Trains and the Rugby World Cup

[D1009]

Is this about the 26th? The gWr site says different.
"There will be no trains to South Wales after the match.

Getting home from Paddington

The last train from London Paddington is 23.30 to Bristol Temple Meads calling at Reading, Didcot Parkway, Swindon, Chippenham, Bath Spa.

Please remember to allow plenty of time to make your journey as trains will be very busy.

Getting home from Reading

The last train from Reading to Bristol Temple Meads is at 23:03.

The last train from Reading to Swindon is 00:06."

Edit> I don't understand the note about Reading to BRI at all.

I suspect the info from Real Time Trains is correct, but currently GWR are not advertising them.

 

[PHILIPE]

THEY ARE IN REAL TIME TRAINS.
Do TOCs always advertise everything on their Website ? These are last minute decisions.

 

[D1009]

The public message is there will be no trains back to Wales after the game, but there will be a proportion of people who don't read the message.

 

[jimm]

I suspect the info from Real Time Trains is correct, but currently GWR are not advertising them.

Advertise them and you will likely end up with rather more than 1,100 people trying to use them. Cue yet more abuse of GWR... like I said back up the thread, damned if you do, damned if you don't.

 

[plymothian]

Complaints are now appearing that rugby fans are getting special treatment with easements and trains pinched from other services.

 

[bnm]

Yes, whoever heard of a public transport provider providing a service to the travelling public?

The Rugby World Cup fixtures have been known for ages and for GWR not to provide advertised trains home to South Wales is atrocious.

Just to rub it in for the Rugby fans and show all where GWR's priorities lie, they've managed to rustle up stock for additional services to Newbury Racecourse for a staff jolly. :roll:

 

[father_jack]

Just to rub it in for the Rugby fans and show all where GWR's priorities lie, they've managed to rustle up stock for additional services to Newbury Racecourse for a MANAGEMENT jolly. :roll:

Corrected your quote. Most "staff" either can't get a Saturday off, won't use a free Saturday for something as daft as this or just don't want to go given current feelings towards the company..............

 

[atw driver]

I suppose there's no info available yet as to what date/s the strike will go ahead?

Talks still ongoing a very slightly improved offer by atw there seems a reluctance by some on the e.c to authorise action during the rugby world cup although this is not going down well with the drivers.
We shall see what happens during the talks next week.

 

[jimm]

Yes, whoever heard of a public transport provider providing a service to the travelling public?

The Rugby World Cup fixtures have been known for ages and for GWR not to provide advertised trains home to South Wales is atrocious.

Just to rub it in for the Rugby fans and show all where GWR's priorities lie, they've managed to rustle up stock for additional services to Newbury Racecourse for a staff jolly. :roll:

Ah yes, it's all the fault of the railways - and nothing at all to do with the people from the IRB and TV responsible for the scheduling of the games.

Who clearly gave not a moment's thought to how the Welsh supporters are meant to get home tonight.

It wouldn't matter if the entire GWR HST fleet was lined up at Paddington at 11pm tonight to whisk people home. Why the hell should the supporters be expected to get home in the middle of the night? Which is what is going to happen whether they are using a train, a coach or a car.

It doesn't matter how long you have to 'prepare'. Trains don't grow on trees.
If having time to prepare is all that is needed, perhaps you could explain to us why the M4 has not been widened/bypassed at Newport since the fixtures were announced in anticipation of the demands being placed on it by rugby fans? After all, the Rugby World Cup fixtures have been known for ages... never mind that the last time I looked, Cardiff was in Wales. So much for 'England 2015'.

GWR has rustled up additional stock aplenty since the tournament kicked off, just in case you hadn't noticed. Along with ATW and XC. That they have taken so much heat is also in large part down to the scheduling geniuses, who put three games into Cardiff and three into Gloucester in the first six days. We shall see how the other TOCs fare from today.

So are you saying that GWR should have cancelled today's staff event and the Cotswold Line Promotion Group's charter to Tenby in order that your precious rugby fans could have yet more trains?

Not everyone is interested in rugby union. Annual attendances at football matches across the UK are something north of 42 million, rugby union is just under 5 million, beaten by horse racing and equestrian events on 7 million. Rugby league, despite being concentrated in one part of the country, manages 2 million. And commuters are quite interested in getting home on their normal trains, with the normal complement of coaches, even if someone at ITV thinks 4.45pm midweek kick-offs are a good idea.

http://www2.deloitte.com/uk/en/page...es/67m-tickets-sold-for-uk-sports-events.html
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Talks still ongoing a very slightly improved offer by atw there seems a reluctance by some on the e.c to authorise action during the rugby world cup although this is not going down well with the drivers.
We shall see what happens during the talks next week.

