UK Steel Crisis

[DarloRich]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-34377756

BBC:

SSI Redcar steel plant mothballed, with the loss of 1,700 jobs

Whilst I know most of you will struggle to find Redcar on a map, those of us from the north east know what a blow this will be to an already economically disadvantaged region. It is disgraceful that the "party of the working man" has done nothing practical to try and save these jobs. Nothing. 1700 people at least out of work. Almost all of them with no prospects of other employment.

The government should be stepping in with temporary funding to see the works over a difficult period instead of hiding behind EU rules which our continental cousins seem able to bend at will. The Conservative party is not the party of working people, unless those people are bankers, stockbrokers or spivs. The sad fact is that these workers will now be signing on instead of crating a product that sould help drive the economic recovery of our country.

Shameful.


Where alchemists
Were born
Below Cleveland’s hills
A giant blue dragonfly
Across the Tees
Reminds us every night
We built the world,
Every metropolis
Came from
Ironopolis

(Ironopolis - Ian Horn)

 

[Kite159]

And how long would the taxpayer have to fund a private company who decided to mothball the works to keep the works open to keep everybody in work?

Should that be extended to everybody who losses their job as a result of site closure/company closing completely?

 

[DarloRich]

And how long would the taxpayer have to fund a private company who decided to mothball the works to keep the works open to keep everybody in work?

Should that be extended to everybody who losses their job as a result of site closure/company closing completely?

I'm all right jack eh? What is your solution? This is an economic asset to this country producing products that we need and use everyday. I assume you are happy for these people to now be a burden on the sate by adding even more people to the jobless total in Teesside? Or will you then complain that there are too many scroungers living off the state?


EDIT: Apologies if i seem rude or aggressive today but several members of my family and friends today find themselves out of work and people like Kite159 seem to feel that they are not worthy of support or of fighting for their jobs. That smug, casual, i'm all right jack approach to issues faced by decent hard working people makes my urine boil. If you don't agree with me suggest a way these jobs can be protected or alternative employment found in an already disadvantaged area. Don't simply dismiss genuine concerns with a glib response!

 

[455driver]

Other Countries manage to subsidise their industries (obviously they are still owned by firms based 'at home's) but we never seem to do it, letting the companies go to the wall with all the staff having to claim benefits whereas if the same amount of money as is spent on those benefits was used to subsidise the companies we would actually be better off because we wouldn't then need to import the stuff made at those companies and there would also be lots of tax paid by the workers and company.

 

[ainsworth74]

The government should be stepping in with temporary funding to see the works over a difficult period instead of hiding behind EU rules which our continental cousins seem able to bend at will. The Conservative party is not the party of working people, unless those people are bankers, stockbrokers or spivs.

I don't recall Labour doing bugger all for us when this happened last time. So I don't think it helps anyone to get party political about it as neither of them really care about heavy industry. Actually watching various Conservative ministers waffling on about how 'awful' this is and how 'important' SSI is to the UK economy was almost like watching the same interviews that Labour ministers gave when this happened in 2009.

Also, whilst it might a be a forlorn hope, I've not given up all hope as the plant is only mothballed at present so could be restarted in the future if the factors that have caused the present shut down abate (energy costs and the collapse in the price of the product being the main ones).

I was in Redcar High Street (such as it is ) a couple of Saturdays ago and was stunned by how busy it was compared to the last time I was there when the plant was mothballed. No doubt it'll go back to the same way again now.

At least the workers got their September paychecks (as this was in doubt at one point) though I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up going through the National Insurance Fund to get their redundancy payments.

 

[DarloRich]

I don't recall Labour doing bugger all for us when this happened last time. So I don't think it helps anyone to get party political about it as neither of them really care about heavy industry. Actually watching various Conservative ministers waffling on about how 'awful' this is and home 'important' SSI is to the UK economy was almost like watching the same interviews that Labour ministers gave when this happened in 2009.

Also, whilst it might a be a forlorn hope, I've not given up all hope as the plant is only mothballed at present so could be restarted in the future if the factors that have caused the present shut down abate (energy costs and the collapse in the price of the product being the main ones).

Agreed - and i would be making the same the comments about a Labour PM ( as i did then!)

The issue is that mothballing the blast furnace isn't as easy as switching it on and off. The SSI start up shows how long and how expensive these things are!

I noticed that James Wharton MP was on the radio suggesting that nationalisation of the steel industry wasn't an option! :roll: I am not sure anyone wants that but they did want some bridging finance to keep the plant open to see if a sensible route could be found to save the industry and keep people in jobs.

I notice the government are quiet on how their "task force" will find replacement work in one of the most unemployed areas in the country.........

 

[ainsworth74]

Agreed - and i would be making the same the comments about a Labour PM ( as i did then!)

