SEVERN TUNNEL JUNCTION - Connection to M4.

[Envoy]

The Welsh Government are now in the final stages of their consultation regarding the building of a new M4 south of Newport running from the Severn Bridge tolls to Castleton. (This is to avoided the hilly & twisting section to the north of Newport where traffic jams frequently occur due to the Newport tunnels being unable to cope with the volume of traffic).

The plan shows a new configuration for the split point between the M4 & M48. It is at this point that traffic for Severn Tunnel Junction will leave the motorway & then drive through Rogiet to reach the station. Looking at Google Earth, you can see that should STJ become even more popular, this is hardly a desirable route - both for the residents and the cars that have to make their way through an urban area with many humps.

Looking at Google Earth, you can see that the car park at STJ is already full. Many people appear to have parked on the south side of the railway - where presumably they can also avoid paying the parking charge set by ATW. (Some may also be parking in residential streets in Rogiet)

You will see that a bridge crosses the M4 by the toll plaza. I would suggest that it would be a brilliant idea to have a slip road coming off the M4 eastbound just before the tolls and going straight to a new south side car park for STJ. The bridge by the tolls could be utilised to bring traffic from STJ back over the M4 to then head west via a slip just west of the tolls. If this were done (at little cost), then surely STJ would become even more popular and the people of Rogiet would not have commuters going through residential streets.

It might also be a good idea to have some London trains stop at STJ as it is the nearest convenient railhead for Monmouth & the Lower Wye Valley as well as Usk.

On 16 & 17 September, 2015, the Welsh Government will have an exhibition of the M4 proposals in Ebenezer Chaper, Magor from 11am to 7.30pm. On Friday 18 September, they will be in the St.David's Centre, Cardiff - noon to 6pm. (Other places including Newport & Carmarthen will also have the exhibition - see link for info.)

You might like to pass comment on the route of the new M4 as well as the issue of rail connection at STJ. Click the link for more info. (The video fly through is very impressive).
http://gov.wales/topics/transport/roads/schemes/m4-road/m4/?lang=en


QUOTE: "Our proposal for a new section of motorway, and complementary measures, is considered to be the sustainable, long-term solution to current social, environmental and economic problems associated with this route. It forms an essential part of our vision for an efficient integrated transport system in South Wales.

Between 7 September and 26 September we will be holding public information exhibitions so that you can find out more about our proposals. Download the exhibition leaflet to find out the dates of your nearest exhibition. Copies of the exhibition material will be available on this website during the exhibition for those unable to attend".

 

[Gareth Marston]

The chances of this going ahead are dependent on their being a Labour administration in the Bay next May, both Plaid and the Lub Dems are opposed to it mainly on the grounds that it leaves nothing for the rest of Wales. If 2015's general election result is repeated Labour will lose seats and need a coalition partner. The current Minister pushing the M4 road is standing down anyway. Plaid and the Lib Dems are the likely partners, the Torys will never and there seems to be a certainty of UKIP AM's.

 

[Envoy]

The chances of this going ahead are dependent on their being a Labour administration in the Bay next May, both Plaid and the Lub Dems are opposed to it mainly on the grounds that it leaves nothing for the rest of Wales. If 2015's general election result is repeated Labour will lose seats and need a coalition partner. The current Minister pushing the M4 road is standing down anyway. Plaid and the Lib Dems are the likely partners, the Torys will never and there seems to be a certainty of UKIP AM's.

The whole of southern Wales - and that means right down to Carmarthenshire & Pembrokeshire - are absolutely fed up with the Newport tunnel problem. Then you have great surges of traffic for events in Cardiff causing jams on the M4. Get an accident on this section of the M4 and gridlock occurs throughout a wide area. I can't see the 'cheapskate scheme' to improve roads in the south of Newport being a solution. Anybody leaving Wales for England via the Severn crossing is never sure if they will have a swift journey back. (7 mile jams are frequent at peak times). This situation is also likely to deter visitors from England.

