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Euston 'level decking' and over-throat development - post-Higgins plans

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swt_passenger

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Btw, how much spare capacity is there at Paddington...

Close to zero? They are already planning to re-arrange the north side of the station to give much longer platforms, (combining 12 and 13 I think), both for the intended post IEP service patterns, and for the new 12 car EMUs used on services to Oxford and Swindon etc.
 
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33Hz

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Pity they've built flats all over the King's Cross railway lands isn't it?
 

Hadders

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The new Crick Institute building is between the British Library and Brill Place.
 

HSTEd

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In hindsight the Library should never have been built there.
We could have used that space for future High Speed line termini and eventually built up to a unified super station stretching all the way from KGX to Euston.
 

33Hz

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Yes that was an exemplary bit of foresight..

It didn't take much - I was calling it at the time. The SRA was already doing studies into high speed rail before that scheme was given the go ahead.

Money will always trump common sense.
 

pablo

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There is no agency charged with strategic planning in this country, so it seems. Polititions are evidently incapable of it and civil servants would find it too dangerous. So, it's left to chance and afterthought.
 

CdBrux

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HS2 have just put this press release on their site:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/hs2-plans-can-unlock-euston-potential

Plans to bring high speed rail to Euston station and restore its place at the heart of the country’s transport network will be submitted to Parliament next week.

Eleven new platforms for HS2 will be built at the station in two stages as part of a phased approach that means less disruption for passengers. The plans, which will now be considered by Parliament, also offer the flexibility to transform the station into a thriving transport and community hub.

The new Euston station will provide high speed rail services from London to the Midlands, the North and Scotland. The latest plans, produced by HS2 Ltd following extensive work with rail industry partners and taking into account the aspiration for wider redevelopment, will unlock the potential at the site of the capital’s greatest regeneration opportunity.

The provision of underpinning support structures as part of the plans will allow a range of uses above the station, delivering the flexibility for a future decision on the wider redevelopment and regeneration of the area.

As well as the 11 high speed platforms provided by the new plan, 11 platforms will remain in the current station to serve the existing network. There will be new public spaces for shops, restaurants and cafes.


HS2 vision for Euston platform
The high speed station will be delivered in two stages:
•The construction of six new high speed platforms and concourse to the west of the station to support the opening of HS2 Phase One (between London and the Midlands) high speed services in 2026
•The construction of five further high speed platforms and concourse to support the opening of Phase Two (between London and Leeds/Manchester) high speed services in 2033

The plans also enable potential redevelopment of the remaining existing station platforms and concourses, subject to future funding and approvals.

The staged approach to building the high speed terminus means existing services can continue to operate, reducing both disruption for passengers and the effects on the community as a whole at any one time.


HS2 vision for Euston southern entrance
London Underground facilities at Euston will also be significantly enhanced with passengers benefitting from greater space and connections to services including a new ticket hall and direct subway to Euston Square station. Access to taxis, buses and cycles will also be greatly improved.

Simon Kirby, HS2 Ltd Chief Executive, said:


These firm proposals will allow Euston to fulfil its potential.”


It’s time for Euston to change. Not just if it is to fulfil its historic role as the gateway between London and much of the rest of the country, but also if it’s to become a much bigger and fully accessible part of its own community.”


Just a stone’s throw away, we have seen how the stations at King’s Cross and St. Pancras have transformed the surrounding areas into vibrant and thriving locations.”


We must replicate and build on that commercial and architectural success. Now is the time for Euston to catch up with its neighbours to meet the requirements of the 21st century and beyond.”

London’s first inter-city train station, Euston opened in 1837. It now caters for around 42 million passengers a year – more than double the design capacity of the current station which was built in 1968.

As passenger numbers continue to rise, its facilities and links with London Underground face an increasing and unsustainable challenge every day.

Rupert Walker, Euston Development Director for HS2 Ltd and Network Rail, said:


Euston needs to become a station that both the nation and local community can be proud of – and share. It will be the best connected station in London; a crossroads between the north and the south, quickly and easily accessible from all parts of the capital and, with HS2, the country.”


This will take time and inevitably cause disruption to both the community and commuters as we work to bring about change but at each stage we will do our best to explain what we are doing, and why, as well as listening to ideas about what the new Euston should look and feel like.”


We will also set out at each stage how we will try to minimise the impact of the work and attempt to respond to concerns from both the community and passengers, learning from experiences on other major projects.”

The plans are proposed for inclusion in the High Speed Rail (London-West Midlands) Bill by means of an Additional Provision (AP) which is due, subject to the approval of Parliament, to be deposited later this month.