If you want to talk about a dispute on ATW, perhaps do it in another thread, not here.

I'm not surprised there is reluctance to authorise action during the rugby, given that the Tories and their supporters in the press would have a field day. Cue days of headlines about blackmail, etc
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Corrected your quote. Most "staff" either can't get a Saturday off, won't use a free Saturday for something as daft as this or just don't want to go given current feelings towards the company..............

According to a post by 455 driver elsewhere it is also for families and even though he is not going, he says

TBH what they are advertising for this event it looks to be a bloomin good day out.

So there might just be one or two people there other than managers.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2310547

 

[bnm]

Jimm, would you care to tell me just what precisely a public transport provider is for?

The third largest sporting event in the world and we can't run a few extra trains for one of the fixtures? Why on earth not?

You shoot your own argument in the foot when saying extra stock can't be rustled up for RWC, but can be found for a staff jolly and a campaign group jolly.

And it's not getting the supporters home in the middle of the night at all. There's weekday services to Cardiff at 2245 and 2330.

Blame is indeed shared by the IRB, RFU and broadcasters, and I don't know who said 'no' to extra advertised trains (although I suspect it was the TOC/Network Rail), but rail is the best placed to move large numbers of people.

 

[father_jack]

According to a post by 455 driver elsewhere it is also for families and even though he is not going, he says

Quote:
TBH what they are advertising for this event it looks to be a bloomin good day out.



So there might just be one or two people there other than managers.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?p=2310547

Very selective in your quoting there Jimm......

455driver writ-

There is a staff and family event at the race course to celebrate all the wonderful things GWR are proposing to do with this new franchise, such as degrading some positions and making others redundant.

These are special trains to take the 4 staff who are actually turning up for the back slapping event (plus their families) home once they have had their FGW chip replaced with the GWR one!

Oh in case you hadn't guessed , I am not going!

TBH what they are advertising for this event it looks to be a bloomin good day out.

 

[jimm]

Jimm, would you care to tell me just what precisely a public transport provider is for?

The third largest sporting event in the world and we can't run a few extra trains for one of the fixtures? Why on earth not?

You shoot your own argument in the foot when saying extra stock can't be rustled up for RWC, but can be found for a staff jolly and a campaign group jolly.

And it's not getting the supporters home in the middle of the night at all. There's weekday services to Cardiff at 2245 and 2330.

Blame is indeed shared by the IRB, RFU and broadcasters, and I don't know who said 'no' to extra advertised trains (although I suspect it was the TOC/Network Rail), but rail is the best placed to move large numbers of people.

What is a public transport provider for? You seem to appear to believe it is to indulge the every whim of the IRB and ITV - then you say it is those bodies' fault that this game is being played when it is. Make your mind up.

A further illustration, as if one were needed, of the arrogance of the RWC organisers is the scheduling of England's game at the City of Manchester Stadium on October 10, the same evening as the Rugby League Super League final at Old Trafford. The Super League final has been played at Old Trafford on the second Saturday in October pretty much every year since 1999, so the RWC people can hardly claim it was a surprise to them that there would be a clash.

Still, I fully expect you to be demanding Herculean efforts from TPE, Northern, Virgin, XC and ATW on that occasion and berating them when they fail to meet your expectations. Because TPE, Northern and XC are of course well known for their lavish rolling stock resources and the leisurely way in which their trains are worked in the normal run of things. But I suppose ATW can send some Pacers north from the Valleys for the day...

It is the third biggest sporting event in the world according to its organisers - not an entirely unbiased source.

Lots of extra stock has been rustled up over the past week - as you know full well. But you appear to think that the 'needs' of rugby fans outweigh all other considerations. Well they don't. I hope all attending the GWR event and on the CLPG charter have a great day out.

So there's a weekday train to Cardiff at 22.45. People would have to get very lucky getting from Twickenham to Paddington or Reading to make that train were it running tonight on the basis of how long it took to clear the crowds last Friday. If you have any idea how many people might be planning to use a late-night train or trains to Wales tonight, advertised or otherwise, I'm sure GWR will be delighted to hear from you. And since when have 01.26 and 02.30 - the normal arrival times of those two weekday trains at Cardiff - not been the middle of the night?

