What Should a Passenger do when Witnessing Fare Evasion?

[gimmea50anyday]

Actively ignoring the traincrew requesting tickets, then being picked up by a RPO without having purchased is fare evasion, simple as.

You had to board the train, NRCOC states you must be in posession of a ticket where issuing facilities exist.

You had opportunity to buy and chose not to.

When RPO challenges you and are unable to produce when requested to do so where opportunities existed to purchase, that is pretty much an open and shut case as far as magistrate is concerned.


(Scenario, sorry it sounds like im singling you out!)

If there is a barrier block at a station, often an RPO will approach me ask me if i have been through the train and offered ticket sales, if I have answered yes then anyone not in posession will get knocked. If however i havent been through, for whatever reason (f&s, machine failure etc) then they will actively sell.

I love doing tickets during peak, i will then do a FULL check even if i have already been through. The look on commuters faces when i endorse the ticket with todays date and they then cannot use it again tomorrow is priceless!!! ��

 

[47802]

Unless specifically approached to show my ticket I frequently don't bother, and If I saw anybody report me for that I more than likely tell them to *** off and mind their own business
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Actively ignoring the traincrew requesting tickets, then being picked up by a RPO without having purchased is fare evasion, simple as.

You had to board the train, NRCOC states you must be in posession of a ticket where issuing facilities exist.

You had opportunity to buy and chose not to.

When RPO challenges you and are unable to produce when requested to do so where opportunities existed to purchase, that is pretty much an open and shut case as far as magistrate is concerned.


(Scenario, sorry it sounds like im singling you out!)

If there is a barrier block at a station, often an RPO will approach me ask me if i have been through the train and offered ticket sales, if I have answered yes then anyone not in posession will get knocked. If however i havent been through, for whatever reason (f&s, machine failure etc) then they will actively sell.

I love doing tickets during peak, i will then do a FULL check even if i have already been through. The look on commuters faces when i endorse the ticket with todays date and they then cannot use it again tomorrow is priceless!!! ��

And before anybody says I'm favour of fare dodging no I'm not but it seem to be becoming an obsession on the Railway, I'm also only in favour of prosecuting persistent offenders.

As a result of some of the stuff I see on here regarding prosecutions I now use the train less and when I do travel I go out of my way to buy a ticket beforehand even if means missing my desired train and double check validity, on the basis of don't let the B******* get you.

 

[Skimpot flyer]

As a result of some of the stuff I see on here regarding prosecutions I now use the train less and when I do travel I go out of my way to buy a ticket beforehand even if means missing my desired train and double check validity, on the basis of don't let the B******* get you.

Your attitude is mind-boggling.
You 'go out of your way to buy a ticket'? Wow, thank you so much for your effort! It is your legal OBLIGATION to buy a ticket before travel !
Next time I pick up a sandwich at Tesco, I'll be really upset if the CEO doesn't come and personally thank me for going out of my way to pay at the till, despite the direct exit to the street being nearer !

 

[route:oxford]

It is your legal OBLIGATION to buy a ticket before travel !

Are you sure?

Throughout Scotrail, the automated machines only accept cards - so people who pay cash are invited to pay on board.

 

[jopsuk]

Are AGA still running their text system? Didn't look today. They had (have?) posters urging anyone that suspects a passenger may be far dodging to text "dodger" to 60006 with details of service, carriage and description.

 

[HH]

Are you sure?

Depends.

Railway Byelaws:
17. Compulsory Ticket Areas
(1) No person shall enter a compulsory ticket area on the railway unless he has
with him a valid ticket.
(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity
when asked to do so by an authorised person.

I'll leave you to put two and two together.

 

[Bletchleyite]

A CTA is a very specific thing, and most TOCs do not have them.

 

[yorkie]

A few brief points from me:

• Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) are a complete irrelevance to this discussion;
• The Tesco analogy is pointless. I am not a fan of such analogies (except for amusement purposes it can fun to use them, but not for a serious discussion!), and this analogy is arguably wrong anyway;
• It is the passengers' responsibility to purchase a ticket and if the Guard walks through the train asking for tickets, anyone who ignores the Guard (unless they're blind and don't hear, or deaf and don't see, etc) and is subsequently caught without a ticket is in hot water;
• gimmea50anyday's attitude does not stink; he's one of several TPE Guards I've met who do an absolutely superb job. He has been especially helpful to passengers making onward connections and is very pro-active and customer focussed;
• Telling passengers to "**** off" would be an offence and you can be removed from the train for that, valid ticket or no valid ticket.

