Railcard app planned by ATOC

[Agent_c]

Are battery problems a significant issue in the numerous places across the world with bus and train tickets on mobile devices?

I have on occasion struggled to keep enough charge on my phone to board the bus home.... And frequently have had then die on the bus (putting me in **** creek if an inspector was to board).

However, since then I've bought a cheap battery case on Amazon and had no further issues.

 

[34D]

Surely we just want the discount entitlement to be able to be loaded onto any itso card, and then that same card used to load tickets onto?

Don't see why a phone app is needed.

With family railcard, can both people download the railcard onto their phones?
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

and almost everyone carries a smart phone nowadays.

I don't actually agree with this. Any official stats?

I'd guess 60% of the population, rising to say 80% of 11-60 year olds?

My own parents (mid 60s) don't know how to read SMS messages for example, let alone anything else.

 

[jon0844]

Smartcards (or storing data on a phone) is certainly the 'end game'. But mobile ticketing with codes serves a purpose until the industry can sort the mess out.

 

[gray1404]

Personally, I am going to stick to a hard copy. At least what way I can avoid a situation whereby I am unable to load it onto the phone due to battery, singal, signal or phone issues. Although, when my railcard runs out next and in the weeks leading up to it, I am expecting to be overseas and shall be needing to make a rail journey when I land back into the UK, so I might be interested in this as a one off (but I would hope to be able to have both a hard and electronic copy - although I think this is unlikely)

 

[34D]

Also, it's all well and good having iPhone and Android apps, but what about the rarer smart phone types: Windows Phone and BlackBerry (both 7 and 10) to name but two?

BlackBerry 10 phones can load some android apps but it's variable.

 

[Haywain]

Personally, I am going to stick to a hard copy. At least what way I can avoid a situation whereby I am unable to load it onto the phone due to battery, singal, signal or phone issues. Although, when my railcard runs out next and in the weeks leading up to it, I am expecting to be overseas and shall be needing to make a rail journey when I land back into the UK, so I might be interested in this as a one off (but I would hope to be able to have both a hard and electronic copy - although I think this is unlikely)

Signal issues are not relevant:

Once downloaded, the app won’t need an internet connection, and will be available offline to show to staff on the train or at the station

 

[jon0844]

Also, it's all well and good having iPhone and Android apps, but what about the rarer smart phone types: Windows Phone and BlackBerry (both 7 and 10) to name but two?

BlackBerry 10 phones can load some android apps but it's variable.

This is indeed a problem, and one I raised recently when our council decided to promote m-tickets for an app only on iOS and Android. Therefore, some tickets aren't available to Joe Public unless they change platform, or indeed buy a smartphone if they don't have one at all.

I assume that ATOC will still provide normal plastic cards, whereas some bus tickets are ONLY available if you use the app (which also means you need a debit/credit card).

I have no idea how much of a future Windows Phone (or Windows 10 for Mobile) has given its complete failure to gain traction over the years, and Microsoft clearly deciding its future is to release apps for all key platforms, thus making it relatively easy to ditch it one day if it decides to throw in the towel.

And BlackBerry is imminently releasing its first Android device, the Priv, which may well be the device to 'save' the company, and ultimately solves the issue of lack of apps by letting BB concentrate on security, the Hub and its own apps, while letting Google take care of the apps and content side.

As for other platforms, Firefox OS, Sailfish, Tizen etc - I think we can forget about any support there too.

 

[greatkingrat]

And BlackBerry is imminently releasing its first Android device, the Priv, which may well be the device to 'save' the company

Presumably designed for rail staff

 

[Puffing Devil]

Railcard stays in my wallet 24/7 - along with my footy season ticket cards. Wouldn't want to rely on a phone battery in a potentially expensive situation.

 

[monsento]

has anyone ever thought or looked into a nationwide smartcard, with a photo id, with concessions that can be added, and where tickets can be picked up when you tag on at a gate or tap a ticket machine?

 

[infobleep]

So instead of "my battery was flat" it will be "there wasn't a socket on the Pacer"!

Or my VTEC service!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why are Network Rail Cards excluded? I assume Gold Cards are excluded because for people outside of London, it's on your season ticket.

This does suggests though that it will be an either or. So paper card or electronic one but not both. Both might be open to fraud as you could lend your paper one and use the electronic one.

Perhaps they could later expand the app to include season tickets so that Gold Cards could be used. Would require people to always be let through barriers manually.

 

[monsento]

further to adding a smart card, could they not scrap paper tickets altogether a national smartcard photocard / travelcard would be great.

although someone would need to design a handheld reader with a long battery life.

could then also be rolled out onto buses, the tech exists, would be a revolution, concessions, staff travel, season tickets plus bus etc all under one umbrella controlled.

two devices

further thinking the battery life would not be a problem need only be exclusively for reading the information with a black and white screen, perhaps a green light as well to show it had been tagged on as well.

with a iphone pos , travelling without a ticket you have to do as now but get a one shot ticket, for say £5 on top.

 

[Merseysider]

Or my VTEC service!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Why are Network Rail Cards excluded? I assume Gold Cards are excluded because for people outside of London, it's on your season ticket.

This does suggests though that it will be an either or. So paper card or electronic one but not both. Both might be open to fraud as you could lend your paper one and use the electronic one.

Perhaps they could later expand the app to include season tickets so that Gold Cards could be used. Would require people to always be let through barriers manually.

I disagree with the point I've emboldened. Deutsche Bahn has just released an update for the DB app which allows users to buy and download the Bahncard direct to the mobile phone, and one receives a paper copy in the post too.

Maybe us Brits aren't as trustworthy?

