Coach Station Hub for North London

[pitdiver]

I have heard today from a local community group that there is a proposal that a Coach Hub/station is to be developed at New Southgate. I assume that this is part of the plan to close VCS in the future,

Has anybody else heard this rumour/proposal.

 

[Mikey C]

I have heard today from a local community group that there is a proposal that a Coach Hub/station is to be developed at New Southgate. I assume that this is part of the plan to close VCS in the future,

Has anybody else heard this rumour/proposal.

Isn't Golders Green already the North London station for National Express, unless this is a replacement.
Hardly convenient for tourists, and it's on one of the worst bits of the North Circular!

 

[Be3G]

I haven't heard anything about the proposal, but I could see it being useful. In Enfield we have no scheduled coach services whatseoever, which makes them next to useless for residents of this part of London because you have to go on a long public transport journey just to reach somewhere like Golders Green or Stratford to get a coach. So a hub at New Southgate could be useful if it included some new/changed services to include this part of London.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Would a new site be better off being to the west of London, somewhere near to either the M25 and/or south circular and/or north circular and/or the tube?

 

[pitdiver]

Further to my earlier post, it has just occurred to me that this proposal might be tied up with the development of Crossrail 2 which I believe will terminate at New Southgate. The area mentioned in the Coach Stn rumour is adjacent to the railway ( If anybody knows the area it's on the site of the old Gasworks)

 

[deltic]

I have heard today from a local community group that there is a proposal that a Coach Hub/station is to be developed at New Southgate. I assume that this is part of the plan to close VCS in the future,

Has anybody else heard this rumour/proposal.

Not heard this - my understanding is that VCS will move to Paddington

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Not heard this - my understanding is that VCS will move to Paddington

Looking at it on Google Earth, if it moved to Paddington it'd probably be quicker for coaches coming from Dorset and Hampshire as it'd be nearly all dual carriageway within London

 

[pitdiver]

Looking at it on Google Earth, if it moved to Paddington it'd probably be quicker for coaches coming from Dorset and Hampshire as it'd be nearly all dual carriageway within London

That's sorted out coaches coming from the South West and South Central. Perhaps this is the idea of having Satelite Coach Stations. Paddington for the west. New Southgate for the North Perhaps the Stratford area for the east but what about Southeast any suggestions?

 

[deltic]

That's sorted out coaches coming from the South West and South Central. Perhaps this is the idea of having Satelite Coach Stations. Paddington for the west. New Southgate for the North Perhaps the Stratford area for the east but what about Southeast any suggestions?

Brent Cross and Wembley have been floated for the North and Midlands due to M1 access - and Stratford as you suggest for the east. Bullieds Way at Victoria may remain for commuter coaches and services from the south

 

[telstarbox]

I seem to remember that when closing VCS was discussed last time on here it was felt that there are significant numbers changing between coaches at Victoria - is this no longer the case?

 

[pitdiver]

As an ex C byoach Stn manager for NX I can confirm that there was a significant number of passengers that changed at VCS. Therefore from a personal point of view I could never understand how the satellite system of Coach Stn would work. But if Westminster City Council get their own way VCS will close.

 

[deltic]

As an ex C byoach Stn manager for NX I can confirm that there was a significant number of passengers that changed at VCS. Therefore from a personal point of view I could never understand how the satellite system of Coach Stn would work. But if Westminster City Council get their own way VCS will close.

A satellite system wouldnt work. VCS will go because of Crossrail 2 - it is hoped vast majority of coaches will move to a new facility at Paddington (although Westminster would prefer it went out of the Borough altogher). North London terminals are unlikely to happen, Stratford is unlikely to see much more growth beyond those services that already serve there. Bullied Way will stay probably served by commuter and airport and ad-hoc tourist coaches due to less interchange with other services. But for it too work need to have Nat Ex and Stagecoach preparing to agree long term contracts to use it otherwise TfL risks ending up with a white elephant.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Why wouldn't a new site at Paddington be suitable for all NX services?

 

[carlberry]

I seem to remember that when closing VCS was discussed last time on here it was felt that there are significant numbers changing between coaches at Victoria - is this no longer the case?

Its still the case and always will be. However coach passengers are seen as much less important than finding a building site for railway construction. Coaches, like buses, are also a good thing to blame for air polution. Much better than blaming all the taxis running around all the time with few people on them!

 

[freetoview33]

What ever happened to the old oak proposal?

 

[Mikey C]

Its still the case and always will be. However coach passengers are seen as much less important than finding a building site for railway construction. Coaches, like buses, are also a good thing to blame for air polution. Much better than blaming all the taxis running around all the time with few people on them!