Ah well as long as it's equal opportunities lambasting of our political overlords

The issue is that mothballing the blast furnace isn't as easy as switching it on and off. The SSI start up shows how long and how expensive these things are!

Aye very true. But still better than them closing it down and announcing a demolition date. Not sure I have the stomach to watch such a thing.

I noticed that James Wharton MP was on the radio suggesting that nationalisation of the steel industry wasn't an option! :roll: I am not sure anyone wants that but they did want some bridging finance to keep the plant open to see if a sensible route could be found to save the industry and keep people in jobs.

Indeed.

I notice the government are quiet on how their "task force" will find replacement work in one of the most unemployed areas in the country.........

I guess that's the same way that they're keeping quiet about the fact that national unemployment has been ticking back up again over the last couple of months.

 

[radamfi]

There are job gains and losses all the time. We only hear about job losses in the news when it is a big employer and when it affects heavy industry or manufacturing. Everyone else can fend for themselves. My large employer (at the time) shed thousands of jobs around 2010, but was it newsworthy? No. Apparently we don't need to sympathise when engineers lose their jobs. No job is guaranteed and the working world is unpredictable, but the flexibility in the labour market we have these days at least means employers are less afraid of taking people on.

 

[DarloRich]

There are job gains and losses all the time. We only hear about job losses in the news when it is a big employer and when it affects heavy industry or manufacturing. Everyone else can fend for themselves. My large employer (at the time) shed thousands of jobs around 2010, but was it newsworthy? No. Apparently we don't need to sympathise when engineers lose their jobs. No job is guaranteed and the working world is unpredictable, but the flexibility in the labour market we have these days at least means employers are less afraid of taking people on.

there are precious few job gains on Teesside.....................

 

[ainsworth74]

there are precious few job gains on Teesside.

The Gazette are usually trumpeting it from the rooftops when a company announces that they're creating a dozen or so new jobs.

 

[NSEFAN]

It is a big problem for the area. If you have mass unemployment, there will be a "brain drain" and those with any sense will leave for where the jobs are. If everyone could do this then it wouldn't be so bad, but a lot of people can't afford to move. Employers are less likely to set up businesses in the area because of the reducing skill set and increasing crime rate as unemployment rises. It's a spiral of decline but I don't know what the government can do to stop it, short of subsidising the industry and trying to encourage more business to the area until it can sustain itself. All the while you have to try and avoid the companies from recruiting abroad to undercut the locals.

 

[DarloRich]

I was in Redcar High Street (such as it is ) a couple of Saturdays ago and was stunned by how busy it was compared to the last time I was there when the plant was mothballed. No doubt it'll go back to the same way again now.

Is Pacittos still on the go?

At least the workers got their September paychecks (as this was in doubt at one point) though I wouldn't be surprised if they ended up going through the National Insurance Fund to get their redundancy payments.

i agree - i also hope their pensions are safe

 

[ainsworth74]

Is Pacittos still on the go?

They are indeed. Things aren't that apocalyptic round here just yet

Though I've heard some bad things about it being expensive and the service being a bit lackluster recently.

 

[DarloRich]

They are indeed. Things aren't that apocalyptic round here just yet

It is not all bad news then! While there is ice cream there is hope!

 

[radamfi]

It is often made out that the North East is a total economic wasteland whereas the south and London in particular has got all the jobs. But if you look at the unemployment stats broken down by region, there is little variation:

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02798/SN02798.pdf

 

[DarloRich]

It is often made out that the North East is a total economic wasteland whereas the south and London in particular has got all the jobs. But if you look at the unemployment stats broken down by region, there is little variation:

http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN02798/SN02798.pdf

Well everything is all right then isn't it? :roll: You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[radamfi]

Well everything is all right then isn't it? :roll: You have no idea what you are talking about.

So nobody should ever lose their job?

 

[DarloRich]

So nobody should ever lose their job?

don't be so bloody stupid. The important point is the chance of getting a similar job. There is little or no chance of that on Teesside. Those of us with knowledge of the North East know that any replacement jobs will be, despite what your precious statistics suggest, of a lower quality, requiring lower skills and offering a lower rate of pay.

 

[NSEFAN]

And being cynical, is it cheaper for the government to subsidise 1700 jobs or to pay 1700 to be on unemployment benefits?

 

[DarloRich]

And being cynical, is it cheaper for the government to subsidise 1700 jobs or to pay 1700 to be on unemployment benefits?

it isn't just 1700 is it? it is the knock on effect on the wider supply chain, support services and local economy.

 

[radamfi]

The important point is the chance of getting a similar job. There is little or no chance of that on Teesside. Those of us with knowledge of the North East know that any replacement jobs will be, despite what your precious statistics suggest, of a lower quality, requiring lower skills and offering a lower rate of pay.

