East Midlands Trains direct award announced

[chubs]

And the current portion-worked setup seems to work, though I can see a future need for 6-car (2 on to Norwich).

They could do with 8 cars, 4 on to Norwich as it is on a lot of services...

(unless you like being rammed in a 158)

 

[TEW]

The last few times I have travelled on East Midlands, the "buffet" has just been the Rail Gourmet trolley parked up in the buffet area.

That's all the weekend 'buffet service' ever is.

 

[Mojo]

That's all the weekend 'buffet service' ever is.

This has been on weekdays too.

 

[ExRes]

The seats need re-upholstering, the toilet areas still stink, the diesel fumes are still horrible in st pancras and all tunnels, the windows are filthy, etc etc.

I fully agree that, like most TOCs, EMT were/are very slow to spend time and money on train interiors and it always seems ridiculous that liveries are changed so often while windows are left filthy, but I think you're being a little unfair blaming EMT for fumes at St Pancras and in tunnels, are there any tunnels on diesel lines that don't have fumes ?

 

[Jonfun]

I find it amusing that replacing a buffet with an at seat service is an improvement and replacing an at seat service with a buffet is an improvement.

 

[bb21]

It could be if it is now a posh buffet I guess

 

[dk1]

I find it amusing that replacing a buffet with an at seat service is an improvement and replacing an at seat service with a buffet is an improvement.

Most companies use whatever spin suits their mood at the time & take great offence if you bring up previous statements :roll::roll:

 

[ag51ruk]

I must be travelling on different 153s then!

Clean, not smelly, adequate legroom (I'm 5 9) - agree re capacity at peaks.

Agree that they are clean, but absolutely disagree on legroom - some of the 153s have the worst legroom I have ever encountered on public transport (I'm only 5ft 10)

 

[cjmillsnun]

They need re-upholstering, a few onboard cleaners aren't going to change that. The award doesn't seem to make any reference to interior refurbishment?

They were re-upholstered within the last 5 years. SWT Desiros have older upholstery.

It would be worth trying a deep clean.

 

[LowLevel]

The 153s are a mixed bag. Some better than others. The ex Central ones tend to be the best. The others had new seats installed when EMT refurbished them and are missing things like arm rests and seat back tables where the new seat shells weren't fitted with them.

They're all an order of magnitude better than when they arrived though. The Wales and West ones looked about ready for the scrapyard, with the wrecked seats that had already had one career fitted to a 158.

 

[Starmill]

EMTs sprinter fleet puts some of the others to shame, at least insofar as functionality and cleanliness goes. Thode 158s win no awards for comfort, but at least you don't get the impression it's going to fall apart at the next bend like some Haymarket ones.

 

[Jonfun]

Most companies use whatever spin suits their mood at the time & take great offence if you bring up previous statements :roll::roll:

Quite...

 

[bunnahabhain]

They need re-upholstering, a few onboard cleaners aren't going to change that. The award doesn't seem to make any reference to interior refurbishment?

156s and 158s will certainly be receiving an interior refurbishment in the coming years. PIS, new wheelchair friend toilets, plug sockets at tables (158s) and USB sockets at all seats. An additional 158 will be brought into the fleet, with a second on a temporary basis to enable other units to be released for refurbishment.

Catering trolley extended East from Nottingham is all the good news I need to hear. Needs to go through to Ely at many passengers get on/off at Peterborough from East Anglia. As said earlier, there has always been provision from Nottingham onwards towards the NW.

The trolley will be as far as Peterborough, talking to staff who used to work the trolley service under Central Trains days they did the majority of their sales between Nottingham and Peterborough, most people out of Norwich tend to bring refreshments with them. This surprised me as well, I always find Grantham to Peterborough to be the quietest part of the route!

And the current portion-worked setup seems to work, though I can see a future need for 6-car (2 on to Norwich).

The ideal formation, for me, would always be 6 cars made up of two 3 car 158s, off peak services could comfortably be 4 or 5 cars at present but to cater for growth on both ends of the route a 3 car set is ideal for the through portion and 2-3 for the strengthening portion at Nottingham. Personally I'd quite like to see the strengthening portion running through to another destination to provide additional connectivity in the region to the North West (Lincoln or Leicester). However, there is no money and probably no demand for that.

So, stuck with the 153's on Crewe to Derby until they finally expire of old age then. Dirty, smelly, no leg room, insufficient capacity for peak times.

158s are booked on the 0607/1907 from Crewe, and 1742 and 2042 from Derby. 156s are also used on the route in the daytime for the Autumn/Winter/Spring timetable unless they're required for another service.

Inclined to agree. And on the non-London side all the stock is ex-BR. One of their big problems seems to be getting the capacity where and when it's needed. If there was a magic button to teleport a 158 from, e.g. Lincoln to Liverpool at 4.30 pm then I suspect that they could meet all their capacity needs. Unfortunately, there are times when they cart fresh air around as part of bigger picture planning, e.g. over the five and a half hours between Liverpool and Norwich a train can start as a crack of dawn special with hardly anyone on it and turn into a packed commuter train elsewhere.

