What Should a Passenger do when Witnessing Fare Evasion?

[Steveoh]

I've just completed a short rail journey and saw somebody board the train at a station which is without a ticket office. The guard came through the train and asked to see tickets and the aforementioned passenger didn't show a ticket. After that I had a quiet word with the guard but probably too late as he was on his way to open the doors at the terminus.

So my question is really what should the public do? Is it in our remit to embarrass fare evaders with questions like "I thought I saw you board at station X" as the guard passes asking for tickets. Is a quiet word with the guard the way? Is it a word with the barrier staff?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd suggest that if you have a concern of any kind you could report it to "a member of staff or a Police officer" as the PIS forever tells us, but that getting involved directly is not really recommended.

 

[LowLevel]

Have a quiet word with the inspector if the opportunity permits but certainly don't take it up with the individual yourself.

 

[gordonthemoron]

how do you know they don't have a ticket? They may have a return portion or a season

 

[Retorus]

Keep my nose out of it.

 

[Steveoh]

I did think that there was always the possibly that they did actually have a ticket. But they why not show it? There was no way this individual didn't hear or see the guard asking for tickets.

I suspected the advice would be don't get involved, but then are we all complicit via our silence

 

[Howardh]

I did think that there was always the possibly that they did actually have a ticket. But they why not show it? There was no way this individual didn't hear or see the guard asking for tickets.

I suspected the advice would be don't get involved, but then are we all complicit via our silence

Could be a season ticket regular known to the guard! I find that on a lengthy journey, you show your ticket once as he/she walks round, and next time they come round they seem to know who has already shown! Those skills are way over my short memory capacity, and we're very grateful so we're not continually fumbling for (and losing) our tickets!

 

[Antman]

I once told a member of Southern staff at Victoria that I had seen somebody tailgate somebody else through the ticket gate and board a train, he just shrugged his shoulders and said "that happens all the time here". He couldn't care less so why should I?

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Some of us do care tho. Have a quiet word with the train crew. As i often quote on here....

If you dont tell us about it, we cant do anything about it!!!

 

[DeeGee]

I've just completed a short rail journey and saw somebody board the train at a station which is without a ticket office. The guard came through the train and asked to see tickets and the aforementioned passenger didn't show a ticket. After that I had a quiet word with the guard but probably too late as he was on his way to open the doors at the terminus.

So my question is really what should the public do? Is it in our remit to embarrass fare evaders with questions like "I thought I saw you board at station X" as the guard passes asking for tickets. Is a quiet word with the guard the way? Is it a word with the barrier staff?

Was the passenger hiding in the bogs? Or was he in plain sight of the guard. If so, there must be a reason why the guard, on spotting him, chose not to interrogate him. The guard probably dispatched the train and saw the passenger get on.

Life's too short to worry about this sort of thing. My rule is simple. Is it directly harming me? Is it directly harming someone else? If the answer to neither is "Yes", then I let it go, and get on with my own life.

 

[LexyBoy]

Surely it's the responsibility of the guard/RPI to remember who has already shown a ticket if they are doing a "any unchecked tickets please" check. Relying on passengers honesty in order to pick up fare evaders has a slight flaw...

Many a time I've missed one simply by not noticing the guard until they've already passed my row.

 

[321446]

Another thought is that the person could've been an off duty member of staff known to the guard. All sorts of variables. My TOC used to have posters with a number to txt, which I thought was a good idea.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

Another thought is that the person could've been an off duty member of staff known to the guard.

That being the case, some sort of acknowledgement exchange would have taken place between the two. It soulnd like to me the OP is stating this individual deliverately ignored the guard.

All sorts of variables

Again, a comment to the train crew would not have gone amiss. If the guard already knew the individual, they would happily point this out. Im not saying openly remonstrate, but theres no harm in a discrete word, and i think you will find the vast majority of us will appreciate the tip-off. Even better if a revenue officer is on board or at the destination station as had the individual deliberately ignored the guard when requested to produce their ticket, then that is a knock for the RPO! Happy days for him/her!

[soapbox mode]

The trouble is too many think that it is not their problem, yet will quite happily take to social media to berate the company for not doing anything about it. Yet not knowing about it, we cant do anything about it. If more people stood up and said enough is enough and stopped accepting that others take the p1$$ and get away with it then perhaps society as a whole would start to improve. However, until then, we have the "i have the right" brigade to deal with. Too often people are forgetting that those rights have responsibilities that go with them

[/soapbox]

 

[GodAtum]

Some of us do care tho. Have a quiet word with the train crew. As i often quote on here....

