Ticket Inspectors And Railcards

[gray1404]

Someone had probably just written to the Company complaining at the lack of ticket checks (yes some people really do that) so the Company was possibly taking action to address that

I can well and truly believe it. IMHO that is really sad for someone to do that! I have never meet a Conductor like this guy though!!

 

[sarahj]

On friday I confiscated 4 YP cards that were out of date. September/October is always a good time to check as so many run out about now as many are given to students with accounts, or, are bought when starting uni.

3 were attempting to buy from me, one had already bought. If someone wants a discount when buying, I always ask to see the card.

I keep them just in case they 'forget' and try and use them again.

Senior cards get the biggest moans when you ask for them.

 

[gray1404]

On friday I confiscated 4 YP cards that were out of date. September/October is always a good time to check as so many run out about now as many are given to students with accounts, or, are bought when starting uni.

3 were attempting to buy from me, one had already bought. If someone wants a discount when buying, I always ask to see the card.

I keep them just in case they 'forget' and try and use them again.

Senior cards get the biggest moans when you ask for them.

What happens once you have collected an out of date railcard? Any forms to fill in, do you just dispose of them or do you send them back? I am wondering if the passenger will get into any sort of trouble.

If its a YP railcard, do you take the photocard as well or just the actual railcard bit that is out of date?

 

[wellwhatitis]

What happens once you have collected an out of date railcard? Any forms to fill in, do you just dispose of them or do you send them back? I am wondering if the passenger will get into any sort of trouble.

If its a YP railcard, do you take the photocard as well or just the actual railcard bit that is out of date?

You can't win on this job, I promise. Last week I checked my train and asked a girl for her railcard upon which she started the usual ferretting in her bag, eventually producing it for which I thanked her and moved to the lad sat across the aisle. He too had a railcard discounted ticket and didn't show the railcard so I asked for it. He immediately got it out of his pocket and quite embarrassingly showed it me with his thumb right across the date. I relieved him of it and pointed out to him that if I was going to ask him for the railcard I was also likely to look at the date, and this one ran out in August. At this point I needed to go and get the doors so I took the card with me and told him I'd come back.

When I returned he had turned a shade of red I haven't seen in a while and was sweating. I told him he would need a new ticket at full price which I sold him and confiscated the other ticket. He paid up and was looking petrified at this point so I took pity, returned his out of date railcard and quietly pointed out to him that if I'd been an RPI he could now be finding himself in court and that he should either renew the railcard immediately or stop buying discounted tickets and left it at that.

Later on after he had got off, the girl who remained on board called me over and complained that I had been too lenient with him and should have confiscated the railcard! The problem is I have no idea what happens to somebody if I do that and therefore decided not to as I think the ticking off in this case did the trick and he had passed the attitude test with flying colours.
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I always show my railcard with my ticket on board the train. If I am going thugh a gateline though and my ticket is rejected at the automatic gate I never bother showing the railcard at the manned gate and have never been asked (but of course it is there to get out if requested.)

I did have a total jobs worth Conductor at Birmingham New Street on board a London Midland service to Euston a few weeks ago come and do a ticket check to selected passengers before the train even departed the station. I showed him my ticket and railcard together but he still asked for my railcard - even though it was there right next to the ticket. He then did another ticket (and railcard) check after depature from Tile Hill this time to all passengers. He also had a trainee Conductor with him who did her own full ticket check after departure from Rugby (said on the PA there had been a crew change - this was a total lie).

Then there was actually a crew change at Northampton and the new guard did yet antother ticket check. Needless to say, myself and other passengers passed comment to each other about all these checks. (did I also mention that I had my ticket checked upon entering the gated area at Birmingham New Street and again when I got off at Euston)

I am pretty sure I know exactly who that was.

I have worked these trains and all I would say in defence is that it is very difficult. There is always at least one crew change in either direction be it at MK or Northampton and if the barriers are up at MK, Bletchley, Northampton, Rugby (and then all the unmanned ones inbetween) and you don't repeat the ticket check when you take over a hell of a lot of fare dodgers (particularly from MK travelling North) get away with it, and you have no way of knowing who has already been checked.