0742 from Liverpool being the prime example, full and standing from Hunts Cross to Manchester with additional stops in at Hunts Cross and Birchwood. Ideally a relief should be provided by Northern on that section of the route to take our extra stops off us and ease our overcrowding, in an ideal world we wouldn't be used for local shacks to cater for commuters up that end of the route however there's no capacity so we need to do it else folk would be stranded.

 

[Mugby]

So where are the 'more seats' coming from? Is it just one extra 158?

 

[bunnahabhain]

More seats is specifically Newark Castle to Nottingham on Saturdays, but it also says they're in discussion with the DfT for other local route improvements. Probably the easiest win there is the two Jolly Joint Line services that were removed from the timetable under Central Trains days, the unit for them actually stables at Lincoln Central for the day (it used to be used for summer Skegness capacity increase). However it would probably need a bit of extra subsidy so that'll be the discussion then!

 

[paddy1]

Nothing about running longer trains on the St Pancras services. The first train of the day last Sunday but one from Nottingham to London was a four coach Meridian, doing all the usual all stations stops, and was full and standing long before it reached London. Absolutely disgraceful, and totally unnecessary, and shows EMT's total contempt for passengers. Was there really no other stock of suitable length available to run this service?

It's about time something was done to increase capacity weekdays and Saturdays on the St Pancras - Nottingham stopper, often only four coaches, and absolutely rammed. Also, far too many four and five car only Meridians on the Sunday service. The 2230 and 2300 on Sundays are often full and standing on leaving St Pancras, due to short formations. Again, not necessary.

Several more years, then, of more of the same for EMT passengers - high off peak fares and often short and overcrowded trains.

 

[Mugby]

Another tremendous improvement for many people would be Sunday morning services on the Crewe, Lincoln and Skegness lines.

But of course it's never going to happen!

 

[A0]

Nothing about running longer trains on the St Pancras services. The first train of the day last Sunday but one from Nottingham to London was a four coach Meridian, doing all the usual all stations stops, and was full and standing long before it reached London. Absolutely disgraceful, and totally unnecessary, and shows EMT's total contempt for passengers. Was there really no other stock of suitable length available to run this service?

It's about time something was done to increase capacity weekdays and Saturdays on the St Pancras - Nottingham stopper, often only four coaches, and absolutely rammed. Also, far too many four and five car only Meridians on the Sunday service. The 2230 and 2300 on Sundays are often full and standing on leaving St Pancras, due to short formations. Again, not necessary.

Several more years, then, of more of the same for EMT passengers - high off peak fares and often short and overcrowded trains.

Presumably to run longer formations would either mean doubling-up Meridians which means additional crewing or running HSTs - and these diagrams are presumably timed for Meridians which is why HSTs are used.

They've also got more Meridians than HSTs so presumably more latency in the event of one set failing when in traffic - so perhaps the risk of running an HST on Sundays when presumably it's out of traffic for maintenance and prep for the week ahead may risk Monday morning's services?

 

[LowLevel]

There's more intensive working of the HSTs on a Sunday than any other day of the week.

Unfortunately reliability is slipping though, not helped by shoving all the spare sets over to East Coast.

 

[bradders1983]

Another tremendous improvement for many people would be Sunday morning services on the Crewe, Lincoln and Skegness lines.

But of course it's never going to happen!

You mean from Sheffield? Not an EMT issue, its Northern who run that service.

If you mean the direct Donny-Lincoln service that EMT run, there are none of those on Sunday at all, not just the morning.

 

[LowLevel]

No, you're missing the extremely obvious Nottingham to Lincoln services which starts at around 1500 on a Sunday.

 

[Mugby]

You mean from Sheffield? Not an EMT issue, its Northern who run that service.

If you mean the direct Donny-Lincoln service that EMT run, there are none of those on Sunday at all, not just the morning.

No, I mean Nottingham - Lincoln, EMT.

 

[paddy1]

Presumably to run longer formations would either mean doubling-up Meridians which means additional crewing or running HSTs - and these diagrams are presumably timed for Meridians which is why HSTs are used.

They've also got more Meridians than HSTs so presumably more latency in the event of one set failing when in traffic - so perhaps the risk of running an HST on Sundays when presumably it's out of traffic for maintenance and prep for the week ahead may risk Monday morning's services?

Train companies will always come with 1001 reasons why they can't run longer trains. However, it's simply not acceptable to run such short trains when the volume of passengers travelling long distances (and extended Sunday journey times) will easily warrant a doubled up Meridian or a HST, especially when there is a 'skeleton' service only (i.e. one train an hour all main stops London-Nottm and London- Sheffield) operating on a Sunday on the MML.

 

[Baxenden Bank]

Another tremendous improvement for many people would be Sunday morning services on the Crewe, Lincoln and Skegness lines.

But of course it's never going to happen!

The argument for Crewe to Derby services is that a proper evening service, or Sunday morning service, is dependent upon either extra hours / shifts for signallers, or transfer of signalling to a regional centre (ROC).

