Virgin West Coast Bad managment

[cjp]

Travelling down on the 1840 Glasgow to Euston Service in coach G
All announcements inaudible - not problem I thought until we all missed an announcement at Preston?? (the next station was Wigan North Western) to detrain, to cross the platform and board another train.
After time someone noticed us sitting therein coach G and said to go across.
Why?
How long had we got?
ASAP
As you can imagine I was settled down shoes off laptop plugged in so ran and put my bags into a open vestibule and mentioned my cycle at the rear of the train.
Oh yes they had seen the bike and wondered who it belonged to but no one had transferred it across.
So headed up to the rear of the train and moved it across.
How long had I got until the train departed? - no Virgin staff could tell me.
So I played hunt for my bags back down at the front of the train.
Could not find them.
Ended up pulling the pass com, The doors had been closed and would not re-open
"Driver aware" lit But no communication.
Doors eventually unlocked.
No one around but then a man (the driver?) came and reset it and could not or would not tell me anything,
I eventually found my bags,
The train left.
I am on it now wondering if any of you people can tell me why we had to detrain?
I will contact Virgin later to get their views,
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Announcement made that was a Freightliner problem and we will now get in at Midnight or 0015
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Anyone have an phone number or email address for Virgin's customer service they can pass on please?

I cannot see it on their web site just a number of different forms to fill in in but I am getting tired. and may have missed it.

 

[SouthEastern-465]

I can see your point to some extent and fully agree on the point that the staff should have made a clearer announcement. All the same without causing offence a little common sense from your behalf (Such as checking where you are if you had full knowledge the announcements were poor!) wouldn't have gone a miss! Anyway I hope the rest of your journey went well

Kind Regards

 

[WatcherZero]

And knowing where your bags are.

 

[Starmill]

I can only assume the OP knew full well where they were - Preston! Why should thay be cause to detrain if you weren't told to?

 

[bb21]

Obviously if staff are not informed that announcements are barely audible then they may not be aware and could not report it, but Virgin should take some responsibility for the mayhem that ensued due to the faulty PA system.

The number I found online is 0333 103 1031.

 

[Greenback]

I've experienced this myself some years ago on FGW. It's not the fault of the staff making the announcements if there is a fault with the PA. If they knew about it, I'm sure they would have come into the affected coach and let us all know what was happening.

 

[HowardGWR]

How are deaf people supposed to cope? For them, the p.a. never works. For such an important announcement, every passenger needed to be informed, as was shewn by this anecdote. Hope OP will give us the end of the story.

 

[berneyarms]

Surely in that kind of situation standard practice would be for someone to walk through the train to make sure that everyone had switched trains?

 

[najaB]

Travelling down on the 1840 Glasgow to Euston...

Quite a tale of woe. I agree that you were let down by Virgin, but it's worth bearing in mind that the TM would've most likely have been making his announcements from coach C so would have no idea that the PA wasn't audible in G.

I'm very surprised that they didn't do a sweep of the train to look for stragglers, sleepers, etc.

 

[bb21]

I'm very surprised that they didn't do a sweep of the train to look for stragglers, sleepers, etc.

Someone did according to the OP as they were spotted.

 

[PHILIPE]

I've heard of many cases late at night when a sleeping passenger has finished up in Canton Depot because the train has not been checked at Cardiff Central.

 

[najaB]

Someone did according to the OP as they were spotted.

I got the impression that it was a 'random someone' rather than a member of the train crew.

 

[Mugby]

It is a tale of woe but to be honest, it sounds like you were sprawled out as one might be in a hotel room rather than on a train, with your shoes off and belongings scattered all over the place.

Such incidences are rare but will you resolve to be a little more 'together' in future?

 

[driver_m]

If the audio announcements were so bad in that coach, did anyone actually get up and tell the train manager? No good blaming Virgin for faulty PA announcements if no one actually told the Train Manager as it can then be reset by the driver or at least flagged up to get it fixed. The TM would then have been aware and acted accordingly.

