Will Bolton ever have a direct train to London?

[thealexweb]

But does it have the staff facilities though? And an area to restock the train whilst it is there? What about driver and staff diagrams would they need extra staff to facilitate this or would they have to crew change back at Manchester which leads me to ask would the extra dwell time for a staff changeover there be possible due to pathing of other trains? And to end all the Q's - would all this time taken not be better served to not just having people change at Manchester as they presently do now?

Does Blackpool North have any Virgin Trains facilities, not to my knowledge, yet they have made the daily services a success.

Some trains currently terminate at Manchester Piccadilly Platform 13 and 14, about one per hour, mainly Arriva Trains Wales. I am sure it would be possible given that Bolton is somewhat quieter.

And this concept that passengers love changing trains really has to stop, they do not. Will they still make the journey by train regardless? Probably, but not always.

 

[30907]

Going back to the question.

The only realistic possibility is marginal time services using sets that berth at Longsight overnight.

Latest possible would be the current 0835 MAN-EUS, and earliest return the 1700 down.

I would hesitate to load a 390 on P13/14 at 0830 though, even after rebuilding, so the morning train/s might have to be rather earlier!

It might be operationally easier to run from and to Preston.

 

[Clip]

Well, it's a relatively simple thing to do. Would there be capacity/facilities to stop at Oxford Road and Salford Crescent as well?

Simple in theory yes, but in practice maybe not so.

Does Blackpool North have any Virgin Trains facilities, not to my knowledge, yet they have made the daily services a success.

And how far does your knowledge extend too may I enquire? Also how successful are they?

Some trains currently terminate at Manchester Piccadilly Platform 13 and 14, about one per hour, mainly Arriva Trains Wales. I am sure it would be possible given that Bolton is somewhat quieter.

And how long till they form the next service or depart into a headshunt or whatever? Remember you could now be adding an extra 5-10 mins dwell into this hour so is there enough padding to allow this?

And this concept that passengers love changing trains really has to stop, they do not.

Who said they did? And who said they do not? Ill need some facts and figures quoted for such a bold statement.

Will they still make the journey by train regardless? Probably, but not always

Well if they are planning to go to London then Im guessing they would do whether its a change or not - Im unsure though how many people do put off going anywhere by train because they have to change(I know some do as I remember the Lewisham thread but that was mainly cos the bridge is closed.)

 

[D6975]

I tend to think that odd one or two a day services aren't really worth having, and that it would work better if time and money was spent improving the quality of connections.

They seem to work well elsewhere.
VTEC run to Skipton, Bradford, Harrogate, Hull.
All these services seem to be successful as they've not been nobbled, and the future commitment is there too, VTECs 5 car bimode IEPs are to service the ones not yet electrified. (as well as a few new places too). Some of these places are going to see their one a day change to a regular service pattern with IEP too. One a day perhaps the first step to a proper service?

 

[billio]

I have two points to make about this discussion.

First, there is a large population of about 1 million in North Manchester and it is poorly served with two mainline rail services. Bolton provides one of the two rail links and it should not be a debatable point that it needs reasonable services.

The second point is the obsession with direct trains to London rather than better network services offering cross-platform interchanges with other services. Would Bolton not be better served by frequent, fast regional services linking into other services at Piccadilly, Stockport and Preston.

For example a fast service from Blackpool through Preston, Bolton, Manchester, Stockport and on to Stoke and Birmingham.

 

[Howardh]

At the moment with the hold up of the tunnel it should be will Bolton ever see a train again :roll: !!

Yes, getting across platforms at Piccadilly from 13/14 is a burden, especially if the incoming train is late, but there's no way round that. When Bolton had more trains to Stockport, if on time an option was to get off there and if you had to change platforms a simple stroll under the bridge.

I'm warming to the idea of Bolton/Vic/round the back/Stockport on to London, but that could be diesel only.

But if the whole line was electric, and considering the bottleneck of Deansgate/Ox Rd/Picc, could trains do Salford Crescent > Stockport via Vic quicker even though it's a longer journey?

What is the current fastest through train from Sal Cresc to Stockport?

 

[Darren R]

I'm warming to the idea of Bolton/Vic/round the back/Stockport on to London, but that could be diesel only.

But if the whole line was electric, and considering the bottleneck of Deansgate/Ox Rd/Picc, could trains do Salford Crescent > Stockport via Vic quicker even though it's a longer journey?

What is the current fastest through train from Sal Cresc to Stockport?

Today a diesel-hauled railtour took the route you suggest from Salford Crescent to Stockport: it took 72 minutes (including a 13 minute layover at Victoria.) Salford Crescent to Stockport services currently take 26 minutes calling at all stations.

If fares were set at an attractively low level from Bolton then some passengers would catch a service that took an hour longer to meander around the eastern fringes of Manchester to get back to the WCML. However, I would venture to suggest that most would prefer to just change at Manchester Piccadilly (or Stockport, or Preston, or Wigan North Western) - depending on how big the potential saving to them is, and how much of a hurry they are in.

 

[dk1]

One thing that may be a tad off putting for Virgin & its regular passengers might be the using of 13/14 for the Euston bound services from the Bolton direction. It's a bit more of a hike especially for those turning up at the last minute so used to the next service being in the main shed. Quite trivial I know.

 

[Howardh]

One thing that may be a tad off putting for Virgin & its regular passengers might be the using of 13/14 for the Euston bound services from the Bolton direction. It's a bit more of a hike especially for those turning up at the last minute so used to the next service being in the main shed. Quite trivial I know.

Well, it wouldn't be every train and they run, what, 20 minutes apart from the main platforms! So taking one out to 13/14 means the worst wait is 40 if you can't be bothered crossing!

One negative of running through trains is passengers would miss the glorious retail opportunities provided by Piccadilly Station. Ahem. Mind you, on saying that, I love to pop up to the M+S on the top floor for cans of Belgian beer (ask) and a pair of tights (don't ask). Love the way they offer you a plastic glass to drink on the train .

 

[Class 170101]

Virgin Departures and arrivals from Longsight TMD
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/sea...7/0200-0159?stp=WVS&show=all&order=wtt&toc=VT

Therefore I suggest it would be possible for one train to start back at Bolton. If Manchester Oxford Road is a problem with it's platform lengths then simply don't serve it. In terms of commuters I would have said if you started the 07:00 Manchester Piccadilly to Euston back at Bolton it would be too early for most local commuters to Manchester (and there are earlier services still)

Likewise in the evening either the 17:00 or 18:00 from Euston, I would suggest it would be too late for most local commuters from Manchester.

 

[Senex]

Today a diesel-hauled railtour took the route you suggest from Salford Crescent to Stockport: it took 72 minutes (including a 13 minute layover at Victoria.)

A running-time of 59 minutes sounds very well padded even for the present dreadful route via Ashton Moss North.

Just suppose the Droylsden Jn to Denton Jn line were still available. Victoria to Stockport would be 11 miles 17 chains. With some improvement, and even with very pessimistic assumptions about the speeds that could be achieved at Droylsden Jn, Denton Jn, and Heaton Norris Jn, it looks as if a 15-minute time could have been possible. Not to bad at all. But they tore the line up, didn't they, and kept a much worse alternative. There is now some building on the path of the direct line, which presumably means it is lost for all time ...