I would think that Labour & the Conservatives could well pick up votes across southern Wales by stating clearly that they would go ahead with this scheme. Plaid Cymru came last in the general election - behind UKIP and being against this scheme will not gain them any votes in the south when the Welsh Government election comes around next spring! In fact, PC are the odd ones out as they are the only party who wish to break away from the rest of the UK whilst being heavily in favour of being a member of the EU.

 

[TheNewNo2]

I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve with this. No one on the motorway is going to want to get on a train at STJ - they're pretty rare, and go the same directions the motorway does.

 

[Gareth Marston]

The whole of southern Wales - and that means right down to Carmarthenshire & Pembrokeshire - are absolutely fed up with the Newport tunnel problem. Then you have great surges of traffic for events in Cardiff causing jams on the M4. Get an accident on this section of the M4 and gridlock occurs throughout a wide area. I can't see the 'cheapskate scheme' to improve roads in the south of Newport being a solution. Anybody leaving Wales for England via the Severn crossing is never sure if they will have a swift journey back. (7 mile jams are frequent at peak times). This situation is also likely to deter visitors from England.

I would think that Labour & the Conservatives could well pick up votes across southern Wales by stating clearly that they would go ahead with this scheme. Plaid Cymru came last in the general election - behind UKIP and being against this scheme will not gain them any votes in the south when the Welsh Government election comes around next spring! In fact, PC are the odd ones out as they are the only party who wish to break away from the rest of the UK whilst being heavily in favour of being a member of the EU.

Oh no we didn't build "enough" motorway maybe we need a duplicate M4 and on the north coast a duplicate A55 in case we might be inconvenienced.
No nation on earth has built there way our of road congestion with more road so why should this work in a South Wales?

 

[Gwenllian2001]

No nation on earth has built there way our of road congestion with more road so why should this work in a South Wales?

The answer to your question is simple. IT WON'T.

 

[Michael.Y]

there seems to be a certainty of UKIP AM's.

Does there? Is that wishful thinking or based on evidence? At best they may get one or two on the D'Hondt list, and that's on current levels of support, which may haemmorhage quite quickly.

 

[Llanigraham]

UKIP shot themselves in the foot in North Wales with their "denial" of the Welsh language, and elsewhere there have been plenty of reports of them losing members, much caused by their bad publicity lately.

 

[Dai Corner]

I don't think any account was taken of the electrification of the SWML or the future plans for a 'South Wales Metro' when predicting future road traffic levels. I attended one of the exhibitions earlier this week but there was nobody there who I could discuss this with. I will try again at a future exhibition.

 

[Envoy]

I don't understand what problem you're trying to solve with this. No one on the motorway is going to want to get on a train at STJ - they're pretty rare, and go the same directions the motorway does.

Suppose you lived in Monmouth or Usk - two towns without a railway. You need to travel to the centre of Bristol and have a car - so could drive all the way. However, driving into the centre of Bristol is slow going due to congestion and parking is expensive. By having a quick and easy access road from the M4 into a STJ station (with hopefully free parking), might induce you to use the car for the part of the trip where public transport is poor/slow and then switch to the train where congestion / parking is a problem.

Some might say that people in Usk could go to Newport station. However, it is not likely to be a swift journey to the centre of Newport and parking is limited. For journeys to Cardiff from Usk, Pontypool Road is the nearest railhead. However, most trains do not stop here and no easy access road has been built from the A4042 to a station car park. (The car park is on the east side of the line reached via a complicated route & not signposted from the A4042).

The present/proposed access via Rogiet (with nasty humps) to a car park that is too small and charges parking fees, does nothing to encourage a switch from car to train. Neither is this station marked by any sign on the M4. (Many people who only use the motorway will be completely unaware of its existence).

I would hardly call the fact that 2 trains an hour run to Bristol and at least one an hour to Gloucester & Cheltenham "rare". All of these trains run west to Newport & Cardiff with some continuing westward.

