Trivia; do trains ever not make it up the hill?

[Howardh]

With ice, leaves, overcrowded trains etc, I just wondered if there are any occasions in the recent past where a train (passenger or goods) simply couldn't manage a steep incline, and what happened?

Also what could be considered the maximum incline for our normal passenger trains?

 

[DarloRich]

yes - happens more often than you might think and not always on "big" gradients

 

[sonorguy]

As I recall the Lickey Incline, just south of Birmingham is the steepest at 1 in 37. There are lots of videos on Youtube of storming performances by both steam and diesel trains getting up the hill, including the banking engines which are still stationed to assist if needed.

 

[Howardh]

yes - happens more often than you might think and not always on "big" gradients

Intriguing! Go on....

 

[AndyJB]

The already mentioned Lickey Incline has had it's share.

One from 'recent' memory was in 1991, the leading loco on a Gloucester - Bescot Speedlink service came to a standstill on the incline. 37197 was banking said train, but couldn't could the weight of the train, which rolled back down the incline and 37197 subsequently derailed on the catch-points.

Found a video recorded shortly subsequent to the derailment here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Z5Qc-ZPgXY

And so far as the Lickey incline itself is concerned, it certainly used to tax a few loco hauled services and frieghts; I recall once being on a well loaded (and unbanked) 47/4 hauled service to Birmingham which, despite taking a run at it, had been reduced to somewhere around 15mph by the time we were just under halfway up.

 

[TheEdge]

One that was an absolute farce for multiple reasons a few years ago was when a steam special hauled by Tangmere and 76079 stalled quite spectacularly at the top of the bank between Exeter St Davids and Central.

[YOUTUBE]pOqqf-cbqQk[/YOUTUBE]

 

[507 001]

On a couple of occasions this year steam specials have failed to make it up the Conwy Valley Line to Blaenau Ffestiniog.......

 

[tsr]

I concur with DarloRich. Every year there's at least one or two days when trains become quite significantly unhappy with the journey from Redhill to Gomshall-ish, due to leaves, water, ice or a combination thereof. I've known severe delays to occur just between Redhill and Reigate, which is at a gradient but isn't renowned for being especially steep.

 

[edwin_m]

As I recall the Lickey Incline, just south of Birmingham is the steepest at 1 in 37. There are lots of videos on Youtube of storming performances by both steam and diesel trains getting up the hill, including the banking engines which are still stationed to assist if needed.

Banking engines haven't been permanently stationed at Bromsgrove for several years. They travel there when a freight train is scheduled to require assistance (so aren't immediately available if a train unexpectedly can't manage the gradient).

 

[HarleyDavidson]

Numerous times between:

Guildford & Horsley, Guildford & Wanborough, Milford (Sy) & Haslemere, Effingham & Horsley, Camberley/Bagshot and Ascot & v.v, Sunningdale & Ascot are the more frequent ones on the SW patch, some on the Bournemouth mainline too.

Been stuck a few times in the past and even gone backwards whilst in power on one or two occasions. :roll:

 

[306024]

A single class 90 on a heavy freightliner can struggle up Brentwood Bank, 1:80 the steepest point and some have come to grief in the past. Crossing trains between mains and electrics at the 25mph Gidea Park Jn at the foot of the bank is not recommended.

 

[Howardh]

Fascinating!

 

[matchmaker]

I think the Highland Sleeper has come to grief a few times due to poor adhesion at Shap or Beattock.

 

[GrimsbyPacer]

One of my elder brothers worked on trains as a trolley person over a decade ago.
He said near Birmingham the train couldn't go up a hill, so another train was called to help but couldn't. As a result he was forced to put the actual trolleys in a taxi later on which was silly.

 

[Kneedown]

Bentinck Colliery in Nottinghamshire was famous for it. With a pair of 20's, a 56 or 58 you had to have a good, spirited run up the hill to the loader and it often took two or three goes. It wasn't until the class 60's appeared that we could get the train up there in one go at a more suitable speed.
Departing Silverhill and Calverton Collieries could be interesting too, especially if one of the 20's decided to overload, or if the 58 had blocked sand pipes.

 

[Townsend Hook]

I remember back when South Central was first introducing its class 375s (later converted to 377s) to Coastway services they had severe problems climbing the bank up to Portsmouth & S'sea high level.

 

[philjo]

I was on a WAGN 317 that took about 20 minutes to get up the hill from Hitchin to Letchworth (normal journey about 4 mins) - it was a particularly wet day in leaf fall season. We kept coming to a stand and sliding back but got there eventually. This was a 4 coach unit - for the rest of that week the 317s all ran as 8 cars. I think this was before the sanders were fitted to the 317s.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Iv done my share of runs up the highland mainline and wondered on more than 1 occasion if Id make it. Of course a number of facters will have been at work here but 1 of said facters is without a doubt the totally unsuitable 170s. Its an experience I wouldnt recommend esp in winter!