Very selective in your quoting there Jimm......

Link was there for anyone who cared to look at the full post. We'd already had all the cynical stuff from you - and without the rider that 455 driver was under no obligation to add. Did the negativity need to be repeated? It's not as though anyone is being compelled to go to Newbury and sing the company song, is it?

And here are today's early entries for the 'how many years did they have to plan for this/what is a public transport provider for' hall of shame - London Midland and Virgin... with XC putting in another appearance and Network Rail getting on the act.

10:49 London Euston to Birmingham New Street due 13:02
Service full and standing from Rugby.

11:40 Hereford to Birmingham New Street due 13:09
Service full and standing from Worcester Foregate Street.

11:03 London Euston to Birmingham New Street due 12:27
Service full and standing from London Euston. First class is declassified in coach G.

The @crosscountryuk train I'm on to Taunton (it goes on to Glasgow) must be overcrowded. People standing/sitting in every available space.

A signalling problem between Bromsgrove and Ashchurch for Tewkesbury is causing delays of up to 30 minutes to journeys between Bromsgrove and Cheltenham Spa.
There is no firm estimate yet of how long disruption will last but it is likely to continue until at least 13:00.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Again, this is where TOCs need to actually stand up for themselves and explain their situation, rather than just issuing wishy-washy apologies and bending over ready for the shafting. Wouldn't it be refreshing if ATW responded by suggesting that if it is so unsatisfactory perhaps this man and his fellow politicians should do something about it?

That's biting the hand that feeds you.
(He does have significant influence on rail developments in Wales).
Not recommended.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I couldn't believe that when I saw it. I get that it is busy and there is a shortage of stock etc etc, but surely there could be something they could do for South Wales bound passengers after the match? It just seems bonkers that it is physically impossible to travel back by train afterwards.

Do you want the line electrified or not?
Network Rail has a little job on every night on the GW main line, and especially at weekends, to get all those gantries up!

 

[Shaggy]

Corrected your quote. Most "staff" either can't get a Saturday off, won't use a free Saturday for something as daft as this or just don't want to go given current feelings towards the company..............

Yawn.

Quite a lot of "staff" are going today so it's a shame your narrative doesn't quite hold true.

Employer puts on goodwill event for staff. How "daft" of them.

 

[bnm]

Employer puts on goodwill event for staff. How "daft" of them.

But can't be arsed to be demand responsive for large numbers of the public who could use its network to get home after a major event.

And Jimm, I care not one jot that it's Rugby. I'd be making the same points if was any other major event that required a transport provider to actually step up and provide transport. GWR do very well moving people to and from Castle Cary and Reading, with advertised additionals, for major events. But tonight's odd shaped ball game, long known about, is apparently beyond their coping.

That GWR have actually scheduled two unadvertised services tonight from Paddington to South Wales is evidence enough for me that they lacked foresight and have conceded they need to provide a service.

 

[VisualAcid]

Apparently some intermediate stops have been cancelled, so it's impossible to get back to Swindon tonight and other places? That's awful really.

 

[HowardGWR]

Apparently some intermediate stops have been cancelled, so it's impossible to get back to Swindon tonight and other places? That's awful really.

According to RTT the 2330 (stations to BRI via Bath) will and the 2359 will get you to Swindon, Newport and Cardiff (arr 0302).

I just don't understand why the gWr website only last night said there would be no train to Cardiff when there will be.


I followed the argy bargy between BNM and Jimm, but nothing explains the above in terms of management, planning, PR, or anything else.

update: The website still says
"There will be no trains to South Wales after the match."

!!!!!!

 

[PHILIPE]

RTT is showing 23 30 to Bristol running normally and also a 23 30 to Cardiff with the same Headcode. They both can't run. I think GWR have panicked to provide a late train due to a possible expectation that passengers will turn up if only to wait for the first train in the morning. There may be possible problems tomorrow.
It has been published that the last train from Reading to Bristol TM will be 23 03 so that would indicate they require to leave room on the 23 30 for Rugby fans to join.
Not everything gets put on the Website and, in any case, this is the weekend so no day staff there (At Newbury, perhaps). Re Website info, ATW never publish anything on their Website as they take the view that it is not for the TOC to inform people, but for the people to find out for themselves. Any queries, and you get them on Twitter, one is directed to Journey Planner.

Re Journey Planner in this case, passengers are given the 23 30 and wait at Bristol for connection at 08 48. There is no train at 23 59 shown.