 

[222007]

I had a passenger speak to me at the back of the train before boarding a few months back explained what was happening so i took a brief description of the fare evader and was able to deal with it. I say to people come have a quiet word if ive missed something because i am only human. I also find our trolley staff a great source of info

 

[47802]

A few brief points from me:

• Compulsory Ticket Areas (CTAs) are a complete irrelevance to this discussion;
• The Tesco analogy is pointless. I am not a fan of such analogies (except for amusement purposes it can fun to use them, but not for a serious discussion!), and this analogy is arguably wrong anyway;
• It is the passengers' responsibility to purchase a ticket and if the Guard walks through the train asking for tickets, anyone who ignores the Guard (unless they're blind and don't hear, or deaf and don't see, etc) and is subsequently caught without a ticket is in hot water;
• gimmea50anyday's attitude does not stink; he's one of several TPE Guards I've met who do an absolutely superb job. He has been especially helpful to passengers making onward connections and is very pro-active and customer focussed;
• Telling passengers to "**** off" would be an offence and you can be removed from the train for that, valid ticket or no valid ticket.

Well regardless whether its an offence or not they would more than likely get a few choice words from me.

Coming back to the original point made in the post, would I inform on them no I wouldn't, for one thing you don't know for certain that person hasn't got a ticket and secondly I have probably got better things to do than try to be some amateur Ticket Inspector.

 

[yorkie]

If you have a concern inform the Guard/ticket inspector and let them handle it. That's not being an "amateur ticket inspector".

 

[47802]

If you have a concern inform the Guard/ticket inspector and let them handle it. That's not being an "amateur ticket inspector".

Well that's your opinion its not mine, at the end of the day I'm not getting involved whether someone has a ticket or not.

 

[yorkie]

No-one isaskibg you to "get involved" but you won't be swearing at anyone, agreed?

 

[MP33]

When one of Greater Anglia's predecessors published a magazine for gold card holders. They explained that the amount of fare evasion was around 1% of income. The costs of recruiting more inspectors would not be justified as the increased revenue would not meet costs.

If someone is only making a 10 minute or so journey. What can really be done about them, unless they are caught red handed.

 

[bussnapperwm]

Keep my nose out of it.

The See No Evil, Hear No Evil principle?

 

[tony6499]

Could have been a plain clothes RPI on a job ? Could have been anything, somethings as always are not as they seem to be

 

[Minilad]

Unless specifically approached to show my ticket I frequently don't bother, and If I saw anybody report me for that I more than likely tell them to *** off and mind their own business
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---




And before anybody says I'm favour of fare dodging no I'm not but it seem to be becoming an obsession on the Railway, I'm also only in favour of prosecuting persistent offenders.

As a result of some of the stuff I see on here regarding prosecutions I now use the train less and when I do travel I go out of my way to buy a ticket beforehand even if means missing my desired train and double check validity, on the basis of don't let the B******* get you.

Maybe if there were more prosecutions for first time offenders they wouldn't get to become persistent ones

 

[gimmea50anyday]

[*] gimmea50anyday's attitude does not stink; he's one of several TPE Guards I've met who do an absolutely superb job. He has been especially helpful to passengers making onward connections and is very pro-active and customer focussed;

Appreciate the compliment. Many thanks!

[*] Telling passengers to "**** off" would be an offence and you can be removed from the train for that, valid ticket or no valid ticket.

If thats the avenue you choose to exploit, you will find yourself off at the next stop and handed over to the police. End of!

6. Unacceptable behaviour

(1)No person shall use any threatening, abusive, obscene or offensive language on the railway.

18. Ticketless travel in non-compulsory ticket areas

(1) In any area not designated as a compulsory ticket area, no person shall enter any train for the purpose of travelling on the railway unless he has with him a valid ticket entitling him to travel.
(2) A person shall hand over his ticket for inspection and verification of validity when asked to do so by an authorised person.