Transfer to ROC was programmed but no-one seems willing to confirm that the dates are still valid in the current investment hiatus. More worryingly, no-one at EMT / Dft is willing to go on record and say "just as soon as ROC operation is achieved, evening and/or Sunday services will be improved".

I have in memory (but not checked) that transfer was due in 2016, so well within the franchise extension period.

Returning to the 153's, then I must travel in a parallel universe. They do have that dank / dusty smell (one of the guards, who is to be congratulated, carries a perfume bottle which he sprays at regular intervals whilst going about his other duties!), the carpets are filthy regardless of litter deposited upon them over the course of the day, and I am fed up of sitting legs akimbo or skewed to one side giving me back ache!

Yes, a 158 is provided for 2 round trips per day, out of 15 round trips per day, which I make to be 13.33% of the service. And yes, I am grateful for that pm peak service, which operates from Nottingham prior to departure from Derby, and generally aim to be on it because it is a much more pleasant experience. And yes, I do seem to remember we had much better stock prior to the current EMT franchise so I know with whom the blame lies.

Northern have some similar high density units which rotate onto the Leeds - Settle - Carlisle route off-peak. A scenic journey, highly promoted, spoilt by uncomfortable stock.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Train companies will always come with 1001 reasons why they can't run longer trains. However, it's simply not acceptable to run such short trains when the volume of passengers travelling long distances (and extended Sunday journey times) will easily warrant a doubled up Meridian or a HST, especially when there is a 'skeleton' service only (i.e. one train an hour all main stops London-Nottm and London- Sheffield) operating on a Sunday on the MML.

Why pay for two trains (or a more expensive HST) when, whilst they are receiving the revenue for two trains worth of passengers but only providing one!

 

[paddy1]

.....
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

The argument for Crewe to Derby services is that a proper evening service, or Sunday morning service, is dependent upon either extra hours / shifts for signallers, or transfer of signalling to a regional centre (ROC).

Transfer to ROC was programmed but no-one seems willing to confirm that the dates are still valid in the current investment hiatus. More worryingly, no-one at EMT / Dft is willing to go on record and say "just as soon as ROC operation is achieved, evening and/or Sunday services will be improved".

I have in memory (but not checked) that transfer was due in 2016, so well within the franchise extension period.

Returning to the 153's, then I must travel in a parallel universe. They do have that dank / dusty smell (one of the guards, who is to be congratulated, carries a perfume bottle which he sprays at regular intervals whilst going about his other duties!), the carpets are filthy regardless of litter deposited upon them over the course of the day, and I am fed up of sitting legs akimbo or skewed to one side giving me back ache!

Yes, a 158 is provided for 2 round trips per day, out of 15 round trips per day, which I make to be 13.33% of the service. And yes, I am grateful for that pm peak service, which operates from Nottingham prior to departure from Derby, and generally aim to be on it because it is a much more pleasant experience. And yes, I do seem to remember we had much better stock prior to the current EMT franchise so I know with whom the blame lies.

Northern have some similar high density units which rotate onto the Leeds - Settle - Carlisle route off-peak. A scenic journey, highly promoted, spoilt by uncomfortable stock.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Why pay for two trains (or a more expensive HST) when, whilst they are receiving the revenue for two trains worth of passengers but only providing one!

Exactly. It reduces their costs (and increases profits). EMT seem to have done this more and more over the years on their St Pancras services, running a short Meridian on services that at one time would have been a HST or a doubled up Meridian, and they've been getting away with it.

 

[Kettledrum]

I'm a little underwhelmed by this direct award. On one hand the "improvements" are very marginal and won't make much of a difference, but on the other hand my experience of travelling with them regularly has generally been positive, although the occasional short formed train can be frustrating.

Last weekend I did the return journey from Derby to Chesterfield. In one direction I travelled with XC trains. The train was short, very cramped, smelly and not a positive experience. In the other direction, it was an EMT train which was longer, cleaner and more spacious It really was a huge contrast.

 

[Robertj21a]

Surely, the big plus point is that it ensures that Stagecoach remain involved for that bit longer. No need for the 'second rate' players to replace them.

 

[bunnahabhain]

Surely, the big plus point is that it ensures that Stagecoach remain involved for that bit longer. No need for the 'second rate' players to replace them.

That's my viewpoint, I'm happy with Stagecoach and would prefer to see them retain the franchise come 2018/2019.

 

[Bungle965]

That's my viewpoint, I'm happy with Stagecoach and would prefer to see them retain the franchise come 2018/2019.

To early to say for me i will have to see who the bidders are first.
Sam

 

[CockneySparrow]

Interesting to see buffets returning - hadn't they abolished them?

Free 15 minutes' wifi? That seems to be (a) penny pinching, and (b) surprising given the general trend to free throughout.

Suppose its the meaning of "value" while at the same time increase fares to the permitted maximum

With regards to WiFi East Coast even under the DFT only offered 15 minutes free