunnel is obviously a serious failing in security but it hardly suggests the fall of civilisation as we know it.

Let's keep some perspective!

The ability of unknowns to walk through it at will may not be the end of civilisation but as it's an obvious terrorist target such lax security is appalling.

 

[6Gman]

The ability of unknowns to walk through it at will may not be the end of civilisation but as it's an obvious terrorist target such lax security is appalling.

At will?

 

[billio]

I should imagine an immigrant smuggling a 40ft articulated lorry under their jumper is going to raise a bit of attention, and is probably going to upset the explosive sniffer dogs and detection equipment the guards are issued with.

Don't get carried away with spy film levels of delusional nonsense, the amount of explosives needed to do significant damage to a structure like the channel tunnel, especially without modelling and specific charge placement, as is used in commercial explosive demolition, would be staggeringly huge.

I am sure you are right but a burning lorry seemed to be quite an effective way of shutting the tunnel for some time.

 

[Philip Phlopp]

I am sure you are right but a burning lorry seemed to be quite an effective way of shutting the tunnel for some time.

Fire does a huge amount of damage to pre-cast and reinforced concrete lining systems. The differences in heating, chemical reactions in the concrete and the lining actually burning effectively turn the lining rings to rubble and dust.

I'd be surprised if an explosive force did quite as much damage as a long burning, high temperature fire. I'd expect it to do a lot of localised damage at the site of the blast with lessening damage over a larger area, compared with lots of localised damage at the site of a fire.

 

[VauxhallandI]

Are you suggesting that the UK should have turned back refugees before and during he Second World War as there were other countries between us and the invasion of their country?

 

[Haydn1971]

Quite, but the point about High Speed Derailment stands, I think. Grayrigg, whilst dramatic and of course tragic for the old lady who passed away, shows just how well modern trains cope with high speed derailments.

Let's hope they don't target the 144 on the Penistone line then !

 

[Steve14]

Well you got that wrong.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-32770390



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...anning-to-use-Libya-as-gateway-to-Europe.html



http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/migrant-cr...sts-infiltrating-refugee-boats-europe-1519962

I thought this was a forum to do with the railways? Since when did it become a political forum to come and start chatting about ISIS, Syria?

As for your little statement about flying planes into buildings, thank your star for that. The channel tunnel is pretty much untouchable, if migrants wish to get hit by a Eurostar travelling at speed then why are you so worried?

 

[Antman]

Without going into the whole immigration issue security at the tunnel is a joke, gatecrashers are generally kept out of sporting and music events but not the Channel Tunnel?

 

[Agent_c]

A pity that the builders didn't manage to make it impossible for anybody to walk through it.

The only way to make it impossible to walk through would be to make it impossible to take a train through. Trains tend to be bigger than people.

The ability of unknowns to walk through it at will may not be the end of civilisation but as it's an obvious terrorist target such lax security is appalling.

Not really. the type of attack you're worried about is so completely unfeasible to pull off no serious terrorist would consider it. The resources it would take could get much better results elsewhere.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Even if they do manage to enter the French end of the tunnel, they will have to finally come out at the British end. What is the security like there and if they are caught, can they not be returned to France, that being the only country they could have entered the tunnel in?

There seems to be a myriad of railway bylaws, so surely there is at least one of those that could be brought into force in a situation such as this

 

[HSTEd]

It would probably be far cheaper and easier to slip time delayed incendiary charges into lorries trying to get into the Calais terminal.

Every week or so a lorry would catch fire in the Tunnel and basically paralyse the entire thing.

 

[Peter Mugridge]

Do we have to keep giving terrorists ideas on here...? There's about half a dozen posts in this thread saying how to cause the maximum disruption!

( This is not aimed at any particular poster )

The only way to make it impossible to walk through would be to make it impossible to take a train through. Trains tend to be bigger than people.

Build a giant inspection pit type structure at the running tunnel entrances; full width of the tunnel mouths; make it about 100ft long to deter balancing along the rails. I will refrain from suggesting that these pits be filled with water and shoals of starving piranah.

As for the service tunnel - armed guards on the entrance.