 

[Mugby]

Yorkie, I wasn't suggesting that the OP shouldn't have stowed his cycle in the correct place or plugged in a laptop. It was the fact that, in his own words, he had to play 'hunt for his own bags' and 'could not find them'.

That's a very risky and undesirable situation for anyone to allow themselves to get into.
'Please don't leave your luggage unattended' etc, etc.

 

[6Gman]

Let me offer an alternative version from the point of view of the train operator:

"Unfortunately one of our trains developed a fault. Despite our stock being intensively worked we were able to arrange a replacement train to be provided from Preston. An on-train announcement was made advising passengers of the need to switch trains. Unfortunately there was a PA fault in one carriage which meant the announcement was not heard [nobody travelling in that carriage had reported this fault to on-train staff]. At Preston staff boarded this carriage and advised passengers [sorry, customers ] of the need to change. One passenger needed to retrieve his cycle from elsewhere on the train but instead of taking his luggage with him, he left it on the now empty train which led to further confusion and delay ..."

Just a thought ...

 

[Starmill]

If the PA is broken and nothing can be heard how is anyone supposed to know that to report it? Honestly.

 

[asylumxl]

If the PA is broken and nothing can be heard how is anyone supposed to know that to report it? Honestly.

This is Britain. If you aren't bombarded with announcements every few minutes, you assume the PA system isn't working.

 

[satisnek]

If the PA is broken and nothing can be heard how is anyone supposed to know that to report it? Honestly.

Can you hear me at the back?

 

[IanD]

One bad experience does not bad management make.

Perhaps the title of the thread could have been "Poorly handled incident on Virgin West Coast".

To contrast this, I was on the same train 2 days before. Everything went smoothly. We heard every announcement - twice. We were even offered free biscuits in standard just before the shop closed at Milton Keynes because first was virtually empty and no-one was eating them. We arrived Milton Keynes almost 5 minutes early and 14 minutes after that I was home watching Corrie. Excellent management by Virgin Trains West Coast I think.

 

[Geezertronic]

If the PA is broken and nothing can be heard how is anyone supposed to know that to report it? Honestly.

The OP said "All announcements inaudible" which to me means the PA was working but no one could understand what was being said. So if that was the case, while it was "broken" it would have been something that, if reported to the TM, could have been mitigated by manual announcements.

 

[fv43576]

I am deaf, I don't know when announcement is talked, things is happen I just don't know till I find out, better to ignore it and sit till when is happen then you know.

 

[najaB]

If the PA is broken and nothing can be heard how is anyone supposed to know that to report it? Honestly.

I could be wrong, but I took 'all announcements inaudible' to mean that the OP knew announcements were being made but was unable to hear them properly. So most likely it was "Bing Bong *buzz* *buzz* *buzz*" as I've experienced a few times on Pendolinos.

 

[merry]

I am deaf, I don't know when announcement is talked, things is happen I just don't know till I find out, better to ignore it and sit till when is happen then you know.

(slight aside...)
A couple of posters have mentioned that, being deaf, they can't hear announcements. Whilst they do have the bliss of not hearing the repetitive announcements every few minutes (or so it seems), there is a rather more serious matter that staff and/or operational practice don't take their needs into account.

I have a few thoughts about this, and I'd welcome the deaf & hard-of-hearing forum members' comments.
(for the purpose of this post, I'm going to consider HoH and deaf similarly, although I know there are significant differences for each person's experience depending on level of hearing impairment)

The UK does have an 'Equality Act', which makes it an offence to discriminate against a person with disability (of any kind) by failing to offer a service on (at least substantially) the same terms as anyone else.
Whilst I am sure VT would say that passengers with a disability (which definitely includes HoH/Deaf) should make themselves known to traincrew, I doubt (a) the crew would know what to do if they were told, and (b) that it's even satisfactory for every hard-of-hearing person to have to make themself known - is it reasonable for the person to have to do so? Is that in itself discrimination, because otherwise no-one would know?

