TfL season ticket loan process

[casio]

Hi everyone, new to this forum. Just a few questions I was looking to get answered.

I am soon to start working for TfL, and I just have a few questions about their season ticket loan. I have asked these questions, but the response has largely been one of "you will find out everything when you start".

1. Is there a maximum price they will offer the 75% reimbursement and interest free loan? If so, what is this limit?

2. I don't think it will be, but is the loan applicable to a PlusBus season ticket in my local area?

3. How long does this process take to complete? I can manage for a few weeks at a squeeze, but looking to get this sorted ASAP.

4. Finally, how is the loan made? Via cheque or some other form of payment.

Thanks in advance.

 

[laird]

1. No but the tax man becomes interested over a set limit see HMRC website.
2. Plusbus is not allowed for the 75% but you might get it included in the loan element.
3. The form filling takes a few minutes but the loan amount appears in your pay at the next opportunity
4. It will be in your pay so no cheque etc.
There are a few routes where other arrangements apply typically ECML routes from memory.

 

[casio]

1. No but the tax man becomes interested over a set limit see HMRC website.
2. Plusbus is not allowed for the 75% but you might get it included in the loan element.
3. The form filling takes a few minutes but the loan amount appears in your pay at the next opportunity
4. It will be in your pay so no cheque etc.
There are a few routes where other arrangements apply typically ECML routes from memory.

Thank you very much! I will be travelling from Luton and as far as I'm aware, looks like my best option will be using my Dad's credit card and then paying him back when I first get paid then as I can't afford a whole month of purchasing tickets out of my own money and since it will be paid into my account, no worries about having an paying earlier.

I will double check with them and apply for the loan before doing anything though.

 

[CyrusWuff]

I'm not sure about TfL, but you may find that you have to have been employed for a certain period of time before you can apply for a season ticket loan. You'll possibly also need to provide a copy of the ticket and/or receipt as a condition of getting the loan.

 

[Deerfold]

Thank you very much! I will be travelling from Luton and as far as I'm aware, looks like my best option will be using my Dad's credit card and then paying him back when I first get paid then as I can't afford a whole month of purchasing tickets out of my own money and since it will be paid into my account, no worries about having an paying earlier.

I will double check with them and apply for the loan before doing anything though.

You can get a 75% discounted annual ticket from Luton (unless this has changed very recently) - i.e. you don't have to reclaim it and pay extra tax.

However this ticket will only be valid on Thameslink, not East Midland trains.

You'll need to be able to provide a copy of the ticket to your line manager and/or HR if requested.

From Luton your loan will be well within any limits.

You have to apply for the loan at least 2 weeks before payday and be a full time employee.

 

[benk1342]

TfL has two different regimes for discounted seasons.

The normal course is that you buy a full-price, normal season ticket from the station and concurrently apply for a loan from TfL that reimburses you for the price of the ticket and for which you only have to pay back 25%. The loan comes as a lump sum in your pay, and the repayments come over the course of the next ten periods. The rub is that you have to pay tax on the 75% that you are not paying back.

As Deerfold pointed out, there is a separate scheme for VTEC, Great Northern and Thameslink (but NOT Southern). Under this scheme, you apply for a Priv season through the Staff Travel office at 25% the normal price. The benefit here is you do not have to pay tax on the 75% remainder, which can save you a lot of money. The relatively smaller downside is that you can't apply for the ticket until you start at TfL, and it can take up to four weeks to come through (though in practice it is often quicker). So you will need to buy full price weeklies in the interim.

Also as Deerfold pointed out you can't use the Priv season on EMT - it will say Thameslink Only.

 

[infobleep]

TfL has two different regimes for discounted seasons.

The normal course is that you buy a full-price, normal season ticket from the station and concurrently apply for a loan from TfL that reimburses you for the price of the ticket and for which you only have to pay back 25%. The loan comes as a lump sum in your pay, and the repayments come over the course of the next ten periods. The rub is that you have to pay tax on the 75% that you are not paying back.

As Deerfold pointed out, there is a separate scheme for VTEC, Great Northern and Thameslink (but NOT Southern). Under this scheme, you apply for a Priv season through the Staff Travel office at 25% the normal price. The benefit here is you do not have to pay tax on the 75% remainder, which can save you a lot of money. The relatively smaller downside is that you can't apply for the ticket until you start at TfL, and it can take up to four weeks to come through (though in practice it is often quicker). So you will need to buy full price weeklies in the interim.

Also as Deerfold pointed out you can't use the Priv season on EMT - it will say Thameslink Only.

Out of interest, do people think they will extend the ticket to cover Southern branded services?

 

[benk1342]

Out of interest, do people think they will extend the ticket to cover Southern branded services?

Unlikely, as currently this is expected to sunset with VTEC, Thameslink and Great Northern next year.

 

[casio]

Hi, a bump almost a year later. I decided to get the season ticket with a loan and reimbursement. The extra tax I have paid is pretty annoying, even if I have used East Midland trains every now and then. No where near enough to justify it.

