ATW Not interested in Soccer

[PHILIPE]

Yesterday, Sunday 6th, Wales v Israel took place at the Cardiff City Stadium with an attendance of 33,000 and crowd control measures in place at Grangetown and Cardiff Central. The normal station for the ground is Ninian Park but as there is no Sunday service on the City Line was closed so people were advised to use Grangetown instead.
What arrangements did ATW make to deal with the additional crowds - NONE as compared to a Rugby event where train arrangements are planned well in advance, it's as though ATW don't even know such an event as one the biggest games in Wales history was taking place.

However, via Twitter to ATW, supporter power won after a Tweet from Wrexham asked how are the thousands travelling from Wrexham going to get home but the excuse about Engineering work was spouted, but after further pressure and also enquiries regarding arrangements for people from the Valleys, the following took place hastily arranged at 2 days notice:-

19 40 Cardiff to Shrewsbury extended Chester and additional trains run to Merthyr, Aberdare, Rhymney, Ebbw Vale, Gloucester and Hereford !!! I don't know what the loadings were like though.

 

[Tetchytyke]

When was the match confirmed for the Sunday? Engineering works are usually planned 18 months in advance, it can take plenty of time to plan additional trains, the issue may well not be of Arriva's doing.

Also bear in mind that Wales were only getting 14,000 for their World Cup qualifiers, so I'm not surprises they didn't have the same plans in place as for the rugby.

 

[DeeGee]

I guess that the FAW would normally have to liaise with ATW and the other interested bodies with regards this sort of thing. I'd imagine ATW would have done some kind of cost analysis and decided that it wasn't worth the cost of putting on additional trains for supporters to bunk.

They plan engineering work well in advance, and they weren't to know when planning it that Wales would be doing so well and that Wales' ranks would be swelled by a bunch of Johnny-come-latelies.

 

[DarloRich]

surely Ninian Park isn't up to servicing that level of crowd?

I have bad memories of keeping very quiet in a very small group of Darlo fans there after a match on a Tuesday night in February 1996. We were surrounded by a larger number of slightly angry Cardiff fans after we won 2-0!

 

[PHILIPE]

When was the match confirmed for the Sunday? Engineering works are usually planned 18 months in advance, it can take plenty of time to plan additional trains, the issue may well not be of Arriva's doing.

Also bear in mind that Wales were only getting 14,000 for their World Cup qualifiers, so I'm not surprises they didn't have the same plans in place as for the rugby.

I'm not sure when the date was confirmed but I should imagine up to a year ago if not longer. I know all about Engineering work and the planning of it but the only Engineering Work which could have possibly affected anything was possibly after 22 00 beyond Hereford on the Marches route and this was overcome. Engineering work had little or no impact on the plans which eventually took place. This is not a one off as the same scant attention has been given to Soccer events in the past as ATW were reminded via Twitter..
It is not the duty of the FAW to liaise with the train company in advance.

 

[DarloRich]

It is not the duty of the FAW to liaise with the train company in advance.

Whilst not a duty it is bets practice for "events providers" to liaise with the railway providers to ensure the best possible service.

 

[PHILIPE]

surely Ninian Park isn't up to servicing that level of crowd?

I have bad memories of keeping very quiet in a very small group of Darlo fans there after a match on a Tuesday night in February 1996. We were surrounded by a larger number of slightly angry Cardiff fans after we won 2-0!

You mean the station, I presume. A couple of years ago trains did not call there on a Saturday after a match with people told to go to Grangetown.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I'm not sure when the date was confirmed but I should imagine up to a year ago if not longer.

Not necessarily; the match will have been scheduled for the weekend international period, but the exact date and time may not have been.

And beyond that, as I said, they normally only get about 15,000 for international football matches.

It is not the duty of the FAW to liaise with the train company in advance.

It is if they want customers of their event to be able to get home on public transport.

 

[PHILIPE]

And beyond that, as I said, they normally only get about 15,000 for international football matches.



.[/QUOTE]



With the recent successes in the qualifying in the European Championships, the support has rather risen than in the past. This game could have been billed on of the biggest in Wales history.

 

[northwichcat]

Whilst not a duty it is bets practice for "events providers" to liaise with the railway providers to ensure the best possible service.

Indeed. Although, unfortunately some operators see events as less significant than they actually finish up being. I'm aware of one event in a small town served by Northern Rail where Northern were informed of a special event but Northern saw it as insignificant until after the event when they had complaints about over 300 people turning up for a service and they had only allocated a single 142, with the next service not being for another hour.