.

 

[HowardGWR]

There is no train at 23 59 shown.


.

Yes there is. I'm looking at it.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O28683/2015/09/26/advanced

 

[PHILIPE]

Yes there is. I'm looking at it.
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/O28683/2015/09/26/advanced

Real Time Trains, yes. I was referring to Journey Planner.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

GWR Twitter says Website updated, but I can't find anything. Still says no trains. From snippets picked up here and there, possibly 23 30 running to Cardiff (via Gloucester) and 00 15 Reading to Bristol TM in lieu.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Looking at RTT for Reading, 23 30 going to Cardiff and 00 13 1Z36 thence to Bristol T.M.

 

[Groningen]

The last train west today from London Paddington is according to the Bahn website this train:

London Paddington 23:30
Reading 00:04 - 00:06
Didcot Parkway 00:21 - 00:21
Swindon 00:40 - 00:41
Chippenham 00:55 - 00:56
Bath Spa 01:10 - 01:12
Bristol Temple Meads 01:24

 

[PHILIPE]

The last train west today from London Paddington is according to the Bahn website this train:

London Paddington 23:30
Reading 00:04 - 00:06
Didcot Parkway 00:21 - 00:21
Swindon 00:40 - 00:41
Chippenham 00:55 - 00:56
Bath Spa 01:10 - 01:12
Bristol Temple Meads 01:24

Out of date, it would appear. This can happen when last minute alterations are being organised.

 

[D1009]

Just to clarify, 1C36 2330 Paddington to Bristol is being diverted from Swindon via Gloucester to Cardiff, running non stop from Swindon to Newport. I presume there is engineering work on the direct route. In its place there is a 1Z36 0048 Swindon to Bristol TM calling as usual.

 

[jimm]

But can't be arsed to be demand responsive for large numbers of the public who could use its network to get home after a major event.

And Jimm, I care not one jot that it's Rugby. I'd be making the same points if was any other major event that required a transport provider to actually step up and provide transport. GWR do very well moving people to and from Castle Cary and Reading, with advertised additionals, for major events. But tonight's odd shaped ball game, long known about, is apparently beyond their coping.

That GWR have actually scheduled two unadvertised services tonight from Paddington to South Wales is evidence enough for me that they lacked foresight and have conceded they need to provide a service.

While you're busy pillorying GWR, what trains are running out of other London stations tonight for all the England fans - or Wales fans living in England - wishing to get home?

Last northbound Virgin service from Euston to anywhere - in this case Wolverhampton - is at 21.43 - probably before the game even finishes. LM is running its usual 22.34, 23.04 and 23.44 to Northampton. That's it.

The last Chiltern train to Birmingham is 22.08. After that, the furthest you can get is Banbury, usual booked trains. No extras.

Last EMT service to Leicester and Derby is at 22.26, so unless someone has got a helicopter, I don't rate their chances of getting there from Twickenham in time. After that, Bedford is as far as you get.

Last VXEC is for Leeds on the dot of 22.00. After that nothing beyond Peterborough (last train 23.22) or Cambridge (23.05).

Which suggests plenty of other TOCs can't be arsed either/that Wales supporters are not being uniquely persecuted.

Or that it was just a stupid time to schedule the match in the first place. But the people who decided that clearly couldn't be arsed to think about how the fans might get home. Maybe they should step up and think about the consequences of their actions for other people, transport providers, et al - rather than being blinded by pound signs, as they so clearly are.

 

[PHILIPE]

Just to clarify, 1C36 2330 Paddington to Bristol is being diverted from Swindon via Gloucester to Cardiff, running non stop from Swindon to Newport. I presume there is engineering work on the direct route. In its place there is a 1Z36 0048 Swindon to Bristol TM calling as usual.

1Z36 is 0013 ex Reading according to RTT. Ask FGW Twitter team and they insist there are no trains to Cardiff and that the 23 30 is going to Bristol TM as normal. FGW Journey Check states that 23 30 Paddington to Bristol expected to start 2 mins late due to overcrowding. The info on these arrangements is atrocious and a typical case of the left not knowing what the right hand is doing.

 

[jimm]

1Z36 is 0013 ex Reading according to RTT. Ask FGW Twiter team and they insts there are no trains to Cardiff and that the 23 30 is going to Bristol TM as normal. FGW Journey Check states that 23 30 Paddington to Bristol expected to start 2 mins late due to overcrowding. The info on these arrangements is atrocious and a typical case of the left not knowing what the right hand is doing.