 

[Greenback]

I don't think that the scheme is going to go ahead. There is no support for it where I live, that's for sure. In eight years I've never heard anyone complain about the Newport section of the M4, there are greater problems for locals to concern themselves with. IN fact, the usual position is to be against anything proposed by the WG as a matter of principle.

 

[Envoy]

I don't think that the scheme is going to go ahead. There is no support for it where I live, that's for sure. In eight years I've never heard anyone complain about the Newport section of the M4, there are greater problems for locals to concern themselves with. IN fact, the usual position is to be against anything proposed by the WG as a matter of principle.

Totally ridiculous - that people would just oppose whatever the WG proposed just for the sake of it.

The Newport section of the M4 is hilly, twisty & therefore more dangerous than a new motorway would be running across flatland south of Newport. The new junctions south of Llanwern & at Newport Docks would also help promote development on brownfield sites. This is far better than Cardiff Council's proposal to build a Business Park in the countryside at Junction 33. (Cardiff Council also have brownfield sites suitable for industry at Tremorfa but obviously, developers would rather build on green field sites).

 

[Michael.Y]

There's two infinitely preferable solutions to this:

1) To improve the flow of traffic through the Newport corridor, restrict junction access at peak times at Junctions 24, 25, 26 and 27. Build Park & Ride facilities for Newport City Centre at Llanwern and Tredegar / Cleppa Park.

2) Widen the Brynglas Tunnels.


On the railside, maybe make Severn Tunnel Junction a genuinely attractive alternative to the car by stopping more services like the first Paddington-Swansea. Have a dedicated STJ-CDF service for peak-time commuters. At the moment if you are coming in from Caldicot, Rogiet and Magor you are probably coming in on a 2-car 150 or a Pacer already full from Bristol or Gloucester.

 

[Llanigraham]

I don't think that the scheme is going to go ahead. There is no support for it where I live, that's for sure. In eight years I've never heard anyone complain about the Newport section of the M4, there are greater problems for locals to concern themselves with. IN fact, the usual position is to be against anything proposed by the WG as a matter of principle.

Sorry, but I've got friends who live around Llanelli who DO complain about the problems at Newport, about getting delayed at the tunnels and the general poor condition of the M4 there.
I can even tell you of people up here who complain about it!!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

There's two infinitely preferable solutions to this:

1) To improve the flow of traffic through the Newport corridor, restrict junction access at peak times at Junctions 24, 25, 26 and 27. Build Park & Ride facilities for Newport City Centre at Llanwern and Tredegar / Cleppa Park.

2) Widen the Brynglas Tunnels.

Junct 24 is a major junction from the A449 and M50, and you propose restricting access!!
TBH the problems isn't there but between 27 and 25, and that was partially releived when they opened 25a

They had enough problems geologically building the Brynglas Tunnels; to widen them would be an even bigger problem PLUS you would have to close the M4 to do it, therefore causing bigger problems.

 

[Envoy]

There's two infinitely preferable solutions to this:

1) To improve the flow of traffic through the Newport corridor, restrict junction access at peak times at Junctions 24, 25, 26 and 27. Build Park & Ride facilities for Newport City Centre at Llanwern and Tredegar / Cleppa Park.

2) Widen the Brynglas Tunnels.


On the railside, maybe make Severn Tunnel Junction a genuinely attractive alternative to the car by stopping more services like the first Paddington-Swansea. Have a dedicated STJ-CDF service for peak-time commuters. At the moment if you are coming in from Caldicot, Rogiet and Magor you are probably coming in on a 2-car 150 or a Pacer already full from Bristol or Gloucester.

The obvious place to build a P & R for Newport centre would be near the proposed Newport Docks interchange. It remains to be seen how many people will actually want to go to Newport once the new shopping development opens in November.

When the M4 was built around Newport in the mid 60's, the route was presumably chosen to provide a link between the various 'A' roads that connect to the eastern valleys. J24 is the interchange that links the A449 to the M4. The A449 > A40 > M50 route is the fastest route between south Wales & the Midlands & north. (A pity it was not all called the M50 & built to motorway standards. The traffic light at Monmouth is now causing delays). So, this Newport section of motorway is carrying short hop traffic, traffic heading to/from the Midlands in addition to that heading to/from the Severn bridges / Chepstow.