As for Birmingham New St, the problem there is with the dodgers who come into New St on other trains and change onto yours with no ticket. There are an awful lot of them.

 

[crehld]

I always hand my ticket and the railcard wallet (with valid railcard inside of course) to the guard / inspector. It's up to them if they wish to open it up and scrutinize it. Nine times out of ten they don't bother. I use a 16-25 railcard but I'm a mature PhD student with salt and pepper hair so I'm always somewhat suprised it's not checked more closely more often.

 

[Arglwydd Golau]

I always have my wallet open with railcard prominent, as 455Driver suggested. It's not always looked at, and I don't think there is much difference between any TOC that I have travelled on.
Slightly different note, I was never asked for proof of date of birth when I regularly used Club55 on ATW or, on occasions, Scotrail (before I became eligible for a railcard). Sadly, all the Guards/Ticket Inspectors must have thought that I appeared to have reached that age!

 

[sarahj]

What happens once you have collected an out of date railcard? Any forms to fill in, do you just dispose of them or do you send them back? I am wondering if the passenger will get into any sort of trouble.

If its a YP railcard, do you take the photocard as well or just the actual railcard bit that is out of date?

We put them on the wall in the depot. No forms, just no YP discount sold. If the YP card is two parts we take the railcard, not the photocard, if its an all in one, we take that.

And to the conductor that handed an out of date one back, bad move. The ticket is property of the railway and since it was being used incorrectly, you have full rights to confiscate it. The punter might just 'forget' again and keep using it. After all they have got away with it once, how about two for two.

 

[wellwhatitis]

We put them on the wall in the depot. No forms, just no YP discount sold. If the YP card is two parts we take the railcard, not the photocard, if its an all in one, we take that.

And to the conductor that handed an out of date one back, bad move. The ticket is property of the railway and since it was being used incorrectly, you have full rights to confiscate it. The punter might just 'forget' again and keep using it. After all they have got away with it once, how about two for two.

I know what you're saying, but I didn't know what would happen to him and he wasn't being an idiot about it like many are. In hindsight I probably will next time.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Would there be any reason for him to want to keep it other than to try using it again? A renewal is the same price as a brand new railcard

 

[Solent&Wessex]

I have had some girl having a right tissy fit, screaming, crying, banging the tables and windows and following me down the train when I withdrew her expired railcard once. When I wouldn't give it back she got the station supervisor (who worked for a different TOC) at the next station. He came and demanded I gave it back as it wasn't my property and belonged to her! She never got it back, much to her obvious displeasure as she was crying and screaming obscenities at me as the train pulled away.

I never did find out why she was so attached to that one out of date railcard.

 

[sarahj]

I have had some girl having a right tissy fit, screaming, crying, banging the tables and windows and following me down the train when I withdrew her expired railcard once. When I wouldn't give it back she got the station supervisor (who worked for a different TOC) at the next station. He came and demanded I gave it back as it wasn't my property and belonged to her! She never got it back, much to her obvious displeasure as she was crying and screaming obscenities at me as the train pulled away.

I never did find out why she was so attached to that one out of date railcard.

Nice to have a station supervisor clued up on ticket matters. I hope you put him right.

 

[Hadders]

Nice to have a station supervisor clued up on ticket matters. I hope you put him right.

He must be a 'man on the platform'.

 

[CarltonA]

On Chiltern they tend to ask for the railcard if you are not already showing it.

A couple of times on other lines I have encountered a strange ritual when the barriers have been set to reject railcard discounted tickets. The person on the barrier has then taken my ticket and railcard out of my hand before overriding the barrier and then handed them back as I walked through.

 

[talldave]

On HS1 not only do conductors almost always look at railcards but most remove them from the wallet and check that the reverse has been signed too !

That's not my experience on HS1, it's rare to have my ticket checked. It would be better if they spent less time spouting inane drivel on the PA and did more ticket checks. I'm referring to all the "On behalf of myself, the driver, everyone at Southeastern, the lady who made my sandwiches and the managing director's new puppy "fluffy" I'd like to thank you for travelling with Southeastern. ......" rubbish.