Transport Secretary Patrick McLoughlin said:

“HS2 offers a once in a lifetime opportunity to revolutionise not just Euston station but a whole area at the heart of London. The new station will be the catalyst for wider redevelopment and so it is right that we are ambitious in our plans to dramatically improve the design, capacity and technology used.

“The plans outlined today are essential for the local community, but they also set out a vital piece of infrastructure that will benefit the whole nation – both by improving journeys, and also by supporting jobs, enabling business growth and bringing our country closer together. These are the first steps towards creating a station in Euston of which both the local community and national passengers can be proud.”
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Though Camden council not impressed (I wonder if the only think they want is for the project to be cancelled?):

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/lond...or-euston-stations-225bn-revamp-a2942441.html

The revisions were meant to address Camden council concerns about the original plan, but the council immediately dismissed them as “short-sighted”.

It said they would blight the area for more than a decade, while potentially failing to deliver up to 6,000 jobs, 1,000 homes and a £400 million economic boost for the area.

But town hall chiefs want a comprehensive redevelopment of the existing station area to include the new terminal, with HS2 and mainline tracks all on one level, and able to integrate Crossrail 2.

Camden council leader Sarah Hayward said: “If HS2 goes ahead with these plans, Camden suffers all of the pain with none of the benefits.”
 
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From the Guardian

Revised HS2 plans for Euston extend build time by seven years

Bosses say proposals leave room for redevelopment and minimise disruption at London station but Camden council says serious questions remain

Gwyn Topham Transport correspondent

HS2 has unveiled revised plans for its London terminus at Euston, prolonging construction by seven years and incorporating a bright yellow roof over its high-speed rail platforms.

The £2.25bn development at the station will now be completed in 2033 rather than 2026, built in two stages to limit disruption to passengers on the traditional network. Work is due to begin in 2017.

HS2 bosses said the proposals, which must be approved by parliament, were flexible enough to allow redevelopment of the type that has been done around London St Pancras, the terminus for HS1.

Although the chancellor, George Osborne, and David Higgins, HS2’s chair, have pledged something more ambitious for Euston, the proposals so far only cover HS2’s infrastructure rather than an anticipated wider redevelopment plan for Euston station and the surrounding area.

Network Rail has yet to spell out how it will redevelop the existing station, and the arguments over what will be built above or alongside to replace demolished homes and shops will not be settled for years.

The revised blueprint does not alter the proposed destruction of homes and businesses to the west of the existing station, where the first six HS2 platforms will be built ready for service in 2026. A further five will replace platforms within the existing station by 2033.

Rupert Walker, the Euston development director for HS2 and Network Rail, said the original plans did not make the most of redevelopment opportunities and meant “disruption to passengers would have been a real issue”.

He said planners had “redesigned from the bottom up, and reviewed every single requirement for the needs of HS2, rail passengers and the community”, adding: “Euston needs to become a station that both the nation and local community can be proud of – and share.”

But Camden council, whose residents will suffer the greatest disruption during the construction, criticised the revised plans. It said: “The council feels serious questions have been left unanswered on how major transport projects, such as Crossrail 2, will integrate with the station, and worries Camden will lose out as the full opportunity for local jobs and affordable homes on the site will not be realised as there is no commitment to comprehensive development of the station.”

Walker confirmed that the plans finally ruled out any possible link between HS2 and HS1, the high-speed train line to Paris which starts at nearby St Pancras. A mooted travelator appears off the cards for now: instead, Walker said the new station layout, merging with Euston Square underground station, would allow passengers with heavy luggage to take the Circle line for one stop to change to trains to Europe.

http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...d-build-time-by-seven-years?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews

The last paragraph is a bit concerning, I can understand why a dedicated heavy rail link between HS1 and HS2 is not worth the cost but the idea passengers with luggage would do what is said above is pretty ridiculous. A travelator link between Euston and St Pancras would only be like going from the main terminal building at Heathrow to one of the satellite terminals.

That said I imagine most passengers with luggage would be business men and women heading to the continent for a short business trip with a small overnight bag not someone going on holiday for a long period of time with lots of luggage
 
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CdBrux

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I suspect a walking / travellator link between the two would become a possibility with CR2 if they have a double ended station between Euston & StP
 

MarkyT

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I suspect a walking / travellator link between the two would become a possibility with CR2 if they have a double ended station between Euston & StP

I remember it being mentioned again not so long ago. It's a long walk certainly, but a shallow subsurface link between the Crossrail 2 entrances would be only a little longer than some existing London Underground connecting tunnels, and equivalent to many airport transfer links. It would also link the Kings Cross developments lands better with the Euston station complex. Euston and St Pancras are only around 500m apart in a straight line, but existing walking routes extend this to more like 800m and involve a number of road crossings, not to mention braving the elements! An interchange via a tube line requires just as long a walk in total as a direct tunnel link, as well as a wait for a train likely to be crowded already.
 