VCS is Grade II listed, so it's not as if they could just bulldoze the site to use it as a CR2 location!

 

[deltic]

VCS is Grade II listed, so it's not as if they could just bulldoze the site to use it as a CR2 location!

Only the facade is listed AFAIK - the whole site is not even owned by TfL anyway.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Why wouldn't a new site at Paddington be suitable for all NX services?

The site may not be big enough for all coach operations to go into - it is not in the ideal location for services from the south or east so at the least may need additional stops in central London for these services.

 

[Andyh82]

Surely VCS has always been badly placed as surely more coaches come from the north than the south as there is more of the UK north than South!. If there was a coach station somewhere near North London it would shave half an hour off journey times, with coaches no longer having to fight their way along Oxford Street and Park Lane. The rough land behind King's Cross that is presumably now being redeveloped would have been a good location.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There's probably more of an argument for a not-quite-central coach station somewhere like Old Oak than there is for terminating HS2 there, as unlike a high-speed train, a coach takes ages to get into central London, so switching to Crossrail may save significant time.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

On Google Earth, where's the proposed site for the new coach station?

 

[radamfi]

Of course coaches should remain at VCS, because that is where my trains to London go from! Seriously though, as most coaches go west or north, Paddington would be OK if has good access to the Crossrail station, preferably better than the 5-10 minute walk from VCS to Victoria.

The concept of more than one bus station in one city is not unknown. Greece has one dominant operator, KTEL, but has two coach stations in the two biggest cities. In Greece, as in much of southern Europe, coaches are considered the primary form of inter-city pubic transport, as trains are slow and infrequent.

 

[SpacePhoenix]

Of course coaches should remain at VCS, because that is where my trains to London go from! Seriously though, as most coaches go west or north, Paddington would be OK if has good access to the Crossrail station, preferably better than the 5-10 minute walk from VCS to Victoria.

The concept of more than one bus station in one city is not unknown. Greece has one dominant operator, KTEL, but has two coach stations in the two biggest cities. In Greece, as in much of southern Europe, coaches are considered the primary form of inter-city pubic transport, as trains are slow and infrequent.

Ideally if the Crossrail, mainline and coach stations are close enough there should be a covered overhead walkway between the 3

 

[deltic]

On Google Earth, where's the proposed site for the new coach station?

My understanding is that it would be located along side Royal Oak underground station using land that is presently a Crossrail construction site with access to the Westway

 

[Bletchleyite]

My understanding is that it would be located along side Royal Oak underground station using land that is presently a Crossrail construction site with access to the Westway

Particularly if the new station was to the excellent standard of the new one at Birmingham, that would be a real advantage - a much nicer environment and a much quicker journey for most users.

 

[pitdiver]

Particularly if the new station was to the excellent standard of the new one at Birmingham, that would be a real advantage - a much nicer environment and a much quicker journey for most users.

The only reason that the Coach Stn in Birmingham is so smart is because it's where NX have their head off. I can't see the NX head honchos working any old fleapit of a coach station simiar to the old one on the same site

 

[Bletchleyite]

The only reason that the Coach Stn in Birmingham is so smart is because it's where NX have their head off. I can't see the NX head honchos working any old fleapit of a coach station simiar to the old one on the same site

I think that's a little cynical - the new MK Coachway (well, new-ish) is almost as nice.

 

[Antman]

That's sorted out coaches coming from the South West and South Central. Perhaps this is the idea of having Satelite Coach Stations. Paddington for the west. New Southgate for the North Perhaps the Stratford area for the east but what about Southeast any suggestions?

North Greenwich?

This all seems a very retrograde step, I cannot imagine passengers changing coaches being greatly thrilled at the prospect of having to get a tube between satellite coach stations

 

[Stats]

North Greenwich?

This all seems a very retrograde step, I cannot imagine passengers changing coaches being greatly thrilled at the prospect of having to get a tube between satellite coach stations

Indeed, and there are quite a few people who use coaches because of anxiety or claustrophobia using trains, and especially won't use the tube.

 

[pitdiver]

I think that's a little cynical - the new MK Coachway (well, new-ish) is almost as nice.

I know about MK Coachway. I was the manager of the old coachway, the interim Coachway and the new coachway. That was until the roof fell in, literally and metaphorically. Don' forget the MK Coachway was the responsibility of MK Council and other bodies. Not NX they were taken on board to run it and pay for the fitting out. At the Old and Interim Coachway we would see a member of senior management perhaps once a year. However when the new one opened there was managers all over the place some I had never seen before. Perhaps thats why I am so cynical.

 

[Andyh82]

They could run a shuttle service between the North and South coach stations to provide a link to those changing coaches.