 

[6Gman]

Slightly off-topic, but ...

The Crewe - Chester shuttle was a 4 car y/day (Chester Races).

On departing the Guard walked through to start his ticket check from the front. Good move that man!

 

[fowler9]

I'd say just tell the guard if you feel the need to. Why get involved though? Once you leave the station do you take photos of people illegally parked or jumping red lights etc. It would take you all day just to get home.

 

[Antman]

Appreciate the compliment. Many thanks!



If thats the avenue you choose to exploit, you will find yourself off at the next stop and handed over to the police. End of!

That's if the police turn up, I don't think somebody being sworn at would be a top priority

 

[47802]

No-one isaskibg you to "get involved" but you won't be swearing at anyone, agreed?

no not agreed, I try not to involve myself in other peoples business and I don't take kindly to it if other people don't do like wise whatever the law might say, especially as I'm not a fare as such and therefore an assumption otherwise would be wrong.

 

[bb21]

no not agreed, I try not to involve myself in other peoples business and I don't take kindly to it if other people don't do like wise whatever the law might say, especially as I'm not a fare as such and therefore an assumption otherwise would be wrong.

That is your choice.

We do not condone such behaviour as swearing at a fellow passenger.

 

[GodAtum]

I think purposesely fare-dodgeing is a gateway crime, leading to drink driving, stealing office stationary etc. If I saw an employee get a fine they would not last long under my employement.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

I had a bloke on my train couple of years ago, left piccadilly, went thru train, front carriage tall afro-british male playing with his phone, asked for his ticket, looked at me, laughed, carried on playing with his phone.

Asked him again, looked at me, laughed, said he lost it, carried on playing with his phone.

Asked him again, looked at me, claimed he didnt need a ticket, carried on playing with his phone.

Gentleman in a suit stood next to me in the aisle, pulled out his police badge, showed the guy his badge, said you need to pay him, looks at me, looks at the copper, laughs and carries on playing with his phone.

Train announces stalybridge, guy gets up, casually walks to the train doors still playing with his phone. Asked again to produce his ticket, still carries on playing with phone.

"I have seen enough you are under arrest"

Release doors, this man towers over the copper, but he has him arm locked and marches him into the office at Stalybridge. I carry on my merry way.

Next night station staff holler me at stalybridge. "that copper loved you last night, took him an hour to get ID but he wasnt letting it go. Turned out he was wanted on warrant from metropolitan police for affray, assault and credit card fraud amongst other things!"

Bazinga! Thats why you pay your fares!

 

[Antman]

I think purposesely fare-dodgeing is a gateway crime, leading to drink driving, stealing office stationary etc. If I saw an employee get a fine they would not last long under my employement.

How exactly does fare dodging lead to drink driving?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

As my post above, he got away with fare dosging before, believed he was untouchable with a rap sheet as long as his arm but it was fare dodging that caught him out!

 

[hulabaloo]

How exactly does fare dodging lead to drink driving?

Banned from the railways and forced to drive home from the pub?

 

[Antman]

As my post above, he got away with fare dosging before, believed he was untouchable with a rap sheet as long as his arm but it was fare dodging that caught him out!

About as logical as saying somebody who uses a car park without paying or fails to pay their council tax will go on to become a drug dealer

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Banned from the railways and forced to drive home from the pub?

Ahhh yes, I hadn't thought of that

 

[34D]

Quite simply, No. It is the passenger's responsibility to either show a ticket or request to buy one. If I walk through the train and you don't show / ask to buy and are then caught by revenue protection for not having a valid ticket, the fact that I walked past you is not a valid excuse. Similarly, you have a ticket for a request stop and I walk past - unless you stop me and tell me, there's no guarantee we'll stop.

The onus is on the passenger, always has been and I don't see it being changed (remember, we could have several hundred people on our train and seeing one new face in all that is bloody difficult). If you want to sit quietly and not make yourself known, I don't really care. If you subsequently come up to me with a problem and I've not marked your ticket, I'll be blunt in informing you that it's your fault, not mine

For me, this is only an 'opportunity' if the guy is saying "ticket please" and not just walking.