 

[Johnuk123]

Do we have to keep giving terrorists ideas on here...? There's about half a dozen posts in this thread saying how to cause the maximum disruption.

I know exactly what you mean but I think it's pretty safe to assume that once they've had a hard day of jihad they're unlikely to come on here to relax and have a browse on the Truro station canopy thread.

 

[thenorthern]

Even if they do manage to enter the French end of the tunnel, they will have to finally come out at the British end. What is the security like there and if they are caught, can they not be returned to France, that being the only country they could have entered the tunnel in?

There seems to be a myriad of railway bylaws, so surely there is at least one of those that could be brought into force in a situation such as this

Nope as soon as they enter the United Kingdom they are allowed to claim asylum and we have a duty of care until their status is approved or denied, even if people are picked up inside the tunnel we have to bring them to the United Kingdom if its closer than France. There is then the issues of appeals, detention rules and human right protesters claiming its wrong to deport people. Its the same for people arriving on forged passports at airports although they have broken many laws the United Kingdom still has a duty of care.

Without saying too much I have links to several media organisations and I can tell you we aren't being told the full truth about the present Refugee Crisis such as we are often told about women and children despite the fact that 75% of the refugee applications come from adult males.

 

[miami]

Nope as soon as they enter the United Kingdom they are allowed to claim asylum and we have a duty of care until their status is approved or denied, even if people are picked up inside the tunnel we have to bring them to the United Kingdom if its closer than France.

Just thinking back to The Tunnel, is there actually a line in the service corridor marking the border between UK and France?

Without saying too much I have links to several media organisations and I can tell you we aren't being told the full truth about the present Refugee Crisis such as we are often told about women and children despite the fact that 75% of the refugee applications come from adult males.

Unsurprising if that's the figures getting to the UK, it's expensive and dangerous to get to europe illegally, so a family will send the person who has a chance to earn money to bring the rest over.

Unless you think that the UN are lying at a massive scale, 78% of refugees from syria are women, children or pensioners, with 22% being men age 18-59.

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Are you suggesting that the UK should have turned back refugees before and during he Second World War as there were other countries between us and the invasion of their country?

Yes, many people say that. Look at the M.S. St Louis for one example - a sad tale.

And of course some things never change

 

[Senex]

Nope as soon as they enter the United Kingdom they are allowed to claim asylum and we have a duty of care until their status is approved or denied, even if people are picked up inside the tunnel we have to bring them to the United Kingdom if its closer than France.

I don't understand this. Is anyone arguing that France is not a safe country? I think not. So these people are already in a place of safety. Why do they have any further claim for asylum on us if they try to invade through the tunnel? Why should they not be sent straight back -- or tried and convicted of being illegally on Eurotunnel property and sent back with a criminal record?

 

[Tetchytyke]

I don't understand this. Is anyone arguing that France is not a safe country? I think not. So these people are already in a place of safety. Why do they have any further claim for asylum on us if they try to invade through the tunnel?

It's slightly more complicated than that, especially as there isn't always a clear line between a "refugee" and an "economic migrant". Most people are usually a bit of both, in varying degrees.

It's a clear security concern if people are getting into the tunnel, of course it is, but I'm not sure why it's about refugees/immigrants. It'd be just as much a security concern if it was Mavis from Margate who got lost on her way to Waitrose.

 

[NorthernSpirit]

To be fair, if they do not have the right or permission to be in the UK, then they are illegal immingrants (i.e illegals).

Sadly if I post anything regarding that its to do with the EU letting them in, I'll get told by some lefty liberal the opposite.

The reason why these 'people' can just simply walk in is because we're a soft country, our govenment whether its red or blue will give them benifits so that they can stay illegal or not. I hate to say it but I do blame the EU for not listening to the countries objections.

The border needs closing, and as such, the Chunnel is designed to be flooded if needed and I do think that on this occation where ISIS are encouraging their athiest army to invade our nation. Flood the damn tunnels before ISIS flood our nation.

 

[DarloRich]

Sadly if I post anything regarding that its to do with the EU letting them in, I'll get told by some lefty liberal the opposite.