In a number of countries, it has recently standard practice to fit Hearing Loops (i.e. Assistive Listening systems) in rail vehicles, at least in new procurement. These help hearing aid users [with the 'T' coil] to receive PA announcements directly into their hearing aid.
e.g. they're in place in Dublin & Nottingham's trams, in the 'Matangi' trains in Wellington (NZ), in new stock in Sweden & elsewhere. Amtrak in the USA have committed to fit their entire fleet with hearing loops [trial installs start early next year], and lots of other current procurements are requiring the facility.
In the UK, hearing loops are not required on trains (Rail Vehicle Accessibility Regulations don't require them). As a result, operators will not fit the facility - have you ever seen a train operator spend on facilities they're not forced to provide? [OK, to be fair: yes, but very rarely!]

So, would the deaf & HoH forum members see a benefit if [properly working] Hearing Loops were installed on UK trains?
What would the benefits/issues be for you?
Be interesting to find out!

 

[cjp]

It is a tale of woe but to be honest, it sounds like you were sprawled out as one might be in a hotel room rather than on a train, with your shoes off and belongings scattered all over the place.

Such incidences are rare but will you resolve to be a little more 'together' in future?

I was together.

I was on a train travelling first class in coach G from the start of the trains journey in Glasgow at 1840 to its final stop in London around midnight. This was planned to be a five hour uninterrupted journey (except for a ticket check at the start and Virgin supplying refreshments)
My bike was in its reserved accommodation at the train, I was up towards the front of the train.
Mid journey station announcements had no interest so I noting tthe voices were "blessedly inaudible I settled in for the next few hours.
I took off my lace up hiking boots and put them in the overhead luggage.
I took out from my hand luggage a laptop and some slip on flip flops to walk about the train.
I plugged in the laptop charger and connected up.
I plugged in the wireless charger for my mobile.
I put my hand luggage in the overhead luggage rack and settled down for next few hours.
I had no earphones in or headphones on.
After dark I tuned things out and no idea where the train was from either looking out into the dark or from announcements.

If you consider the facts to mean I was sprawled out or my things were scattered all over the place then, by your understanding. consider me scattered all over the place.

I consider I was properly seated taking advantage of the facilities available.

Geezertronic The OP said "All announcements inaudible" which to me means the PA was working but no one could understand what was being said. So if that was the case, while it was "broken" it would have been something that, if reported to the TM, could have been mitigated by manual announcements.

Quite right and perhaps one of the serving staff had done so? Or one of the other six or seven in the coach who might have been concerned if not travelling to the end of the line in London?

IanD One bad experience does not bad management make.

Perhaps the title of the thread could have been "Poorly handled incident on Virgin West Coast".

To contrast this, I was on the same train 2 days before. Everything went smoothly. We heard every announcement - twice. We were even offered free biscuits in standard just before the shop closed at Milton Keynes because first was virtually empty and no-one was eating them. We arrived Milton Keynes almost 5 minutes early and 14 minutes after that I was home watching Corrie. Excellent management by Virgin Trains West Coast I think.

Or perhaps the thread title could have been Virgin West Coast Incident Badly Handled by Local Management because of Maintenance and Training issues? but given my feelings and emotions at the time I wrote the posting I am satisfied with the heading I used.
If you can convince me the incident, as far as I was concerned, was well managed with no shortcomings I will change it.

And yes I have used this service in the past and have been pleased enough to use it repeatedly.



Yes never let the truth get in the way of defending rail staff and having a poke at the travellers using their services rather than say sorry for the trouble say instead we are right , look at it from our slant . .

6Gman Let me offer an alternative version from the point of view of the train operator:

"Unfortunately one of our trains developed a fault. Despite our stock being intensively worked we were able to arrange a replacement train to be provided from Preston.

It was reported later that a Freightliner service had caused this problem by a something going wrong at Banbury ( hundreds of miles away and off route).
Forward travel was not on a replacement train from extensively worked stock but was another Virgin train that was held - but for how long???

6Gman An on-train announcement was made advising passengers of the need to switch trains. Unfortunately there was a PA fault in one carriage which meant the announcement was not heard [nobody travelling in that carriage had reported this fault to on-train staff].