Anyway, the technology is clearly there so if ATOC are serious about this I'd expect it to be trialled/rolled out sooner rather than later.

 

[gray1404]

I disagree with the point I've emboldened. Deutsche Bahn has just released an update for the DB app which allows users to buy and download the Bahncard direct to the mobile phone, and one receives a paper copy in the post too.

Maybe us Brits aren't as trustworthy?

Anyway, the technology is clearly there so if ATOC are serious about this I'd expect it to be trialled/rolled out sooner rather than later.

I agree that customers should have both a paper and electronic card, but I could see it being abused here. We have no way of telling at the moment what they are going to decide and I doubt anything DB do will have any bering on what we have here. Waiting more info from Atoc................

 

[kieron]

Why are Network Rail Cards excluded? I assume Gold Cards are excluded because for people outside of London, it's on your season ticket.

Don't know, but they're treated differently to the national railcards now. You can't buy them on-line, for example.

 

[Hadders]

Don't know, but they're treated differently to the national railcards now. You can't buy them on-line, for example.

You can buy a Network Railcard on-line from GTR's website.

I think that technically the Network Railcard is a National Railcard because it is available to anyone, not just people living in a defined geographic area as local railcards are.

 

[Daz28]

Also, it's all well and good having iPhone and Android apps, but what about the rarer smart phone types: Windows Phone and BlackBerry (both 7 and 10) to name but two?

BlackBerry 10 phones can load some android apps but it's variable.

Windows phone is included, Blackberry isn't.

 

[anme]

Also, it's all well and good having iPhone and Android apps, but what about the rarer smart phone types: Windows Phone and BlackBerry (both 7 and 10) to name but two?

BlackBerry 10 phones can load some android apps but it's variable.

No problem - they can continue to use paper railcards.

If we refuse to roll out new technology until it's perfect, can be used universally and works in every single situation, we will never make any progress.

 

[infobleep]

No problem - they can continue to use paper railcards.

If we refuse to roll out new technology until it's perfect, can be used universally and works in every single situation, we will never make any progress.

Nothing wrong with rolling it out early to some devices but not so good if they activity choose to ignore some devices.

You get this with people developing software for iPhone but not being bothered to make it available for Android.

Disability Rights UK, who administer the National Key Scheme to access disabled toilets got an app made that allowed you to locate toilets and submit any corrections. It may be that the app was released before Disability Rights UK tool over the administration of the scheme. I forget when they took over. You ever got the app produced only had it made for iOS devices and not Android. Given not everyone owns an iPhone, it wasn't helpful.

Initially they said their were plans for an Android app but nothing ever appeared. This would have been back around end of 2011.

I see the iPhone software was still their in May 2014 but by 2015 it had gone with no plans to develop apps and they have reverted back to only offering lists on paper, the last one being updated in 2013, according to their Web Site. All references to the app were of course removed but it's harder to remove references from external Web Sites!

I thought the idea was really good so a shame it was scraped. I like paper but seeing the locations on a map is so handy I don't know the full story as to why it was released and then scrapped as there would have been a cost in developing and building the software.

So back to the trains, if a scheme is introduced it would be good to have a reasonable coverage and device compatibility in due course and for it not to be abandoned after release.

 

[anme]

Nothing wrong with rolling it out early to some devices but not so good if they activity choose to ignore some devices.

SNIP

So back to the trains, if a scheme is introduced it would be good to have a reasonable coverage and device compatibility in due course and for it not to be abandoned after release.

I agree. Supporting Android and iOS will certainly give them reasonable coverage - probably 85%+. As I read in this thread, this is already planned so I don't see any problem. Windows Phone is comparatively strong in the UK compared to the rest of the world, so it might also be worthwhile. But how much further do you go? Is it really worth supporting Firefox, Tizen, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, etc which few people use? Remember that no-one is excluded from having a railcard, as paper tickets will still be available.

 

[infobleep]

I agree. Supporting Android and iOS will certainly give them reasonable coverage - probably 85%+. As I read in this thread, this is already planned so I don't see any problem. Windows Phone is comparatively strong in the UK compared to the rest of the world, so it might also be worthwhile. But how much further do you go? Is it really worth supporting Firefox, Tizen, Symbian, Windows Mobile, Blackberry, etc which few people use? Remember that no-one is excluded from having a railcard, as paper tickets will still be available.

I didn't know Firefox made devices. How about a mobile Web Site solution in addition then all non supported devices could also use it?

 

[anme]

I didn't know Firefox made devices.

They don't make devices themselves, but they are made by various manufacturers (a bit like Android) - see: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/

How about a mobile Web Site solution in addition then all non supported devices could also use it?

Nice idea, but needs some thought - a conventional mobile website will only work when data access is available.

 

[infobleep]

They don't make devices themselves, but they are made by various manufacturers (a bit like Android) - see: https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/os/devices/



Nice idea, but needs some thought - a conventional mobile website will only work when data access is available.

Good point.

 

[billc.cn]

The flat battery problem can easily be resolved by issuing a penalty fare that can be refunded if a rail card valid on that day is produced later.

Maybe the penalty fare can even come with a code that can be entered into the app to automatically process a refund.

 

[kieron]

You can buy a Network Railcard on-line from GTR's website.

I think that technically the Network Railcard is a National Railcard because it is available to anyone, not just people living in a defined geographic area as local railcards are.

I've seen that argument here before, and I know there are a couple of other railcards in the same situation. I haven't seen anything in a reputable source to say that being like that makes a card a national railcard, though.

By contrast, I have seen the press release linked to at the start of this thread, and other things along the same lines.