It is a pity that seeing the way things were going that they did not leave the Newport section of the M4 as the original 2 lanes each way motorway. Vast amounts of money have been put into widening this section of M4 and putting in the Cwmbran link (with the loss of direct access to Caerleon). It has all been a waste of time and money as the tunnels remain the root cause of most problems on this route. It is impossible to widen them without closing the M4 and sending the traffic through Newport!

Closing junctions would also be impossible.

When the line between Paddington & Oxford is electrified, the plan is for the class 165/166 turbostars to be sent west to provide services as 5 car trains on the Cardiff > Bristol > Bath > Salisbury > Southampton > Portsmouth route and on the Cardiff > Bristol > Taunton route. Thus, the overcrowding issue should be addressed and poor quality 150's removed. Hopefully this will encourage a shift from road to rail on these routes.

ATW seem to use anything from Pacers to 158's on their services to Cheltenham. Again, these suffer from overcrowding as does the Class 170 operated Cross Country service on the Cardiff > Gloucester > Birmingham . Nottingham route; (2 or 3 coach trains usually). One can only hope that something is done to strengthen these services and thus make them more attractive.

http://www.friarswalknewport.co.uk

 

[Greenback]

Totally ridiculous - that people would just oppose whatever the WG proposed just for the sake of it.

That's Llanelli for you. There are people who want the town and surrounding area to be an independent council. They don't want to be part of Carmarthenshire and they certainly don't want to be part of Swansea. A few even say that Llanelli should be an independent state like San Marino, with EU and UN representation. I've always thought they were joking, but you never know!

Sorry, but I've got friends who live around Llanelli who DO complain about the problems at Newport, about getting delayed at the tunnels and the general poor condition of the M4 there.
I can even tell you of people up here who complain about it!!

I'm sure there are people who complain about it after using it. I don't know any, though, probably because very few of my friends and acquaintances use the M4 east of Bridgend with any regularity. Most only venture as afar as Bristol if they are off on holiday from the airport there.

I'm just trying to point out that it's a slight exaggeration to say that the whole of south Wales, including Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire is fed up of the M4 at Newport issue. While I'm sure that a lot of people are sick of it, and want something to be done, not everyone has a car and not everyone with a car uses the M4. Even those who do don't always have a problem. We've driven that way twice in a year and never had problems at Newport.

The question for me is whether any scheme will actually work or whether it will just move the problem of congestion elsewhere.

 

[jimm]

That's Llanelli for you. There are people who want the town and surrounding area to be an independent council. They don't want to be part of Carmarthenshire and they certainly don't want to be part of Swansea. A few even say that Llanelli should be an independent state like San Marino, with EU and UN representation. I've always thought they were joking, but you never know!



I'm sure there are people who complain about it after using it. I don't know any, though, probably because very few of my friends and acquaintances use the M4 east of Bridgend with any regularity. Most only venture as afar as Bristol if they are off on holiday from the airport there.

I'm just trying to point out that it's a slight exaggeration to say that the whole of south Wales, including Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire is fed up of the M4 at Newport issue. While I'm sure that a lot of people are sick of it, and want something to be done, not everyone has a car and not everyone with a car uses the M4. Even those who do don't always have a problem. We've driven that way twice in a year and never had problems at Newport.

The question for me is whether any scheme will actually work or whether it will just move the problem of congestion elsewhere.

I'm sure if you only try to go that way a couple of times a year at times of day when the traffic is flowing, then it may not seem that much of an issue, but if you get stuck in it on a regular basis you might feel differently.

While I live in England, I visit friends in Cardiff quite a lot. Most of the time, I use the train, but sometimes I drive and I dread the approach to Newport from the east, as you never know what you will face. It can be a piece of cake or it can be downright awful. Something needs to be done, however unpalatable it may seem, especially if it leaves the existing M4 for use by what is essentially local traffic that is fighting with long-distance traffic for space on an inadequate piece of road.