But by that logic, anyone who loses a job because that type of job no longer exists would never work again. That would be the same in Teeside or London. That can often happen because of technological advancement, but also simply because nobody wants that product or service any more. People have to be prepared to retrain and have a number of "careers" during their working life.

 

[Tetchytyke]

The problems with Redcar stem back to when Corus was bought out by Tata Steel, only to be shut down just as soon as the Mistry family decided an Irish passport was of more benefit to them.

It's a tough one. I don't see that we should be spending money bailing out some Thai businessman who has plenty of his own dough to spend instead, but it's sad to see so many people lose their jobs, and it will devastate the town.

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

What is the current situation with the coking ovens on the site?

 

[ainsworth74]

What is the current situation with the coking ovens on the site?

South Bank is being mothballed whilst Redcar is continuing production.

 

[DarloRich]

But by that logic, anyone who loses a job because that type of job no longer exists would never work again. That would be the same in Teeside or London. That can often happen because of technological advancement, but also simply because nobody wants that product or service any more. People have to be prepared to retrain and have a number of "careers" during their working life.

the job still exists, the technology hasn't changed and the product is still in demand. I also notice you don't show one jot of concern for the people involved which doesn't surprise me. You comfortable Tory types always miss the point:

There is nothing to retrain in to nor are there enough facilitates to retrain or the money to do so. The north east doesn't have the kind of mixed, diverse and vibrant economy enjoyed in the south. While here in Milton Keynes I am sure we could absorb 1700 job losses and easily find new jobs in a similar business area you cant in the North East.

To suggest that simply retraining is the answer shows you have little or no grasp of the economic and social realities of life on Teesside and little desire to find out. But hey, Im all right Jack eh?

It's a tough one. I don't see that we should be spending money bailing out some Thai businessman who has plenty of his own dough to spend instead, but it's sad to see so many people lose their jobs, and it will devastate the town.

how do you support those people thrown out of work? What employment opportunities are there? Within a few months the Tory boys will be castigating them for being sponging lay about scum......

 

[crehld]

In other news 1700 people have lost their jobs and you are worried about whether you can cross the station off and what you can use the bloody site for.
argh!!!!!!!!!!!!

Quite the contrary. By proposing a new lease of life for the site (and its station) its future and economic wellbeing of those who have lost their jobs might be secured. Indeed it seems fitting and the right thing to do to ensure the continued success of a community which has a history of almost 200 years rather than let it die out ... Unless of course you'd be satisfied to simply state your dismay at the situation and leave those left jobless with no alternative?

 

[Buttsy]

Perhaps if the steel works is knocked down there will be a opportunity to rebuild Warrenby village which was knocked down in the late 70s to make way for a steel works expansion?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warrenby

 

[DarloRich]

Quite the contrary. By proposing a new lease of life for the site (and its station) its future and economic wellbeing of those who have lost their jobs might be secured. Indeed it seems fitting and the right thing to do to ensure the continued success of a community which has a history of almost 200 years rather than let it die out ... Unless of course you'd be satisfied to simply state your dismay at the situation and leave those left jobless with no alternative?

the site hasn't bloody well closed yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am out before I get banned. I will leave you all to it. I just wish some of you could look at what really matters and that isn't whether you can still get of the train at a small insignificant station.

 

[radamfi]

the job still exists, the technology hasn't changed and the product is still in demand. I also notice you don't show one joy of concern for the people involved which doesn't surprise me. You comfortable Tory types always miss the point:

There is nothing to retrain in to nor are there enough facilitates to retrain or the money to do so. The north east doesn't have the kind of mixed, diverse and vibrant economy enjoyed in the south. While here in Milton Keynes I am sure we could absorb 1700 job losses and easily find new jobs in a similar business area you cant in the North East.

To suggest that simply retraining is the answer shows you have little or no grasp of the economic and social realities of life on Teesside and little desire to find out. But hey, Im all right Jack eh?

Actually, the product is in less demand, hence the job cuts.

Where was the sympathy for me when I was made redundant twice in a year? What about my colleagues who lost their jobs in the recent recession? Most people don't get any sympathy or recognition from the media or politicians when they lose their job.

I'm not a "Tory type". I've never voted for them. I believe in high tax and spend, but liberal employment regulations. Basically like what they have in the most socialist part of Europe. In the "Flexicurity" model that is used in Denmark, employers can hire and fire at will, but workers get generous unemployment benefit and get good training to help them into a new job.

 

[DarloRich]

I apologise for calling you a Tory, that is unfair. The product is in demand - the market is flooded with subsidised products from China.

Having also lost my job and had to sign on i know how hard it is to find a new one even with lots of "transferable" skills. The training element is sadly lacking in this country!