 

[physics34]

Took me 45 mins to get a 456 up the hill from North Dulwich to Tulse Hill once in leaffall.

 

[47271]

Iv done my share of runs up the highland mainline and wondered on more than 1 occasion if Id make it. Of course a number of facters will have been at work here but 1 of said facters is without a doubt the totally unsuitable 170s. Its an experience I wouldnt recommend esp in winter!

If they lose power on an engine on the way north - not an unusual problem - then that's the service cancelled at Perth, they can't go on the HML with only two. Thankfully I've never been on one that's conked out north of Perth, but I imagine it couldn't get up the hill. They're not exactly speedy even with all three going.

 

[RichardN]

I've been on a 319 which needed a push to help it up from City Thameslink to Blackfriars. One traction motor had failed.

 

[dk1]

A single class 90 on a heavy freightliner can struggle up Brentwood Bank, 1:80 the steepest point and some have come to grief in the past. Crossing trains between mains and electrics at the 25mph Gidea Park Jn at the foot of the bank is not recommended.

Beat me too it. Last year I got switched to the DE at Gidea due to a GBRf 66 in great difficulty. Sparks & smoke as I passed & expected if it did make it to Shenfield it would be a failure. Upon checking RTT later to see if it made it, it not only did but kept going & lost no further time to Ipswich.

 

[Blindtraveler]

If they lose power on an engine on the way north - not an unusual problem - then that's the service cancelled at Perth, they can't go on the HML with only two. Thankfully I've never been on one that's conked out north of Perth, but I imagine it couldn't get up the hill. They're not exactly speedy even with all three going.

Yet the 10:36x EDB and the 10:45x INV are both booked 2x 158 and hardly puff? Madness!

 

[Deepgreen]

It's a pretty frequent problem, actually. There have been numerous steam specials which have stalled, despite skilled driving efforts. Autumn is the worst time for any train to tackle gradients owing to leaf fall, dampness and generally poor adhesion. The North Downs line from Redhill to Guildford suffers badly, but a huge tree felling exercise has been carried out this summer, so it may be better this autumn. I'm surprised more Thameslinks haven't come to grief at Blackfriars on the 1 in 29 gradient there.

 

[Blindtraveler]

Last time I used the core the 319 barely applied any power leaving towards STP on that bit so yes its amazing!

 

[TheNewNo2]

Not a main line story, but a few years ago my parents were on a West Somerset Railway train which couldn't make it back from Minehead to Bishops Lydeard under its own power.

 

[CharlieSpotted]

As I recall the Lickey Incline, just south of Birmingham is the steepest at 1 in 37. There are lots of videos on Youtube of storming performances by both steam and diesel trains getting up the hill, including the banking engines which are still stationed to assist if needed.

Off Topic, I've just been to look at some of these Lickey Incline vids and come across this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTjEp2Ry6lc

There seem to be a few similar examples of ahem 'tones' and the commenters/enthusiasts seem to enjoy it... (It seems to be for their benefit...)

I can't imagine the driver's employers would be too happy if they saw it, though?
Aren't there rules about how you're supposed to use the horns? Surely!

 

[Howardh]

Think the old trams used sand to get a grip on slimy rails. Are there any instances of trains carrring sand just to help them through any known and troublesome slippery bits?

 

[EssexGonzo]

Beat me too it. Last year I got switched to the DE at Gidea due to a GBRf 66 in great difficulty. Sparks & smoke as I passed & expected if it did make it to Shenfield it would be a failure. Upon checking RTT later to see if it made it, it not only did but kept going & lost no further time to Ipswich.

I live about 250m as the crow flies from the cutting between Shenfield and Brentwood, about half a mile south of Shenfield station. On a normal day you normally, just about hear the electric traffic if you're outside but we can regularly hear the freight trains from inside the house in spite of there being two roads and four rows of houses between us and the deep cutting, some of which don't sound happy! Not so much the wagons, but the locos working hard.

I now realise why, when stood on the platform at Shenfield, the northbound freight locos pass through slowly but on what sounds like full throttle, smoking heavily!

 

[Philip C]

Whilst on holiday in Turkey, around thirty years ago, I was on a train from Selçuk to Denizli which came to a halt on a steep gradient and, after some delay, backed off and took a fresh run at it. I seem to remember losing an hour or so in this procedure.