 

[Envoy]

I'm just trying to point out that it's a slight exaggeration to say that the whole of south Wales, including Pembrokeshire and Carmarthenshire is fed up of the M4 at Newport issue. While I'm sure that a lot of people are sick of it, and want something to be done, not everyone has a car and not everyone with a car uses the M4. Even those who do don't always have a problem. We've driven that way twice in a year and never had problems at Newport.

The question for me is whether any scheme will actually work or whether it will just move the problem of congestion elsewhere.

If people in England are deciding whether to take a holiday in Devon/Cornwall or Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire - if they are going to be stuck in jams at Newport when they could have a swifter journey down to the south-west, they will choose the south-west. (The A303 direct route to Exeter from London is going to be improved so this should relieve pressure on the M5). The same is true for industrialists seeking to invest in regions that are further away from the 'core' of the UK. So, the present situation on the M4 at Newport is bound to have an impact on the economy of SW Wales as well as SE Wales.

I have just come across a report from Railfuture about plans for a new station at Magor/Undy - with no parking so as to discourage local car use. This station, along with one at Llanwern, would be served by a frequent stop service.

It is suggested in this report that Llanwern would be useful for serving as a railhead places up the A449 ( Usk / Raglan / Monmouth).
I think that if Llanwern is going to be served by all stop services rather than say the Cardiff > Portsmouth or the London trains, then it would not be in the best interests of Usk, Raglan or Monmouth & environs & that they would be better off using my proposed fast access route to a new car-park at STJ linked to the M4 by the tolls.

http://www.railfuture.org.uk/Magor

 

[Greenback]

I'm sure if you only try to go that way a couple of times a year at times of day when the traffic is flowing, then it may not seem that much of an issue, but if you get stuck in it on a regular basis you might feel differently.

While I live in England, I visit friends in Cardiff quite a lot. Most of the time, I use the train, but sometimes I drive and I dread the approach to Newport from the east, as you never know what you will face. It can be a piece of cake or it can be downright awful. Something needs to be done, however unpalatable it may seem, especially if it leaves the existing M4 for use by what is essentially local traffic that is fighting with long-distance traffic for space on an inadequate piece of road.

I agree completely that those who encounter problems or who drive regularly through the offending section of the M4 will want something done about it. I just don't think that it's everyone in south Wales.

For the avoidance of doubt, i'm not saying that there isn't a problem at all, but just as those of us who aren't affected are likely to downplay the issue, it's also likely that those who are affected will be just as likely to exaggerate how big the problem is and the numbers of people who want it fixed.

If people in England are deciding whether to take a holiday in Devon/Cornwall or Carmarthenshire/Pembrokeshire - if they are going to be stuck in jams at Newport when they could have a swifter journey down to the south-west, they will choose the south-west. (The A303 direct route to Exeter from London is going to be improved so this should relieve pressure on the M5). The same is true for industrialists seeking to invest in regions that are further away from the 'core' of the UK. So, the present situation on the M4 at Newport is bound to have an impact on the economy of SW Wales as well as SE Wales.

I think that any effect is minor. It's just my opinion, but I don't see hordes of tourists avoiding south west Wales simply because a section of the motorway wasn't built with enough capacity, and is sometimes affected by jams.

I think that the route to the south west is similarly affected by notorious delay locations. The last time I drove down there, there was a well known single carriageway section of an otherwise dual carriageway route which always caused delays.

People will go the south west if that's where they want to go, and the will got o Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire if that's where they want to go. Many might even choose to ignore the motorway throughout in order to enjoy a more scenic and leisurely drive.

Again, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm not saying that something that shouldn't be done. I just don't share the feeling that this is a major priority with dire implications for Wales if it's not addressed.

 

[Envoy]

Anybody who wants to see where & when the jams occur can do it by using Google Earth. Open Google Earth & call up the side menu, then tick 'Traffic'.
This will show you the speed of traffic on our (& abroad) major routes as taken by the sensors in the road surface. You will get 4 colours of dots ranging from black (crawling to green = flying along). Do this at peak times to see the most congested areas. (Fridays around 5pm is pretty bad).