My next season ticket will be the Thameslink only one. Just a question on this. Am I complying with the t&cs if I get a Thameslink only season ticket to Kentish Town (even though I seldom get on a train that stops there) and use my TfL staff Oyster card to exit the station at either STP or BFR?

Must I have to get a train that stops at Kentish town?

If not, then it makes sense just to get a season ticket: Luton to London Thameslink.

Hope someone can help here.

 

[Mojo]

I don't know if it's still online, but the old price list ONLY gave prices from the North to Kentish Tw, obviously on the understanding that there is no need to buy it to London Thameslink as it's free to London Bridge/Elephant.

 

[CyrusWuff]

BRFares gives fares for both Luton - Kentish Town (£85.80 a week) and Luton - London Thameslink (£99.00 a week). However, it's a grey area as to whether you'd be able to combine the former with a staff pass if using trains that don't stop at Kentish Town.

 

[benk1342]

Out of interest, do people think they will extend the ticket to cover Southern branded services?

As long has this thread has been bumped, worth updating to say that my prediction was wrong - in fact, this facility has been extended to Southern services as of May 2016.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

I don't know if it's still online, but the old price list ONLY gave prices from the North to Kentish Tw, obviously on the understanding that there is no need to buy it to London Thameslink as it's free to London Bridge/Elephant.

I agree with Mojo's reasoning, which holds true with the current price list on the Staff Travel intranet pages.

If you want to be sure, though, give Staff Travel a ring. I'm sure you're not the first person who has asked this!

 

[amateur]

TfL has two different regimes for discounted seasons.

The normal course is that you buy a full-price, normal season ticket from the station and concurrently apply for a loan from TfL that reimburses you for the price of the ticket and for which you only have to pay back 25%. The loan comes as a lump sum in your pay, and the repayments come over the course of the next ten periods. The rub is that you have to pay tax on the 75% that you are not paying back.

As Deerfold pointed out, there is a separate scheme for VTEC, Great Northern and Thameslink (but NOT Southern). Under this scheme, you apply for a Priv season through the Staff Travel office at 25% the normal price. The benefit here is you do not have to pay tax on the 75% remainder, which can save you a lot of money. The relatively smaller downside is that you can't apply for the ticket until you start at TfL, and it can take up to four weeks to come through (though in practice it is often quicker). So you will need to buy full price weeklies in the interim.

Also as Deerfold pointed out you can't use the Priv season on EMT - it will say Thameslink Only.

Why would anyone choose the former and not the latter? I can see no benefits from this ....unless I'm missing something?

Is the agreement exclusive to thameslink, Gn and VTEC? What if you live elsewhere? Do chiltern, swt, vtwc, lm not offer the same concession? For tfl employees?

 

[casio]

Why would anyone choose the former and not the latter? I can see no benefits from this ....unless I'm missing something?

Is the agreement exclusive to thameslink, Gn and VTEC? What if you live elsewhere? Do chiltern, swt, vtwc, lm not offer the same concession? For tfl employees?

For me a number of reasons. As I was new work in general, I wasn't aware (naive) about how the tax implications would even work. From the people I met, there was no strong suggestion that the Thameslink one was better. I caught and still do catch EMTs every now and then as they are quicker.

Regret it now, but you live and you learn.

They do have a few other agreements with other services. SouthEastern and Southern are two others I believe. Might be a few others I don't know aboutm

 

[benk1342]

Why would anyone choose the former and not the latter? I can see no benefits from this ....unless I'm missing something?

Is the agreement exclusive to thameslink, Gn and VTEC? What if you live elsewhere? Do chiltern, swt, vtwc, lm not offer the same concession? For tfl employees?

Correct - the agreement is exclusive to GTR (now including Southern though previously just Thameslink and Great Northern) and VTEC presumably for "historical reasons" though I don't know the details.

There are three reasons why someone might choose to buy a normal season and then get reimbursed: First, with the concessionary season on GTR and VTEC you don't get a gold card. Second, if you are a new starter you can have a normal season ready for your first day, and then get reimbursed, whereas the concessionary season takes a few weeks to process and you can't start the process till your first day. Third, the concessionary seasons are GTR (or VTEC) only - so you lose the flexibility of using an alternative operator. This is particularly relevant for commuters from Bedford and Luton who may want the flexibility of using EMT and are willing to pay a bit extra for this. I think this is probably the only good reason as the first two reasons probably aren't worth the added expense of the extra tax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

They do have a few other agreements with other services. SouthEastern and Southern are two others I believe. Might be a few others I don't know aboutm

Not Southeastern - just GTR (including Southern) and VTEC.

And the VTEC arrangement is currently scheduled to end on 30 Sept 2016 (you can buy tickets up till this date and they will remain valid till expiry) - but I wouldn't be surprised if it gets extended as this date approaches.

 

[amateur]

Correct - the agreement is exclusive to GTR (now including Southern though previously just Thameslink and Great Northern) and VTEC presumably for "historical reasons" though I don't know the details.