If you dont tell us about it, we cant do anything about it!!!

Exactly, I dont want to have a bystander mentality.

 

[Steveoh]

Originally Posted by 321446 View Post
Another thought is that the person could've been an off duty member of staff known to the guard.
That being the case, some sort of acknowledgement exchange would have taken place between the two. It soulnd like to me the OP is stating this individual deliverately ignored the guard.

I very much doubt they knew each other. You can see the signs, the head down, look away slink into the corner type, oo smile of acknowledgement, eye contact etc. I'm sure all guards have seen it. I might have been wrong of course which is why I choose the quiet word in the ear. Other times on busy trains I've boarded at the same station and sat next to people who've boarded with me I've shown a ticket they haven't.

But I go back to my point which is are we the passengers complicit if we see something and choose to ignore it? I think it's a hard one. I've no wish for a confrontation, I just want to get home after spending all week on the road. However I pay my fare why should somebody else not.

The consensus seems to be a quiet word is the best way of dealing with it.

 

[yorkie]

I've just completed a short rail journey and saw somebody board the train at a station which is without a ticket office. The guard came through the train and asked to see tickets and the aforementioned passenger didn't show a ticket. After that I had a quiet word with the guard but probably too late as he was on his way to open the doors at the terminus.

So my question is really what should the public do? Is it in our remit to embarrass fare evaders with questions like "I thought I saw you board at station X" as the guard passes asking for tickets. Is a quiet word with the guard the way? Is it a word with the barrier staff?

Definitely have a word with the Guard/ticket examiner.

I wouldn't involve yourself; for example on occasions I've shown a ticket to a Guard on a platform and asked if I was able to use that ticket on the train. Also I will often leave tickets on the table for inspection so I can get on with listening to music or something, and the inspector may simply glance at the ticket without picking them up. You'd have to be sat very close to someone to be certain that something like this didn't take place.

I recall once a group of passengers claiming that we managed to get a free journey when we alighted a Wrexham & Shropshire train at Wolverhampton because the Guard hadn't got to us. In fact we had Advance tickets to various places in Yorkshire and our journey had only just begun!

 

[Pinza-C55]

I've just completed a short rail journey and saw somebody board the train at a station which is without a ticket office. The guard came through the train and asked to see tickets and the aforementioned passenger didn't show a ticket. After that I had a quiet word with the guard but probably too late as he was on his way to open the doors at the terminus.

So my question is really what should the public do? Is it in our remit to embarrass fare evaders with questions like "I thought I saw you board at station X" as the guard passes asking for tickets. Is a quiet word with the guard the way? Is it a word with the barrier staff?

Pretend to get off, inform the guard and move to another seat.

 

[reb0118]

I did think that there was...the possibly that they did...have a ticket. But the[n] why not show it?

You would be amazed how many passengers travelling with valid tickets do not show them to guards when they pass - every so often when I have the time, and my passenger tallies do not match, I'll do a full check - and lo & behold the passengers I suspect of having "slung me a deafie" are sometimes found to be in possession of a valid ticket, normally a season.

To answer your question: if you suspect fare evasion tell the guard (on the QT) and he'll take it from there.

Cheers.

 

[bb21]

You would be amazed how many passengers travelling with valid tickets do not show them to guards when they pass - every so often when I have the time, and my passenger tallies do not match, I'll do a full check - and lo & behold the passengers I suspect of having "slung me a deafie" are sometimes found to be in possession of a valid ticket, normally a season.

To answer your question: if you suspect fare evasion tell the guard (on the QT) and he'll take it from there.

Cheers.

Or those with period returns?

 

[Be3G]

Interesting thread. Close to a decade ago I witnessed what was a clear attempt at fare evasion: a female boarded a train at Waterloo, and later in the journey when she was asked to show a ticket, said she didn't have one and had boarded at a station further down the line. However, I believe the person checking the ticket was just a guard so not someone who could've taken much action I presume. I often wonder if I should've said/done something. As has already been commented in this thread, I'm not one for confrontation – but then again, I don't like the idea of people getting a free ride either!

 

[reb0118]

Or those with period returns?

Very good. There are a few of those too, however a common trick there is to merely show the ticket behind a clear plastic ticket wallet.

 

[route:oxford]

I've just completed a short rail journey and saw somebody board the train at a station which is without a ticket office. The guard came through the train and asked to see tickets and the aforementioned passenger didn't show a ticket. After that I had a quiet word with the guard but probably too late as he was on his way to open the doors at the terminus.