Appears they are not going to admit there is a train (or trains) to Cardiff as they don't want 3,000 people to turn up at Paddington expecting to travel if there's only capacity to shift a fraction of that number. They would have been better off sticking to their guns and not running anything.

 

[D1009]

1Z36 is 0013 ex Reading according to RTT. Ask FGW Twiter team and they insts there are no trains to Cardiff and that the 23 30 is going to Bristol TM as normal. FGW Journey Check states that 23 30 Paddington to Bristol expected to start 2 mins late due to overcrowding. The info on these arrangements is atrocious and a typical case of the left not knowing what the right hand is doing.

There's actually 2 schedules in for 1Z36, an 0013 Reading and an 0048 Swindon. I'm sure there was only one when I checked half an hour ago.

 

[father_jack]

There's actually 2 schedules in for 1Z36, an 0013 Reading and an 0048 Swindon. I'm sure there was only one when I checked half an hour ago.

The 2330 to BRI is booked route.

The other specials appear not be running.

 

[PHILIPE]

The 2330 to BRI is booked route.

The other specials appear not be running.

What is your source of info for this in view of RTT

 

[bnm]

From WalesOnline:

Rugby World Cup 2015: Welsh rugby fans left stranded in London while rail bosses put on extra trains for staff party at Newbury Racecourse

A Great Western Railway employee has revealed extra trains will take managers to a Victorian funfair-themed party today.

A Great Western Railway worker has said he is “ashamed” of the company which is putting on extra trains for staff to attend a party today – while leaving Welsh rugby fans stranded in London.

The individual, who asked to remain anonymous fearing disciplinary action, claimed additional trains will allow management to enjoy a “Victorian funfair” themed party at Newbury Racecourse.

Yet spectators at the 8pm England v Wales Rugby World Cup match need to find alternative transport or make an overnight stop as the last train back to Cardiff leaves London Paddington at 10pm – just half an hour after the game finishes.

he worker said: “The fact there are no extra trains being put on for rugby fans is bewildering.”

Operator calls claims 'mischief-making'

A later train leaves at 11.30pm but passengers would be forced to wait at Bristol for more than seven hours for a connection before returning to Cardiff around 9.30am on Sunday.

Operator calls claims 'mischief-making'

A spokesman for Great Western Railway – the new name for First Great Western – dismissed claims the party was preventing the company from providing extra trains for rugby fans as “rubbish” and “union mischief-making”.

Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers Union walked out during the August bank holiday over plans to remove guards from new high-speed trains and changes to catering services.

The anonymous source said invites for today’s party were sent out during the strike – a move which he described as “insensitive”.

Eight-coach train for staff

He said he believed the event was a re-branding party that would be attended by members of management plus their friends and family.

He claimed a high-speed train comprising eight coaches with a capacity for 700 people would run from Swansea to Newbury via Bristol Parkway and Swindon and back to ferry guests to the party.

According to the source two drivers and two guards would be needed to operate the train but he claimed many frontline staff had boycotted the event.

Strife for fans

Great Western Railway have previously provided extra trains for Glastonbury and Cheltenham Races but the employee believes services for the rugby have been “managed poorly”.

“There are so many examples,” he said, citing the example of the Argentina v Georgia game at the Kingsholm Stadium in Gloucester on Friday.

“Hundreds of Argentina fans were waiting at Swindon. A small two-carriage train arrived and crowds of them were left on the platform. Then the next train was completely full.”

'Enough trains available'

Dan Panes, a spokesman for Great Western Railway, confirmed a “staff recognition event” was taking place today and two trains had been arranged to transport those attending.

He said the event had been deliberately planned not to impact on rugby services and would have no bearing on the company’s ability to take fans back to Wales after the game.

He added: “We have already scheduled additional trains to and from the rugby and have more on standby if needed. There are enough trains available to cater for demand.”

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/rugby-world-cup-2015-welsh-10138899

A lick of paint and a change of name doesn't change the management culture. FGW/GWR don't seem to be doing the PR very well at the moment. I'm really struggling to understand why their efforts for the RWC are so woeful when they've shown in the past how good they can be in organising additional services for major events. Asia transport provider they need to be more proactive and not rely on others to do the asking. Otherwise you end up as we have today. Last minute plans, poorly conmunicated, frustrated travellers and more negative press.

Rustling up additional trains today for a staff jolly does not look good either.