 

[gray1404]

I think as long as the railcard is in date and matches the photo of the person using it then that's enough. Being proactive and taking it out the walet in the hope that there isn't a signature on it is just an example of being out to cause a problem for someone. It says a lot about the person doing it if they honestly delight in creating a problem for someone and taking their railcard off them when it is otherwise valid.

 

[CarltonA]

I think as long as the railcard is in date and matches the photo of the person using it then thats enough. Being proactive and taking it out the walet in the hope that there isn't a signature on it is just an example of being out to cause a problem for someone. It says a lot about the person doing it if they honestly delight in creating a problem for someone and taking their railcard off them when it is otherwise valid.

Network Railcards however don't require photos, only once did someone ask me if I had signed it. They didn't actually look on the back though.

 

[Clip]

I think as long as the railcard is in date and matches the photo of the person using it then thats enough. Being proactive and taking it out the walet in the hope that there isn't a signature on it is just an example of being out to cause a problem for someone. It says a lot about the person doing it if they honestly delight in creating a problem for someone and taking their railcard off them when it is otherwise valid.

See this is what I'm talking about - there is simply no getting through to you and yet again its the TOCs and their staff causing you the problem even though as part of accepting the T&Cs of the railcard you must sign the back of it but you simply cannot accept this. Another one who just moans and moans and moans and tries to pick holes.

I give up. I really do. Free train travel for all of you - you deserve it.

 

[ainsworth74]

I think as long as the railcard is in date and matches the photo of the person using it then thats enough. Being proactive and taking it out the walet in the hope that there isn't a signature on it is just an example of being out to cause a problem for someone. It says a lot about the person doing it if they honestly delight in creating a problem for someone and taking their railcard off them when it is otherwise valid.

The railcard is not valid unless signed as it clearly states in the conditions under which the product is sold and offered. It might be a bit much confiscating an unsigned railcard but they are well within their rights to check that a railcard is signed.

So calling someone a 'jobsworth' for checking to see if it is signed is unnecessary and unhelpful in my view.

Plus where is this stuff about 'honest delight in creating a problem' coming from? I don't see any members of railway staff on here or any passengers commenting about experiences they have seen or had taking 'delight' in causing problems. Usually because they haven't caused the problem (unless doing their job counts?)!

 

[PermitToTravel]

Taking the railcard out of the wallet to check the signature also has the secondary purpose of letting the inspector see if it physically feels like railcards usually do or if it might be slightly homemade

 

[gray1404]

Yes, I agree it is part of the terms and conditions of use but how many of the public would actually know that. It was not so much of a problem when all railcards were brought at the booking office as the person selling it could prompt the customer to sign it there and then. However, now as railcards are being brought online or over the phone in some cases, there is a higher chance a customer may not have their card signed.

What I thing would be helpful in such a situation is if the person checking the ticket could simply remind the customer of the need to sign it and that can be done there and then. That why it avoids conflict and resolves the situation there and then in a friendly way and does not leave the customer with any bad feeling towards the railway. IT also ensures they most likely sign all railcards in future. Its a win win for all concerned.

 

[hounddog]

The railcard is not valid unless signed as it clearly states in the conditions under which the product is sold and offered.

Is that the case with Network Railcards? Because I have *never* been asked to sign one and I'm now on my fourth or fifth. And they were all bought in person at King's Cross, hardly a quiet station in the middle of nowhere that might sell three a year.

 

[PeterY]

I've just inspected my Network South East card. I've had one since they were first introduced and no one has ever questioned or even looked at the back for a signature.

It has now been signed.

 

[tony6499]

I always show my railcard with my ticket on board the train. If I am going thugh a gateline though and my ticket is rejected at the automatic gate I never bother showing the railcard at the manned gate and have never been asked (but of course it is there to get out if requested.)

I did have a total jobs worth Conductor at Birmingham New Street on board a London Midland service to Euston a few weeks ago come and do a ticket check to selected passengers before the train even departed the station. I showed him my ticket and railcard together but he still asked for my railcard - even though it was there right next to the ticket. He then did another ticket (and railcard) check after depature from Tile Hill this time to all passengers. He also had a trainee Conductor with him who did her own full ticket check after departure from Rugby (said on the PA there had been a crew change - this was a total lie).