So my question is really what should the public do? Is it in our remit to embarrass fare evaders with questions like "I thought I saw you board at station X" as the guard passes asking for tickets. Is a quiet word with the guard the way? Is it a word with the barrier staff?

I wouldn't bother about it.

If you read through the forums, you'll find it's a game that some rail enthusiasts play to try and catch-out the on-train staff then complain about their lack of attention on here.

 

[matt_world2004]

If the Guard /another member of staff is aware that the person doesnt have ticket (Which if he went through and didn't check his he would be) then it is upto the guard to alert the appropriate person

 

[iainbhx]

Could be a season ticket regular known to the guard! I find that on a lengthy journey, you show your ticket once as he/she walks round, and next time they come round they seem to know who has already shown! Those skills are way over my short memory capacity, and we're very grateful so we're not continually fumbling for (and losing) our tickets!

I commute to Crewe and London Midland usually do a check before Wolverhampton, another check before Stafford and one before Crewe. It is incredibly rare that I get asked more than once. In fact one or two of the staff who regularly do that service have made comments like "No need, Sir, I saw you had renewed last week". LM have some very good staff on that service.

 

[Starmill]

I wouldn't bother about it.

If you read through the forums, you'll find it's a game that some rail enthusiasts play to try and catch-out the on-train staff then complain about their lack of attention on here.

Really? That seems to have entirely passed me by. Are you sure you think that's what's happening, and do you have any evidence? Because I doubt that highly.

You must've just gotten the wrong end of the stick with something.

 

[yorkie]

I wouldn't bother about it.

If you read through the forums, you'll find it's a game that some rail enthusiasts play to try and catch-out the on-train staff then complain about their lack of attention on here.

Send me with a PM with details and I'll look into it. Thanks.

 

[StateOfPlay]

I decided to go 1st class for a change the other week as I am recovering from a knee op. As I walked along the platform the group in front of me were saying how they were going to sit in 1st class even though they didn't have tickets because no-one ever checks.

As I followed them onto the 1st class carriage I went left, they right, and as I sat down I noticed a ticket inspector sat down in the corner being very incognito. The 1st class carriage really filled up that night, much busier than usual.

Anyway, the ticket guy was still sat down on the train as we pulled into Finsbury Park, so I thought maybe he was off duty and on his way home. As soon as the train pulled out of FP he went straight to them and asked to see their tickets.

I did have a quiet little chuckle to myself, but I was further amazed as he kept checking tickets that most of the people in it didn't have 1st class. By the time he had taken their details, asked them to move into the standard carriage, I was pretty much on my own!

But, the funniest I ever saw was a guy running onto the train at Finsbury Park as the doors closed, sweating like crazy, sat down in the seat in front of me, and said to the guy next to him that he had only just made it, and even better was he didn't have to buy a ticket. The guy sat next to him pulled out his id hahahaha

 

[LowLevel]

Surely it's the responsibility of the guard/RPI to remember who has already shown a ticket if they are doing a "any unchecked tickets please" check. Relying on passengers honesty in order to pick up fare evaders has a slight flaw...

Many a time I've missed one simply by not noticing the guard until they've already passed my row.

Forget it, I can't remember x hundred faces. I'm not that good

Some people just aren't memorable. People who look nervous, cause an issue, look striking and I'll admit it, that I think are cute, are likely to stick in my head and by and large I probably get it mostly right. But I inevitably miss some and also get some false positives I ask twice. It's easier on local services with local style stock as I can see who is boarding and where they sit down. On 158s I have to try and remember things like clothing and faces and do my best.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

^ glad im not the only one who struggles to remember who i have already clocked!

 

[Delta558]

Surely it's the responsibility of the guard/RPI to remember who has already shown a ticket if they are doing a "any unchecked tickets please" check.

Quite simply, No. It is the passenger's responsibility to either show a ticket or request to buy one. If I walk through the train and you don't show / ask to buy and are then caught by revenue protection for not having a valid ticket, the fact that I walked past you is not a valid excuse. Similarly, you have a ticket for a request stop and I walk past - unless you stop me and tell me, there's no guarantee we'll stop.

The onus is on the passenger, always has been and I don't see it being changed (remember, we could have several hundred people on our train and seeing one new face in all that is bloody difficult). If you want to sit quietly and not make yourself known, I don't really care. If you subsequently come up to me with a problem and I've not marked your ticket, I'll be blunt in informing you that it's your fault, not mine