 

[Michael.Y]

Junct 24 is a major junction from the A449 and M50, and you propose restricting access!!
TBH the problems isn't there but between 27 and 25, and that was partially releived when they opened 25a

Newport needs a system like the D-road at Stoke. By restricting traffic entering and exiting Newport to two junctions at the east and west of the city, you would improve through traffic flow through the Newport section of the M4. (Perhaps I should have said restricting "egress" - after all as a former resident of High Cross I would be most peturbed if I could not get onto the M4 unless I drove down to Bassaleg.) By creating a P&R system as well you would remove cars from the SDR, B-roads, Clarence Place, Malpas Road, Tredegar Park etc.

They had enough problems geologically building the Brynglas Tunnels; to widen them would be an even bigger problem PLUS you would have to close the M4 to do it, therefore causing bigger problems.

Construction, technology etc have moved on a lot since the 1960s. I'm sure it CAN be done, but if there is the will or the funding for it I sincerely doubt.

 

[Llanigraham]

Again, I'm not saying there isn't a problem, and I'm not saying that something that shouldn't be done. I just don't share the feeling that this is a major priority with dire implications for Wales if it's not addressed.

Sorry Greenback, but you are being very insular over this.

There have been plenty of reports from several of the Chamber of Trades in South Wales, from the Welsh CBI, and from the road transport lobby that the tunnels are causing a problem and are regularly causing severe delays along the M4 corridor.

Before we moved to Powys we used the section from the A449 to Cardiff regularly, visiting my aged parents in Cardiff, and I estimate we were delayed atleast once a month, in one direction or the other. Even now I occasionally use it and still get caught up in congestion.

It is also one of the reasons a special access to The Celtic Manor was built off the A449 about a mile from the motorway junction.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Construction, technology etc have moved on a lot since the 1960s. I'm sure it CAN be done, but if there is the will or the funding for it I sincerely doubt.

Do you live in the area?

They had huge problems when they built the original tunnels that ended up with them having to demolish several of the houses above as the ground is geologically unstable. Whilst construction technology might have moved on it hasn't altered the poor geology present in the hill
Plus to enlarge the tunnels would require atleast one of them being closed as they worked, thereby causing DELAYS, they very thing they are trying to cure.

 

[Gareth Marston]

My partner has worked a for company whose head office is on the Somerset levels for nearly 20 years, this has entailed her having to drive their from mid wales. She usually drives over the Severn Bridge, sometimes via Newport and also via the dual carriageway by Raglan. She's never encountered any problems on the M4 admittedly she doesn't hit rush if she can avoid.
I have worked with a team who are based in Swansea and Bedwas for the last 6 years I've never heard any comment from them about traffic congestion around Newport.

No doubt it's bad at rush hour but that's the same everywhere. All too often those demanding action believe that their problem is unique and there being disadvantaged in comparison with other areas and there's a magic construction based solution. No doubt there's plenty of folk in Swansea, Llanelli and the Valleys who see their local problem as a higher priority.

 

[PHILIPE]

When One direction played the Millenium (soon to be Principality) Stadium and Manic Street Preachers at Cardiff Castle on the same night earlier this year, traffic was stop go in a queue for about 45 miles, almost to the Chippenham Junction. After the Brynglas Tunnels and back to 3 lanes, traffic was moving freely.
Similarly when Bath Rugby played a big evening match in Cardiff last year, traffic was queued back to Tolmarton (Bath Junction) .
This only proves the point that something must be put in place, quickly.
Mind you the Bridge Tolls can slow down traffic quite considerably at times.

 

[Gareth Marston]

Sorry Greenback, but you are being very insular over this.

There have been plenty of reports from several of the Chamber of Trades in South Wales, from the Welsh CBI, and from the road transport lobby that the tunnels are causing a problem and are regularly causing severe delays along the M4 corridor.