Third, the concessionary seasons are GTR (or VTEC) only - so you lose the flexibility of using an alternative operator. This is particularly relevant for commuters from Bedford and Luton who may want the flexibility of using EMT and are willing to pay a bit extra for this. I think this is probably the only good reason as the first two reasons probably aren't worth the added expense of the extra tax.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---


Not Southeastern - just GTR (including Southern) and VTEC.

move to Peterborough instead!

 

[benk1342]

move to Peterborough instead!

Even then, you have to choose - just Great Northern, or just VTEC.

 

[amateur]

Oh! I misunderstood. I thought you could travel on BOTH Gtr and VTec. Didn't realise it were either. Obviously VTec any day of the week, if one did travel from Posh!

 

[matt_world2004]

You can get a 75% discounted annual ticket from Luton (unless this has changed very recently) - i.e. you don't have to reclaim it and pay extra tax.

However this ticket will only be valid on Thameslink, not East Midland trains.

You'll need to be able to provide a copy of the ticket to your line manager and/or HR if requested.

From Luton your loan will be well within any limits.

You have to apply for the loan at least 2 weeks before payday and be a full time employee.

This ticket also, is only valid for commuting to work and cannot be used for personal and work related travel. For example if your TfL Job as a buses revenue inspector meant working all over London. You were given a bus route in Kings Cross to check and then a bus in Mill Hill Broadway to check. You could not hop on the thameslink to get to that second bus.

If you Lived in Luton and decided to go on the lash one evening after work. you technically cannot use the ticket to then get back home, You could not use the ticket to travel into London on a rest day either. Whereas with the 75% season ticket reinbursement scheme the ticket can be used for personal and duty related travel for the cost of the tax bill that you pick up. ( I wonder if you did a significant amount of duty related travel with the ticket could you write off elements of the income tax bill)

 

[amateur]

I presume you would be taxed at BR or 20%. Unless you earn less than 11k (which is the personal allowance) then you would pay no tax!

 

[Mojo]

Oh! I misunderstood. I thought you could travel on BOTH Gtr and VTec. Didn't realise it were either. Obviously VTec any day of the week, if one did travel from Posh!

I've never heard Peterborough ever descrbed as "Posh" before!

As to whether you travel on GTR or East Coast; that depends on what hours you work. Whilst I should imagine East Coast would be better for most; the last GTR train leaving London is some 2 Hrs after the last East Coast service. Similarly in the morning the first East Coast train doesn't arrive until 7 whereas the first GTR train arrives just after 5.

 

[MikeWh]

I've never heard Peterborough ever descrbed as "Posh" before!

Not a football fan then. Peterborough FC's nickname is "The Posh".

 

[benk1342]

This ticket also, is only valid for commuting to work and cannot be used for personal and work related travel. For example if your TfL Job as a buses revenue inspector meant working all over London. You were given a bus route in Kings Cross to check and then a bus in Mill Hill Broadway to check. You could not hop on the thameslink to get to that second bus.

If you Lived in Luton and decided to go on the lash one evening after work. you technically cannot use the ticket to then get back home, You could not use the ticket to travel into London on a rest day either. Whereas with the 75% season ticket reinbursement scheme the ticket can be used for personal and duty related travel for the cost of the tax bill that you pick up. ( I wonder if you did a significant amount of duty related travel with the ticket could you write off elements of the income tax bill)

What is your source for this? I'm not persuaded that it is correct. Nothing like this appears in the Conditions of Use for the scheme on the Staff Travel website.

 

[Deerfold]

What is your source for this? I'm not persuaded that it is correct. Nothing like this appears in the Conditions of Use for the scheme on the Staff Travel website.

Have you looked at the form you sign?

 

[benk1342]

Have you looked at the form you sign?

Yes. Nothing of the sort on there.

 

[Panda]

What is your source for this? I'm not persuaded that it is correct. Nothing like this appears in the Conditions of Use for the scheme on the Staff Travel website.

The only wording that could cause confusion is that it says "for home to work travel" - I think some might interpret it as the purpose of travel that you can use it for, rather than the route of travel (which I believe is the intention of the wording).

 

[benk1342]

The only wording that could cause confusion is that it says "for home to work travel" - I think some might interpret it as the purpose of travel that you can use it for, rather than the route of travel (which I believe is the intention of the wording).

What document are you looking at? I don't see this in either the current Conditions of Use, or in the language on the GTR application form.

 

[matt_world2004]

I am sure it said on the form when I looked at it Strictly for residential travel only not for personal or duty related travel.

 

[benk1342]

I am sure it said on the form when I looked at it Strictly for residential travel only not for personal or duty related travel.

Perhaps in the past but I am quite confident this is not the case now.

I don't mean to be pedantic or argumentative - I would just hate for a reader in the OP's position to be unnecessarily dissuaded from purchasing one of these tickets.

 

[Deerfold]

Yes. Nothing of the sort on there.

I no longer work for TfL so can't access the current documents but the form you filled out and signed for the EC ticket certainly used to mention that they were for travel to work only - It'll be over a year since I last filled one out though so they may well have been updated.