Could Pacers be sold to developing countries?

[northwichcat]

I was watching Travel Channel's Tough Trains recently and one episode focused on Bolivia and the fact many lines no longer have proper passenger services and some of the ones which do have trains operated by Mercedes buses which are converted to run on rails.

Could our Pacers be sold to developing countries or would they be too light weight? Obviously the 141s went to Iran but they were withdrawn and replaced by new Korean built DMUs so I doubt other Pacers could be sold to Iran even if Iran was willing to trade with the UK.

 

[Comstock]

Surely we should give them away if anything?
Even then I would have qualms about saddling foreign railways with something so old.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Developing countries are much more likely to use LHCS - you can "mix and match" when things go wrong, the engines etc are much more accessible, and it's all a bit simpler. And labour is cheap, so traditional style operation is affordable.

 

[northwichcat]

Developing countries are much more likely to use LHCS - you can "mix and match" when things go wrong, the engines etc are much more accessible, and it's all a bit simpler. And labour is cheap, so traditional style operation is affordable.

Well yes in some developing countries freight is a higher priority than passenger with freight obviously needing locos, in some cases the passenger service is a carriage attached to a freight train.

 

[Polarbear]

It's certainly possible given that some 141's were sold to Iran a few years back.

There's a thread about this - noted is the final post where I said I'd try to find out a bit more information on the 141's in Iran. It appears they were withdrawn in around 2004-05 when new DMU's were delivered.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=76653

 

[rf_ioliver]

After reading some of the other threads, I get the opinion that Northern Rail would be interested in any cast off Bolivian trains as an improvement

 

[duesselmartin]

some European countries could also use rolling stock. A lot of German and Swedish stock went in the past to the Balkans.

 

[Ash Bridge]

some European countries could also use rolling stock. A lot of German and Swedish stock went in the past to the Balkans.

My wife is Bulgarian and when we travel on a 142 Pacer and I start to complain she tells me off saying that this is luxury compared to some of the trains she had used in Bulgaria, having made a journey there back in April apart from the locomotive which was a vintage Skoda electric the two coaches were former DB vehicles which were probably older than a BR Pacer.

 

[northwichcat]

After reading some of the other threads, I get the opinion that Northern Rail would be interested in any cast off Bolivian trains as an improvement

The unions wouldn't like them though.

They have bus controls for the driver not train controls, the driver spoke about it being a strange experience to drive one of them but he let the presenter have a go at driving under his close supervision.

Also any luggage goes in a rack on the roof of the vehicle.
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My wife is Bulgarian and when we travel on a 142 Pacer and I start to complain she tells me off saying that this is luxury compared to some of the trains she had used in Bulgaria, having made a journey there back in April apart from the locomotive which was a vintage Skoda electric the two coaches were former DB vehicles which were probably older than a BR Pacer.

Age isn't the only problem with Pacers, which is why so many people were pushing for Pacers to be replaced during the next Northern franchise but there have been less calls for 150s to be replaced (despite being the same age as 142s.)

 

[gazthomas]

Would the UN charge us with exporting weapons of mass distructon?

 

[northwichcat]

Surely we should give them away if anything?

Normally anything 'given away' is sold for a nominal value of £1, $1, €1 etc.

 

[Jonny]

Would the UN charge us with exporting weapons of mass distructon?

Oh, you mean mass destruction:-P but quite probably yes.

Seriously though, pacers don't belong in a developed country.
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My wife is Bulgarian and when we travel on a 142 Pacer and I start to complain she tells me off saying that this is luxury compared to some of the trains she had used in Bulgaria, having made a journey there back in April apart from the locomotive which was a vintage Skoda electric the two coaches were former DB vehicles which were probably older than a BR Pacer.

In seating terms maybe, but (assuming proper maintenance and possibly a lack of power doors) the Bulgarian stock would probably be better.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

Such a matter as asked in the thread title would be seem to be patronising in the extreme, noting the product concerned...:roll:

 

[Ianigsy]

"Developing" need not preclude countries which are rebuilding following a period of war and any costs could be written off against the foreign aid budget. There are also enough of them around that if you were sending 20 to, say, Kosovo, you could also send a good supply of spares.

 

[Ash Bridge]

I would agree, the old German coaches felt very much like unrebuilt mk1s in terms of ride, ambience, very similar sounds when braking and even smell!

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

"Developing" need not preclude countries which are rebuilding following a period of war and any costs could be written off against the foreign aid budget. There are also enough of them around that if you were sending 20 to, say, Kosovo, you could also send a good supply of spares.

With these units being of the non-bogied variety, noting what you say above about after the period after a war, civil or otherwise, would you really trust these units to run with any degree of accepted safety on the railways of such areas?

 

[dgl]

Normally anything 'given away' is sold for a nominal value of £1, $1, €1 etc.

Better give them away for free, if they even paid £1 for them then they will have right to complain when they realise just how rubbish they are

Plus I think £1 overvalues them a bit.

 

[northwichcat]

Better give them away for free, if they even paid £1 for them then they will have right to complain when they realise just how rubbish they are

Plus I think £1 overvalues them a bit.

A lot of things with little to no value are put up for sale for £1 - the Island Line trains were, Woolworths was and a number of derelict inner city houses have been, while Merseytravel acquired the U-Boat on display in Birkenhead for €1. Maybe a small transfer is for legal protection to prove ownership has transferred?

 

[Bletchleyite]

A lot of things with little to no value are put up for sale for £1 - the Island Line trains were, Woolworths was and a number of derelict inner city houses have been, while Merseytravel acquired the U-Boat on display in Birkenhead for €1. Maybe a small transfer is for legal protection to prove ownership has transferred?

Yes, it's basically that for a contract to exist there must be a consideration paid.

 

[gazthomas]

Oh, you mean mass destruction:-P but quite probably yes.

I do, apologies for my dubious eye sight!
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Yes, it's basically that for a contract to exist there must be a consideration paid.

Spot on, in common law contracts there must be a financial consideration, gifts would not have the same peotection