The business community always want public expenditure to benefit there wishes but put in a lot of effort to avoid paying their share.

 

[jimm]

Newport needs a system like the D-road at Stoke. By restricting traffic entering and exiting Newport to two junctions at the east and west of the city, you would improve through traffic flow through the Newport section of the M4. (Perhaps I should have said restricting "egress" - after all as a former resident of High Cross I would be most peturbed if I could not get onto the M4 unless I drove down to Bassaleg.) By creating a P&R system as well you would remove cars from the SDR, B-roads, Clarence Place, Malpas Road, Tredegar Park etc.

Construction, technology etc have moved on a lot since the 1960s. I'm sure it CAN be done, but if there is the will or the funding for it I sincerely doubt.

Sorry, but trying to compare Newport and Stoke is apples and pears time. A Newport equivalent of the M6 past Stoke would be just what is being proposed - the new motorway south of the city. As I'm sure you know, they've already tried to draw off some of the local traffic from the M4 with the Southern Distributor Road - which is no A500 - and tinkering with the entry and exit arrangements at the motorway junctions, all to no avail. And closing junction 26 would not go down well in Cwmbran and points north.

The technology may have moved on, the complex geology hasn't and as noted above, doing any work at the tunnels effectively means shutting down the M4 in one or both directions - that'd be fun. Boring the tunnels and fitting them out in the 1960s took four-and-a-half years. I doubt reboring tunnels in an area with difficult geology could be accomplished that much faster these days, however clever modern methods may be.

No doubt it's bad at rush hour but that's the same everywhere. All too often those demanding action believe that their problem is unique and there being disadvantaged in comparison with other areas and there's a magic construction based solution. No doubt there's plenty of folk in Swansea, Llanelli and the Valleys who see their local problem as a higher priority.

I can assure you it is bad at other times, like Saturday mornings or long after rush hour on Friday evenings, to take but two examples of occasions I have had the displeasure to get stuck. I predict it will be pretty rubbish next weekend as well, due to the rugby in Cardiff both days.

 

[HowardGWR]

Regarding the posts about pop shows and sports events, the notion one should build a new motorway for these is economic madness. Promoters should institute environmentally sustainable transport plans and make it clear to attenders that public transport is the only way to access them. It can be done. as other venues demonstrate. Building roads (or indeed, sometimes, expanding railways) to cater for rush hour commuters is also nuts. We really have to start using some forward thinking on these issues and the Newport case is no exception.

 

[Starmill]

I have a lot of sympathy with people complaining about this section of M4. You can see it's substandard and not really designed for the number of vehicles that are trying to use it. It's slow, frustrating and less safe.

The real solution is for fewer private cars to use this road. People complaining should have a good think about where they're travelling from and to and how much it's costing them to drive. The answer is easy; what combination of buses and trains can allow them to make these journeys with reduced need to drive, and how much can they afford to pay for that. Not everyone using the road will have a practical alternative using these modes. But I'm willing to bet a significant enough proportion could be removed from it by major public transport improvements that it would remove most of the problems on this stretch.

Not that I think it likely that they will get much improved public transport.

 

[Llanigraham]

The business community always want public expenditure to benefit there wishes but put in a lot of effort to avoid paying their share.

Sorry Gareth, but if it wasn't for businesses then there wouldn't be any work. And funnily enough they do pay quite a lot for doing that, from NI on their employees wages to business rates.

 

[najaB]

The technology may have moved on, the complex geology hasn't and as noted above, doing any work at the tunnels effectively means shutting down the M4 in one or both directions - that'd be fun. Boring the tunnels and fitting them out in the 1960s took four-and-a-half years. I doubt reboring tunnels in an area with difficult geology could be accomplished that much faster these days, however clever modern methods may be.

It's worth noting though that the difficult geology came as a surprise when the tunnels were originally bored. Now that we have a much better idea of what the builders would be facing - and with that new technology you mentioned - I am fairly confident that they could bore another tunnel, or rebore the existing ones in months rather than years.