The Wales international had thousands more attending than usual so it's possible ATW looked at it in a similar manner. As well as Wales being in a good position it appears to have been their first home competitive international at the weekend for quite a while, so recent previous attendance figures would have been for friendlies or competitive games on weekdays.

 

[175001]

Sadly, football will never have the interest of ATW, rugby on the other hand....

The dates of these qualifiers we're agreed on the same day as the draw took place, back in Feb 2014, so plenty of time.

And the majority of Wales football fans are based in the North, and lets just say there was a convoy back up the A470 last night when there could have been a few hundred on a loco hauled stock service back to Holyhead.....

 

[Greenback]

There are plenty of football fans in the south as well. I went along yesterday with some friends. The trains we used were well filled but not rammed, like there are on big match rugby days when a lot of people go to Cardiff for the atmosphere, and watch the game in a pub.

 

[DarloRich]

You mean the station, I presume. A couple of years ago trains did not call there on a Saturday after a match with people told to go to Grangetown.

yes the station - it seems very small and i doubt you would want large crowds and crowd control set up in that area.

 

[Tetchytyke]

With the recent successes in the qualifying in the European Championships, the support has rather risen than in the past. This game could have been billed on of the biggest in Wales history.

It could, but if they'd lost during the week it might not have been.

Sadly, football will never have the interest of ATW, rugby on the other hand....

A Wales Six Nations international will sell out the Millennium Stadium.

The football won't. I know it's different in this qualification group, but in the World Cup qualifiers Wales only got 11,800 for their Saturday game against Finland.

 

[ian959]

With the recent successes in the qualifying in the European Championships, the support has rather risen than in the past. This game could have been billed on of the biggest in Wales history.

With all due respect to the recent performances of Wales, had this not been the game that could possibly have seen them qualified for Euro 2016, the usual crowd of 15000 would have turned up and the sort of numbers that would have used the trains would be relatively easy to deal with. There is no comparison with a Wales v All Blacks rugby match at the Millenium Stadium...

 

[Greenback]

There is no comparison with a Wales v All Blacks rugby match at the Millenium Stadium...

Or Wales v any tier 1 nation, to be fair.

 

[craigybagel]

Yesterday, Sunday 6th, Wales v Israel took place at the Cardiff City Stadium with an attendance of 33,000 and crowd control measures in place at Grangetown and Cardiff Central. The normal station for the ground is Ninian Park but as there is no Sunday service on the City Line was closed so people were advised to use Grangetown instead.
What arrangements did ATW make to deal with the additional crowds - NONE as compared to a Rugby event where train arrangements are planned well in advance, it's as though ATW don't even know such an event as one the biggest games in Wales history was taking place.

From talking to passengers on the day, I believe most from the north were planning on staying the night since thanks to the engineering work and the late kick off they had no way home. There was though extra security at Cardiff and full crowd control at Grangetown.

With all due respect to the recent performances of Wales, had this not been the game that could possibly have seen them qualified for Euro 2016, the usual crowd of 15000 would have turned up and the sort of numbers that would have used the trains would be relatively easy to deal with. There is no comparison with a Wales v All Blacks rugby match at the Millenium Stadium...

Or Wales v any tier 1 nation, to be fair.

True on both counts. As shown by the sell out crowd the previous day for the Italy match. Normal Wales football matches are the same or even quieter than the Cardiff city matches that ATW have to cope with every fortnight. Even now its suddenly more popular, the football crowd was still less than half that of the rugby crowd.

 

[Greenback]

By the time it was realised that the attendance on Sunday would be more than was expected, it was probably too late to do much about it, even if ATW and the FAW had wanted to.

 

[PHILIPE]

By the time it was realised that the attendance on Sunday would be more than was expected, it was probably too late to do much about it, even if ATW and the FAW had wanted to.

But supporter power through after bombarding ATW on Twitter and won the day and additional trains were arranged at a late hour. Re staying overnight, 13 21 Cardiff to Holyhead yesterday was full and standing due to those who did.

 

[Greenback]

I didn't say they didn't do anything, just that not much could be done. I think it's good that additional trains were put on, but I dare say that things would have been better had it been obvious earlier that a much bigger crowd was going to turn up.