Then there was actually a crew change at Northampton and the new guard did yet antother ticket check. Needless to say, myself and other passengers passed comment to each other about all these checks. (did I also mention that I had my ticket checked upon entering the gated area at Birmingham New Street and again when I got off at Euston)

Bit unneeded , just because someone wants to do it that way doesn't make him that.

I always find anyone who uses the term jobsworth to be amongst the moaners and troublemakers who like to make life difficult then use the term jobsworth when pulled up.

 

[Romilly]

Where there are two named holders of a Family & Friends railcard, it is always wise to sign it when first issued/received as, because it can be used by one named holder travelling without the other, it may not always be possible to remedy a lack of signatures when out and about with it.

 

[ainsworth74]

Is that the case with Network Railcards? Because I have *never* been asked to sign one and I'm now on my fourth or fifth. And they were all bought in person at King's Cross, hardly a quiet station in the middle of nowhere that might sell three a year.

As per the Terms & Conditions on the Network Railcard website:

1) You must sign the Railcard before use to show acceptance of all the conditions listed below.

What I thing would be helpful in such a situation is if the person checking the ticket could simply remind the customer of the need to sign it and that can be done there and then. That why it avoids conflict and resolves the situation there and then in a friendly way and does not leave the customer with any bad feeling towards the railway. IT also ensures they most likely sign all railcards in future. Its a win win for all concerned.

Which is what the 99.99% of staff do (if they even notice). I remain perplexed as to why you're suddenly going on about staff creating conflict or going looking for issues? No one, as far as I can tell, on this thread has said anything of the sort until you suddenly brought it up and made a big issue of it.

 

[FenMan]

And, if the card does show a signature, how many staff have insisted on a handwriting test?

*I've purchased a Network Card every year since it was introduced. Only once was I pulled up on a lack of a signature, by an RPI at the platform-side ticket booth at Reading. For years, I've signed each new card, despite never being prompted to do so by ticket office staff.

 

[gray1404]

Bit unneeded , just because someone wants to do it that way doesn't make him that.

I always find anyone who uses the term jobsworth to be amongst the moaners and troublemakers who like to make life difficult then use the term jobsworth when pulled up.

I am afraid there was other behaviour on the part of the person concerned which was bad, if you want to know then you can PM and ask. There was certainly no problem created on my part as I showed my ticket as requested and the railcard. As stated in my post too if you want to re-read it, my railcard was out and ready so there was actually no issue with the railcard being shown.
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Which is what the 99.99% of staff do (if they even notice). I remain perplexed as to why you're suddenly going on about staff creating conflict or going looking for issues? No one, as far as I can tell, on this thread has said anything of the sort until you suddenly brought it up and made a big issue of it.

What I am saying and if you care to re-read my posts, is that if a customer is discovered that their railcard is not signed and it is then taken off them, that is highly likely to create a situation of conflict because the customer is not going to be happy about having their railcard taken off them. Either way, the customer will not be happy about it. What is the point I am making and nothing more!

 

[bb21]

See this is what I'm talking about - there is simply no getting through to you and yet again its the TOCs and their staff causing you the problem even though as part of accepting the T&Cs of the railcard you must sign the back of it but you simply cannot accept this. Another one who just moans and moans and moans and tries to pick holes.

I give up. I really do. Free train travel for all of you - you deserve it.

I think he does have a point. I fully agree that staff concerned were just doing their job and probably shouldn't have been criticised, but the signature on the Railcard itself is pointless imo, for the very simple reason that the issuing of a Railcard is subject to acceptance of the terms and conditions, either by a signature on the application form, or ticking a box on online forms, so what additional purpose does the signature on the Railcard serve?

I can understand the point of taking a Railcard out of the wallet to check whether it is genuine, but that can be equally explained to punters.

 

[yorkie]

....so what additional purpose does the signature on the Railcard serve?

In my opinion none because the T&Cs still apply.

 

[gray1404]

It could even become printed on the railcard, in place of a signature box, "Use of this railcard shows acceptance of the terms and conditions" or something simular. I notice a simlar on my MyWaitrose card today.

The fact that ATOC are proposing a digital railcard clearly shows that it is not vital to have a handwirtten signature on a railcard.