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CdBrux

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The council leader and the HS2 person leading Euston have just been interviewed on BBC radio 4 Today programme. The council leader said she accepted the station would need to be redeveloped (though in an ideal world she wanted it left as is!!) and her main point was the lack of integration between HS2 & NR in developing one plan for the station, not to mention CR2.

HS2 guy said NR were working on something, but he seemed fairly vague on what they might be. So she (council leader) seems to have a bit of a point, although we don't know what is happening behind the scenes to join all the thinking up (or not!). I suspect HS2 are doing their bit only to avoid any extra money creeping in for stuff not directly related to them
 

glbotu

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From the Guardian



http://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/...d-build-time-by-seven-years?CMP=twt_b-gdnnews

The last paragraph is a bit concerning, I can understand why a dedicated heavy rail link between HS1 and HS2 is not worth the cost but the idea passengers with luggage would do what is said above is pretty ridiculous. A travelator link between Euston and St Pancras would only be like going from the main terminal building at Heathrow to one of the satellite terminals.

That said I imagine most passengers with luggage would be business men and women heading to the continent for a short business trip with a small overnight bag not someone going on holiday for a long period of time with lots of luggage

Surely this is a bit like Crossrail to Reading, where TfL didn't want to pay for Reading electrification, so didn't put it in their plans. Once it electrification got finalised as part of GWML electrification, Crossrail changed their plans.

HS2 don't want to fork out the cost of building the Euston St Pancras Cross London Hauptbahnhof super-interchange, and are hoping TfL do it for them. It'll have to happen, because otherwise chaos would ensure, but if HS2 put it in their specs, they have to pay for it. If TfL do it as part of Crossrail 2, they don't.
 
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Surely this is a bit like Crossrail to Reading, where TfL didn't want to pay for Reading electrification, so didn't put it in their plans. Once it electrification got finalised as part of GWML electrification, Crossrail changed their plans.

HS2 don't want to fork out the cost of building the Euston St Pancras Cross London Hauptbahnhof super-interchange, and are hoping TfL do it for them. It'll have to happen, because otherwise chaos would ensure, but if HS2 put it in their specs, they have to pay for it. If TfL do it as part of Crossrail 2, they don't.

Surely the logical thing to do is for HS2 Ltd, Network Rail and TfL to get together and form a joint committee to develop a materplan for Euston that includes all the platforms needed for HS2, redevelopment of the rest of the station and builds in passive provision for Crossrail 2 and a link to St Pancras/HS1. One the design has been agreed then each part can fund their own sections.

My Concern is that HS2 Ltd are working on their part, Network rail on theirs and TfL on theirs but they are not discussing each others needs enough and that will lead to problems in the future.
 

HSTEd

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But then you had more ammunition to the Antis who will assign the entire cost of the project to HS2.
 

Bletchleyite

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But then you had more ammunition to the Antis who will assign the entire cost of the project to HS2.

Which isn't *unreasonable* given that the present station does (just about) fulfil the requirements of the WCML.

(I'm not anti-HS2 per-se, but I'm anti what it has become; my preference would be for something aimed more at capacity, acting more like a Swiss or German Neubaustrecke than a French LGV; any work at Euston would be on a whole-station basis and not "an extra HS2 bit on the end").
 

Geezertronic

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I don't think the anti's need much excuse to complain about the cost, conveniently forgetting the additional costs for tunnelling through the Chilterns is as a direct result of the appeasement of the locals etc...
 
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But then you had more ammunition to the Antis who will assign the entire cost of the project to HS2.

Depends on how clear you are on the costs, with say the total redevelopment coasting £5 Billion with £2.5 Billion coming from HS2, £1.5 Billion from Network Rail and £1Billion from TfL.

Besides I am less concerned about the Anit-HS2 campaign now, it is effectively dead in the water, wouldn't hurt to wait till after the phase 1 bill actives royal royal assent though. :D
 

HSTEd

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(I'm not anti-HS2 per-se, but I'm anti what it has become; my preference would be for something aimed more at capacity, acting more like a Swiss or German Neubaustrecke than a French LGV; any work at Euston would be on a whole-station basis and not "an extra HS2 bit on the end").

In that case you need to argue for double deck 400m trains on all captive services then.
That will give you truly absurd capacity.
 

Bletchleyite

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In that case you need to argue for double deck 400m trains on all captive services then.
That will give you truly absurd capacity.