 

[PHILIPE]

Changing to Rugby now and Wales v Uruguay on Sunday September 20th, the tweeters are already pointing out to ATW that there is only a 2 hourly service on their route on a Sunday.

 

[Greenback]

ATW, through their website, have advised people to watch out for service alterations in connection with the RWC for some time now. It's about time that they clarified exactly what they are, or aren't, going to do for the matches in Cardiff.

 

[PHILIPE]

ATW, through their website, have advised people to watch out for service alterations in connection with the RWC for some time now. It's about time that they clarified exactly what they are, or aren't, going to do for the matches in Cardiff.

Still in the planning stage according to ATW reply to poster on Twitter. There is no mention of any Engineering Work affecting ATW on 20 September according to NRE Website. ATW don't usually publish the alterations !!!

 

[Johnuk123]

What's soccer ? is it similar to football.

 

[Greenback]

Still in the planning stage according to ATW reply to poster on Twitter. There is no mention of any Engineering Work affecting ATW on 20 September according to NRE Website. ATW don't usually publish the alterations !!!

Some visitors will have made arrangements around the RWC matches a long time ago. It isn't good enough that their actual travel to and from the game sis till unadvertised at this stage.

ATW, and the railway system in general, can and should do much better.

 

[Envoy]

Is the fact that ATW do not run a service on the City Line on Sundays, along with the fact that on the Vale of Glamorgan Coast Line (via Rhoose) that they only have one train every other hour, anything to do with having to pay staff more or simply lack of demand?

Anyway, when they do run the half hourly service on the City Line, many of the stations can only take 2 coach trains. (Ninian Park is much longer). Could ATW not run a shuttle from Central just to Ninian Park to help cope with the soccer fans? Would it not be possible for trains from west Wales that terminate/start in Cardiff to use Leckwith junction & call at Ninian Park en-route? What about those services coming down the Marches that terminate in Cardiff? Could they (from/to Holyhead) be extended/ started from Ninian Park when soccer tales place? What about the FGW services from Bristol that terminate in Cardiff, could these not also be extended/started at Ninian Park. After all, there are plenty of vacant sidings on the south side of the Canton depot for them to lay-over rather than their normal place on the north side of the main line.

 

[Greenback]

I suspect it's all about money. ATW are well know for their parsimonious nature!

 

[craigybagel]

I suspect it's all about money. ATW are well know for their parsimonious nature!

As opposed to every other TOC, who are of course all well known for splashing the cash on things when they have no contractual obligation to do so.

 

[PHILIPE]

Is the fact that ATW do not run a service on the City Line on Sundays, along with the fact that on the Vale of Glamorgan Coast Line (via Rhoose) that they only have one train every other hour, anything to do with having to pay staff more or simply lack of demand?

Anyway, when they do run the half hourly service on the City Line, many of the stations can only take 2 coach trains. (Ninian Park is much longer). Could ATW not run a shuttle from Central just to Ninian Park to help cope with the soccer fans? Would it not be possible for trains from west Wales that terminate/start in Cardiff to use Leckwith junction & call at Ninian Park en-route? What about those services coming down the Marches that terminate in Cardiff? Could they (from/to Holyhead) be extended/ started from Ninian Park when soccer tales place? What about the FGW services from Bristol that terminate in Cardiff, could these not also be extended/started at Ninian Park. After all, there are plenty of vacant sidings on the south side of the Canton depot for them to lay-over rather than their normal place on the north side of the main line.

Not very operationally practicable, I should, think turning back at Ninian Park. On this Sunday NO additional trains could have run from Cardiff Central to Ninian Park due to Engineering Work which closed platforms 3 and 4resulting in everything going west i/c Paddington to Swansea HSTs and terminating trains at Cardiff from the east all having to use Platform 7. Due to the need to reduce the number of trains, as an example, 10 20 Holyhead to Cardiff had to terminate Newport and run ECS to Canton later when path available and Ebbw Vales were diverted to Newport and on to Gloucester, the return trains doing the same thing in reverse. As for trains from Bristol extending Ninian Park, FGW crews don't know the route and trains from the east diverted would result in re-timings and loss of path. As another poster has already pointed out, Ninian Park is not large enough to accommodate passengers on such a scale.

 

[Greenback]

As opposed to every other TOC, who are of course all well known for splashing the cash on things when they have no contractual obligation to do so.

Rightly or wrongly, ATW do have a reputation in this area that does not extend to some other TOC's.