You do not know that - I do not know that - you may want to assume that for the purposes of your slant that travellers are their own worse enemy. Perhaps travellers should be banned from trains

6Gman At Preston staff boarded this carriage and advised passengers [sorry, customers ] of the need to change.

No one boarded the carriage and told us anything.

6Gman One passenger needed to retrieve his cycle from elsewhere on the train but instead of taking his luggage with him, he left it on the now empty train which led to further confusion and delay ..."

Just a thought ...

A passenger learned of the need to change trains from a pair of passengers who had heard it from someone outside the train and had no idea how long was left to make this change. Not stopping to change his footwear he gathered up all his belongings, crossed the platform in a distraught state, left his immediate belongings in a vestibule of the other train and tried to find out what was going on, how long there was to resolve things?
Sadly no Virgin staff were on hand just an couple of intoxicated passengers who wanted to know how much longer their train was going to be delayed so adding to the urgency of the situation with prospect of the held train departing imminently.

Enough I could go on but I will write to Virgin for their considered response.

To those who helped me here my thanks.
To those others like 6Gman I would say we all have our own perspectives and if you can use yours to help you shift responsibility rather than say sorry things could have been handled better and doing so makes you feel better so be it.

 

[DarloRich]

To those others like 6Gman I would say we all have our own perspectives and if you can use yours to help you shift responsibility rather than say sorry things could have been handled better and doing so makes you feel better so be it.

what one earth are you on about? The quoted poster offered the alternative view to yours. I notice you don't like to challenged or look at anything from a different perspective.

I also notice you didn't tell the guard that the PA may have been faulty. Perhaps he doesn't have the power of clairvoyance to know his PA is broken! It could have been worse. You might have ended up at the depot! It all seems like a vast overreaction to a minor issue followed by a vast flapping panic.

Clearly you should not have been left on the train without information but there has to be some responsibility on the passenger ( that is YOU) to inform the guard if things aren't working correctly. You cant rely on others to do something and then complain when no one does. How hard would it have been for you to stop on of the crew and tell them the PA wasn't working correctly?

It was reported later that a Freightliner service had caused this problem by a something going wrong at Banbury ( hundreds of miles away and off route).
Forward travel was not on a replacement train from extensively worked stock but was another Virgin train that was held - but for how long???

that is what happens on our congested and overworked railway system. If only you knew how interlinked the system was and how delays impact vastly "down stream".

 

[Robertj21a]

One bad experience does not bad management make.

Perhaps the title of the thread could have been "Poorly handled incident on Virgin West Coast".

To contrast this, I was on the same train 2 days before. Everything went smoothly. We heard every announcement - twice. We were even offered free biscuits in standard just before the shop closed at Milton Keynes because first was virtually empty and no-one was eating them. We arrived Milton Keynes almost 5 minutes early and 14 minutes after that I was home watching Corrie. Excellent management by Virgin Trains West Coast I think.

Well said - but surely you know that it is a requirement on this forum to hate everything that Virgin Trains ever do ?

 

[DarloRich]

This is Britain. If you aren't bombarded with announcements every few minutes, you assume the PA system isn't working.

exactly! The average frequency must be something like 4.7 milliseconds between announcements

 

[cjp]

what one earth are you on about? The quoted poster offered the alternative view to yours. I notice you don't like to challenged or look at anything from a different perspective.

I have no problem with different perspectives - if they are based upon facts. If one makes a rejoinder against facts then a challenge is to be expected.

After leaving Glasgow and a ticket check I never saw the guard - Why am I bothering. I like the forums but it often appears to close ranks and be railway v the rest. No criticism here please Move along.

 

[DarloRich]

I have no problem with different perspectives - if they are based upon facts. If one makes a rejoinder against facts then a challenge is to be expected.

After leaving Glasgow and a ticket check I never saw the guard - Why am I bothering. I like the forums but it often appears to close ranks and be railway v the rest. No criticism here please Move along.

you indicated that you received the first class service so I assumed someone served you. Perhaps they could have been informed of the lack of announcements.