At the risk of going OT (if it goes much further I'll spawn a new thread) the Neubaustrecke concept wouldn't have *any* captive services. It would simply be an extra pair of lines on the WCML that (like the Northampton loop) don't happen to run alongside it. What to me is needed is *line* capacity which that option would provide.
 

glbotu

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At the risk of going OT (if it goes much further I'll spawn a new thread) the Neubaustrecke concept wouldn't have *any* captive services. It would simply be an extra pair of lines on the WCML that (like the Northampton loop) don't happen to run alongside it. What to me is needed is *line* capacity which that option would provide.

Certainly one of the main concerns I have about the potential success of HS2 is the lack of Classic connections near London, which would surely be a cheap way of extending services to places that aren't Euston and allowing for High Speed Freight at night.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
Surely the logical thing to do.............

I think you've found the problem.

............ is for HS2 Ltd, Network Rail and TfL to get together and form a joint committee to develop a materplan for Euston that includes all the platforms needed for HS2, redevelopment of the rest of the station and builds in passive provision for Crossrail 2 and a link to St Pancras/HS1. One the design has been agreed then each part can fund their own sections.

My Concern is that HS2 Ltd are working on their part, Network rail on theirs and TfL on theirs but they are not discussing each others needs enough and that will lead to problems in the future.

Yes, I totally agree, but due to the means by which everything is funded, it incentivises this method of working above sensible cooperation.
 

HSTEd

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High Speed Freight?
It would likely make better sense economically to extend passenger operation times.
You could probably generate quite a bit of traffic from stuff like the theatres in the West End (and other cultural things).
 

NotATrainspott

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The Additional Provision for the Hybrid Bill relating to Euston and the surrounding area has now been made public, and it shows the outline of the scheme which will actually be built. The plans only involve reconstructing the HS2 and LUL sides of the station, but there have been quite considerable changes which not only include the active provision of OSD decking, but also ensure that the reconstruction of the classic side can go ahead.

For example, the original Hybrid Bill submission included the reconstruction of the entire Euston concourse, including the classic area but then leading down to the existing set of platforms. It also used the parcels deck above the station for servicing the high speed platforms, which would have made it very difficult to then go around changing plans at some arbitrary point in the future. Now, the entirety of the HS2 station exists independently of the classic station, which will not be touched (including the concourse area) aside from the bare minimum required to make the station able to operate. High speed platform servicing now happens in a two-level basement underneath the platforms, meaning almost as much digging down is required as in the double-deck-down option.

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LesF

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Here we go again, trying to force through a £multi-billion project with no idea how it will finish up. For such stupidity, we deserve to suffer. And we will.
 

NotATrainspott

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Here we go again, trying to force through a £multi-billion project with no idea how it will finish up. For such stupidity, we deserve to suffer. And we will.

I don't see what the problem is now. The new Euston scheme is now deliverable and compatible with whatever option Network Rail chooses for the classic station. The construction programme for the Phase 2 platforms and the main LUL works at Euston runs from 2026 to 2033, since it requires the demolition of WCML platforms which would need to be relieved by HS2 services first, so they have more time than they had previously to build the scheme properly.
 

edwin_m

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I don't see what the problem is now. The new Euston scheme is now deliverable and compatible with whatever option Network Rail chooses for the classic station. The construction programme for the Phase 2 platforms and the main LUL works at Euston runs from 2026 to 2033, since it requires the demolition of WCML platforms which would need to be relieved by HS2 services first, so they have more time than they had previously to build the scheme properly.

Probably not what you'd build with infinite time and money and no need to keep the existing station at full capacity during the transition period. But seems a pretty reasonable compromise given these unavoidable constraints.

I hope the design makes some provision for Crossrail 2 before it is finalised, as it would be difficult to add it later. Also it's a long way to St Pancras from this station as the existing station is in the way, unless a route can be created across the old parcels deck or underneath the platforms.
 

The Planner

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Crossrail 2 will be on the east side of the existing station from what I hear, not on the HS2 side.
 

jopsuk

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Crossrail 2 will be on the east side of the existing station from what I hear, not on the HS2 side.

given as I understand it the CR2 station is to have Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras entrances, it rather has to be to the east
 

edwin_m

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given as I understand it the CR2 station is to have Euston and Kings Cross St Pancras entrances, it rather has to be to the east

That's my major concern with this layout. The accesses are part way along the train rather than the traditional position behind the buffer stops, so anyone wanting to go to the Tube has a longer walk and anyone for St Pancras will have to go south to the buffer stops before turning east, passing both stations and setting off down Euston Road or Brill Place.

Ideally CR2 should be integrated with the proposed Underground accesses, including an unpaid passage to St Pancras, rather than just an afterthought. If you believe TfL then CR2 will take huge numbers of passengers from HS2 so passenger flow is critical. A convenient walk to St Pancras important politically because it is the only link between the domestic and international high speed networks. So the station won't be seen as successful unless both are got right.
 
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