The reason why these 'people' can just simply walk in is because we're a soft country, our govenment whether its red or blue will give them benifits so that they can stay illegal or not. I hate to say it but I do blame the EU for not listening to the countries objections.

The border needs closing, and as such, the Chunnel is designed to be flooded if needed and I do think that on this occation where ISIS are encouraging their athiest army to invade our nation. Flood the damn tunnels before ISIS flood our nation.

:roll:

(or is this a vastly clever parody posting?)

Interesting how these odd right wingers seem to infest message boards of various types. Is there some form of entryist plot?

 

[misterredmist]

Unless you think that the UN are lying at a massive scale, 78% of refugees from syria are women, children or pensioners, with 22% being men age 18-59.

Well if those are the UN estimates of the proportions entering the EU, then yes, the UN would be lying on a massive scale.....

 

[NSEFAN]

Sadly if I post anything regarding that its to do with the EU letting them in, I'll get told by some lefty liberal the opposite.

The reason why these 'people' can just simply walk in is because we're a soft country, our govenment whether its red or blue will give them benifits so that they can stay illegal or not. I hate to say it but I do blame the EU for not listening to the countries objections.

I thought this thread was to do with Chunnel security? Nobody should be able to access the tunnels without permission regardless of their right to abode in the UK.

The border needs closing, and as such, the Chunnel is designed to be flooded if needed and I do think that on this occation where ISIS are encouraging their athiest army to invade our nation. Flood the damn tunnels before ISIS flood our nation.

Is that really a proportionate response to the threat? You would really be happy to destroy billions of pounds of infrastructure to stop a few people walking in? That's got nothing to do with being a lefty and everything to do with not chucking billions down the toilet in pursuit of "fortress Britain" alarmism.

And what is an atheist army, anyway?

 

[Tetchytyke]

Flood the damn tunnels before ISIS flood our nation.

Maybe I'm slightly over-estimating ISIS here, but if their operatives are resourceful enough to pretend to be a refugee and make it all the way from Syria, they're probably resourceful enough to get themselves on a ferry if they can't walk through the tunnel.

athiest army

I don't think atheist (note the spelling) means what you think it means

 

[DynamicSpirit]

Well if those are the UN estimates of the proportions entering the EU, then yes, the UN would be lying on a massive scale.....

The figures are no such thing, as you would discover if you spent a couple of seconds checking out the link that paulweaver posted! If you actually clicked on the link, and took the trouble to look at the page you get to, you'd immediately see the text, "This figure includes 2.1 million Syrians registered by UNHCR in Egypt, Iraq, Jordan and Lebanon, 1.9 million Syrians registered by the Government of Turkey, as well as more than 26,700 Syrian refugees registered in North Africa.". So, unless you have some serious reason to doubt those figures, then, no, there's no reason to doubt the UN's honesty on this matter.

Incidentally, a closer look at the figures shows that refugees are male and female in almost equal numbers. And about half the refugees -both male and female - are under 18. That explains why only a quarter are male aged 18-59. I would presume the reason why that demographic appears to be in Europe in larger numbers is because adult males are more likely to be willing to risk making the journey.

 

[miami]

I thought this thread was to do with Chunnel security? Nobody should be able to access the tunnels without permission regardless of their right to abode in the UK.

Are they walking the service tunnel or the tracks? If the former, I'm surprised there isn't a locked door to stop people getting in or out.

How is the Lille Loophole going now?

 

[30907]

I don't think atheist (note the spelling) means what you think it means

Well, second century Christians were often called atheists, so there's a precedent. However, this isn't a theological or ecclesiastical forum....

 

[VauxhallandI]

Just thinking back to The Tunnel, is there actually a line in the service corridor marking the border between UK and France?



Unsurprising if that's the figures getting to the UK, it's expensive and dangerous to get to europe illegally, so a family will send the person who has a chance to earn money to bring the rest over.

Unless you think that the UN are lying at a massive scale, 78% of refugees from syria are women, children or pensioners, with 22% being men age 18-59.

http://data.unhcr.org/syrianrefugees/regional.php
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Yes, many people say that. Look at the M.S. St Louis for one example - a sad tale.

And of course some things never change

Indeed, I did brush over the fact that we had a nasty bunch about then too.